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Explorer Addict
- Joined
- December 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,859
- Reaction score
- 17
- City, State
- Vermillion, SD
- Year, Model & Trim Level
- 99 XLT V8 AWD
once again, this is NOT perpectual motion, just like a typical supercharger or turbocharger are not perpetual motion. the energy to run the electric motor is coming off the engine, from an alternator, then stored in batteries, then discharged into the motor to create the boost. now, the engine would produce more power than the system needed to run because.........you guessed it(actually you probably did not) the energy for this whole process is coming from the GASOLINE, so more air + more gas = more power, it is not science fiction, it is not defying laws of physics, it is the same damn thing as all other forced induction methods, the only difference is it uses electricity.
also, if designed properly it would not add any drag to the incoming air stream, why is that? because the air intake can be designed so that flow through the supercharger is only possible when the super charger is making boost. you have a few one way valves and the engine is either running entirely n/a or when the supercharger kicks on that valve will hold against the pressure made from the super charger and the valve on that part of the intake will open up to let air flow from the charger into the system. its not that complicated, just because you do not understand the supporting principles does not mean it defies Newton's laws, and FYI, we are sooooo far past Newton's laws. catch up man. physics and engineering have come a long way, an electric supercharger is no amazing feat. the issue with it is the batteries are expensive, and there are far better ways to get the job done.
Alright kid, you have probably taken a couple engineering courses and think you are brilliant. C'mon kid, I asked you to put up or shut up. You think it is possible, break out some math. You claim in your profile you were an engineering student, I am gonna assume you made it past at least some freshman level classes, you aught to know calculus and university level physics. Not much should be required beyond that. Since you are apparently not smart enough to understand what you are trying to argue against, I was using perpetual motion to describe the process here. I am not saying you need some kind of novelty desktop item that mimics perpetual motion.
The problem here is that you have loss of energy as mechanical energy is changed to electrical energy then back into mechanical energy then into air pressure. You cannot just keep adding air and fuel to an engine and get unlimited power first off, second off, for an electric motor to make the amount of torque it needs to push enough air to make up for the energy it is using to run, it needs more energy than you can make on it's boosted air. Next, I would take a look at supercharger design before you try and "educate" me about whether or not they are a restrictive element. A supercharger does not need to flow much air when it is not spinning, since they are only not spinning at an idle for a normal supercharger setup. Superchargers don't need to be designed to flow air efficiently at high RPM without the compressor running, because the compressor is running at high RPM.
Now yes, the energy from the whole process is coming from gasoline. A naturally aspirated engine uses part of that energy to draw in air and fuel, and part of that energy to pump exhaust out. Rotation is a side effect of this process. On a forced induction engine, even more of that energy is used for either pumping or rotation of the engine. Now, with a turbocharger it is ok, since most of the energy is waste energy in the form of heat and exhaust pressure, although there is some energy lost through this process as the engine has to do more work to pump air out to drive the exhaust supercharger (turbocharger for you kids). With a belt driven supercharger, there is a direct mechanical process where the rotation of the engine drives the pump in the supercharger, whether it be screws, a turbine, or whatever, so there is little lost energy in the process of transferring mechanical energy from the engine to the supercharger. The supercharger is subject to drag and needs to work to draw air in, so that is wasted energy, but the engine makes up for that because it is able to run at higher pressures. Go on, google it. Belt driven superchargers have a horrible amount of parasitic HP loss. They are able to overcome this due to the efficiency of the operation and the fact that the engine can sustain the torque required to drive them.
Now we get to electric superchargers. First we generate electricity off the rotating mass of the engine. This results in wasted energy in the form of friction, heat, and RF generated by running the alternator. Next we run that electricity up to the supercharger, very VERY slight energy loss to heat and RF generation. Then we have to spin a motor, more heat, friction and RF generation, so that we can pump air and still suffer from the same energy wasting sources of the mechanical superchargers. Now, lets go with an M90 with a reasonably mild pulley on an engine like a sploder's Any idea how much torque you need to pump 541 cfm of air at 5-7 psi? Hint, you may want to look into shop air compressors to get an idea. Well? Ok, now once you get that figured out, why don't you find a motor that delivers that much torque and see how much it takes to run said motor. Ok, what do you want to upsize that alternator to to run that monster? Now how much mechanical loss is there to run that alternator with a full current draw from that motor? Sure, you can run it on batteries, but then you have a limited supply of power and motors that are still going to get nice and toasty in a hurry. What are you gonna do about the heat that monster motor is going to make? Steam driven generator to supplement your electrical needs? Now, you want to tell me where you stand on the physics of all this? Or are you gonna hide behind the internet smart guy act and just try and call me a fool again because you are too lazy to work that gray matter that is driving your fingers to spit out these idiotic responses?
Finally we come to pre-compressed air superchargers. Well, really nothing wrong with them aside from the size of the tanks and the volumetric inefficiency of carrying the compressed air. Other than that, a good system. I actually like the regen braking systems though, would make a pre-compressed air supercharger system pretty practical in a way. Would even help slightly on the electric supercharger end, if you can deal with the other issues it has.
Next time you want to argue with me, I suggest you go back and finish that engineering degree before you think you know what you are talking about. Then again, if you did finish it, you wouldn't be arguing right now.