Double Cardan or CV?

[oharris]

My '96 AWD has a vibration and some slop in the front driveline. The '96 has a double cardan style where my '97 has a CV. Is the 97+ an upgrade or is it just cheaper to manufacture? Would it be worth it to convert? Is either style rebuildable? I know some of them are not.

 

[SWIGIN]

The double cardan is my favorite by far and they are both rebuildable.

 

[gmanpaint]

Ford switched to the CV style T-case, shortly after they switched to the front Live axle. You can find both styles in a 97, with the CV style in the last half of 97. Both have the VSS in the tail housing I believe, but the VSS CV T-case is hard to find. In 98 they did away with the VSS sensor and use the rear ABS tone ring for the speedo signal.

You can use either T-case (DC or CV) in your rig, as long as you have the T-case VSS setup. (either you have the t-case vss sensor or you don't)

If you don't have the VSS sensor in the T-case, you need to stay with the CV style or do some modifications to run the DC style.

Are you sure the vibration is not a bad U-joint or a worn Hub? The front diff bushings & trans mount, can also cause this, if bad.

 

[koda2000]

The CV style is rebuild-able (IDK about the DC style). Dorman makes a replacement CV joint. It's fairly easy to install the new CV joint. I've done it on my '00 Mountaineer AWD. I bought the Dorman repair kit off eBay for around $80 last year. As far as I could determine last year Dorman (PN 932-201) was the only source for the repair kit. There seems to be more people offering the repair kit now, but I suspect Dorman may be the manufacturer. The kit I installed looked identical to the one pictured in the eBay link below.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Explor...ash=item23498aed12:g:EqQAAOSwqu9Uz-dg&vxp=mtr

Prices vary greatly.

 

[imp]

The CV style is rebuild-able (IDK about the DC style). Dorman makes a replacement CV joint. It's fairly easy to install the new CV joint. I've done it on my '00 Mountaineer AWD. I bought the Dorman repair kit off eBay for around $80 last year. As far as I could determine last year Dorman (PN 932-201) was the only source for the repair kit. There seems to be more people offering the repair kit now, but I suspect Dorman may be the manufacturer. The kit I installed looked identical to the one pictured in the eBay link below.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Explor...ash=item23498aed12:g:EqQAAOSwqu9Uz-dg&vxp=mtr

Prices vary greatly.

@koda2000
In my experience, the Double Cardans wear out sooner than the CV type. Usually the centering-ball and socket are found to be wallowed-out. Especially when used in an application where the drive angle is constantly changing. On my 2004, both driveshafts operate with a fixed angle, nothing bounces up and down (except the vehicle!). imp

 

[SWIGIN]

Double Cardans do not wear out faster then a CV. My 79 Bronco has 250,000 miles and still has it's original front DC. I have replaced the rear DC maybe 3 times in the past 18 years but that's with over 400hp and a fairly steep drive shaft angle.

I assume we are just talking front drive shafts here and since I have never wore one out or broke one I'm going with DC.

They are rebuildable as I said above But normally if the seals are good and you lube it from time to time the center yoke (centering ball) will out last the u joints.

I don't think a mainly street driven EX needs a DC to be reliable but if we are talking major HP and abuse the Dc is a better choice.

 

[SWIGIN]

If you are lifting anything really, the DC is better since it splits the DS angle into 2 u joints instead of one or one CV.

Many drive shaft vibration problems when lifting a vehicle can be fixed with a DC. That's the reason they were used in the front of a lot of older trucks and in the rear of things with very short rear drive shafts. They smooth out the harsh angles at the transfer case.

 

[imp]

@SWIGIN
"Double Cardans do not wear out faster then a CV."

OK, sure, but what type of CV?? There are now half a dozen designs operating out there, and personally a couple of them look more attractive, to me, than DCs. imp

 

[Centaurus5.0]

Both styles are rebuild-able.

I was in the exact same position years ago. Had a 96 and 97 AWD. The 96 had a vibration around 70mph and the 97 didn't. Bought a new OEM front DC shaft and it was still there. Ended up converting the 97 to 2wd. Swapped the 97' TC and CV driveshaft into the 96 and the vibration disappeared.

True Story.

 

[SWIGIN]

@SWIGIN


OK, sure, but what type of CV?? There are now half a dozen designs operating out there, and personally a couple of them look more attractive, to me, than DCs. imp

Show me one that has as many years and abuse on it as my DC and that deals with DS angle problems like a DC and I'll look into them.

Like I said, a stock EX does not need the benefits from a DC. But you can't say they ware out faster because they clearly do not.

 

[gmanpaint]

On a 1st gen, the front dif / shaft articulates, and benefits from the DC.

On 2nd + gens, the front dif is stationary, and any movement comes from the engine & trans mount rubber, and the shaft barely moves up/down. The CV shaft is fine for stock set ups.

As far as abuse goes...

Add HP or torque in the equation, and I would trust a solid grease less U-joint over a CV any day of the week.

 

[boominXplorer]

I'm at 15k miles on my double cardon rebuild and no issues. Only reason it was rebuilt is I had to change the flange going to the t-case. I run it in my ranger with the v8 swap and 4" superlift and its always spinning. It started life as a 1st gen explorer shaft also.

 

[imp]

On a 1st gen, the front dif / shaft articulates, and benefits from the DC.

On 2nd + gens, the front dif is stationary, and any movement comes from the engine & trans mount rubber, and the shaft barely moves up/down. The CV shaft is fine for stock set ups.

As far as abuse goes...

Add HP or torque in the equation, and I would trust a solid grease less U-joint over a CV any day of the week.

@gmanpaint

In 1967, Corvette introduced a 427 cu. in. eng. as an option, with tri-power. Very nearly every one experienced failures of the rear half-shaft U-joints. Chevy had used typical Spicer-series 1310 or 1315 joints, which Spicer clearly speced out maximum torque of something like 1200 ft. lbs. With 4.11 gears, and even with a close-ratio 4-speed, the axle torque "seen" by the joints was as much as 4200 ft. lbs. and more! Slight design oversight! imp

 

[gmanpaint]

@gmanpaint

In 1967, Corvette introduced a 427 cu. in. eng. as an option, with tri-power. Very nearly every one experienced failures of the rear half-shaft U-joints. Chevy had used typical Spicer-series 1310 or 1315 joints, which Spicer clearly speced out maximum torque of something like 1200 ft. lbs. With 4.11 gears, and even with a close-ratio 4-speed, the axle torque "seen" by the joints was as much as 4200 ft. lbs. and more! Slight design oversight! imp

That's why I only use solid cross, cold forged grease less U-joints. They have held up to any and all abuse I throw at them with high rpm's in low range, clawing away up steep and rocky terrain. Do I carry spares? You bet I do, stuff happens on the trails, but I have yet to need them. I'm sure I just jinked the hell out of myself. LOL!!

If the day comes that I can't stop breaking them on the hobby rig, I will buy CTM's and forget about them for good.

I ran a 600 HP Pontiac 400 with a Hurst 4 sp, a built TH 400 W/3000 stall,, then a 2 speed powerglide, 373 & 411 gears. I twisted a shaft tube twice, but the solid cross shaft U-joints held up.

These comments and beliefs are just based on my personal experiences, and my opinions, nothing else. Maybe I have just been lucky, but I tend to stay, with what I know works for me.

 

[imp]

@gmanpaint

Thanks for answering! Had a hunch you been there and done it, like me. I ran a 430 in. Lincoln in two different Falcons, '63 and '64 models, with T-10 both times. Light enough cars, trans OK. My new '65 Mustang came with the top-loader. Later, I made an adaptor to fit B/W H.D. overdrive behind it, daily driver, cross country ride w/4.56s, still got pretty good mileage. If you care to see, I send some pics. I did all my really good stuff before I got old, dammit! imp