Engine Codes and Running issue help

[five0hfox]

Was wondering if you guys could help me diagnose my problems.

First off, ever since I've had it, the CEL will come on after driving on the highway for almost an hour. Since, it has started to come on sooner and sooner when on the highway. But it will only stay on for a few minutes then turn off. Anyways, it started idling rough and now the CEL will come on when driving around town for a few minutes and turn off.

I can get a video of the idle if needed. Plugs and wires were replaced in the fall, fuel filter was replaced when it started idling rough, along with a bottle of fuel injector cleaner. Didn't help any.

I recorded the CEL flashes, but I'm not entirely sure on them. This was a KOEO

http://youtu.be/z0BW7ZC-d9U

Also, when you're on the highway under load, it has a rattle sound. What might cause this? I'm guessing it needs head work? I ran Sea Foam through it a while back and didn't affect it any.

Any help to getting this thing running better would be greatly appreciated, as I'm selling it here in about a month. I already know I'm not getting my money back out of it that I've put into it, but with it running poor I'd get even less.

 

[five0hfox]

I think it's 16 and 186, maybe 18 too? I'm new at this. I've only done it one other time on my Mustang.

If 186 is one of them, it says "186
Injector Pulse Width Higher Than Expected (With BARO Sensor)
C

Injector Pulse Width Higher Or Mass Air Flow Lower Than Expected (Less"

So maybe try cleaning my MAF?

 

[MrShorty]

You must have blinked for a couple of flashes. I got

KOEO 116
repeated
separator pulse at about 0:40
CM 181 and 186
repeated

KOEO 116 is usually operator error from the engine being cold. The PCM expects to see the engine fully warmed up for the KOEO test. You might warm the engine up and repeat the test to make sure this code goes away. If you know the engine was warmed up, then you might investigate this one further.

CM 181 and 186 are both set by the O2 sensor and basically indicate that the PCM thinks the engine is running lean. The PCM is trying to get the mixture to get richer, but it has decided that it can't, and so it triggers the CEL and the stored codes.

Lean O2 sensor codes can be among the most difficult to diagnose. Here are a few suggestions.

1) You might try running the KOER test. Because codes generated during the KOER test are hard fault (here and now faults), they can be easier to diagnose from the KOER test. If it passes the KOER test, that will suggest some kind of intermittent fault which can make it even more difficult to diagnose.
2) By the book, a fuel pressure test is usually the first thing suggested. It only takes a few minutes to test fuel pressure with a pressure gauge.
3) Check for any vacuum leaks.
4) Clean the MAF (we have instructions around here somewhere, I think they are in the useful threads forum).
5) A lot of people (even professionals) will just replace the O2 sensors if they are old as a maintenance item.

 

[five0hfox]

You must have blinked for a couple of flashes. I got

KOEO 116
repeated
separator pulse at about 0:40
CM 181 and 186
repeated

KOEO 116 is usually operator error from the engine being cold. The PCM expects to see the engine fully warmed up for the KOEO test. You might warm the engine up and repeat the test to make sure this code goes away. If you know the engine was warmed up, then you might investigate this one further.

CM 181 and 186 are both set by the O2 sensor and basically indicate that the PCM thinks the engine is running lean. The PCM is trying to get the mixture to get richer, but it has decided that it can't, and so it triggers the CEL and the stored codes.

Lean O2 sensor codes can be among the most difficult to diagnose. Here are a few suggestions.

1) You might try running the KOER test. Because codes generated during the KOER test are hard fault (here and now faults), they can be easier to diagnose from the KOER test. If it passes the KOER test, that will suggest some kind of intermittent fault which can make it even more difficult to diagnose.
2) By the book, a fuel pressure test is usually the first thing suggested. It only takes a few minutes to test fuel pressure with a pressure gauge.
3) Check for any vacuum leaks.
4) Clean the MAF (we have instructions around here somewhere, I think they are in the useful threads forum).
5) A lot of people (even professionals) will just replace the O2 sensors if they are old as a maintenance item.

Ah, yes I forgot to warm it up before testing. I don't think I blinked, I'm just not very good at reading the flashes yet. That was the second time I'd done it in about 5 years lol

I was reading a while back about intermittent CEL when on the highway and they all seemed to be o2 sensor related.

I've read about cleaning the maf, however some say use maf cleaner, some say carb cleaner? Would I be best of buying maf cleaner or do you think carb cleaner would work (already have some)

I need to read on the KOER test, but should I try to do the test when the light is on? (because of course it can't just stay on.. it's on for a few minutes at a time.)

I bet if the o2 sensors are trying to correct an incorrect lean reading, that would explain the 12-13mpg in town and 17mpg on the highway.. However, most likely not the cause of the rattle noise I assume?

 

[MrShorty]

I've read about cleaning the maf, however some say use maf cleaner, some say carb cleaner? Would I be best of buying maf cleaner or do you think carb cleaner would work (already have some)

I don't know. The main stipulations for a good MAF cleaner are 1) cleans the filaments without damaging them and 2) doesn't leave any residue behind. Some people worry that carb cleaner will leave some deposits behind that will make it like you didn't clean it, or make it get dirty sooner.

I need to read on the KOER test, but should I try to do the test when the light is on? (because of course it can't just stay on.. it's on for a few minutes at a time.)

I don't think I'd wait. What you want to see is if the fault is always present so that it will be seen during the KOER test, or if the fault is intermittent.

However, most likely not the cause of the rattle noise I assume?

maybe, maybe not. The most common "rattle" at highway speeds and under load is engine ping. This is common on this engine and is often related to a dirty MAF or a small vacuum leak through the lower intake manifold gasket (both cause a slight lean condition that causes the pinging). Cleaning the MAF and tightening the lower intake bolts often fixes this.

 

[five0hfox]

Thanks, I'll do the KOER test and make sure I get a KOEO test with it warmed up and see what I get. Also going to pick up a can of MAF cleaner then at the parts store.

 

[five0hfox]

I cleaned my MAF last night. While it does run smoother, it still feels like I have a slight miss. I'm going to pull my spark plugs tomorrow and check spark/color. The CEL came on while driving, however this time was only on for about a minute tops. Usually its on a few minutes before it goes off.

I warmed the engine up and ran the KOEO and KOER codes.

KOEO I still got 181 and 186, no longer saw 116

KOER I got 536 for the BOO switch, but that's my fault. I didn't press the brake pedal. Other than that it was all 11's.

Also did the cylinder balance test? Came back with 11's.

Sounds like the next step after checking plugs (no more than 3k on them though) will be fuel pressure.

I was playing around on ALLDATA at school for the first time (normally use shop key5 for stuff) and saw that they have a step by step trouble shooting thing. I'm going to try to print it off. Any help on here would still be appreciated as I'm new to diagnosing stuff, replacing parts is the easy part lol.

Here's video of the CEL if you wouldn't mind double checking my numbers? I'll post the other once it uploads

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8WHO3M1wv8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tvwzq_PpNs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[five0hfox]

These plugs have no more than 5000 miles on them. Right plug is new. If it makes a difference, they've had two bottles of injector cleaner used with them. (not simultaneously)

These first two are the #1 plug

#2 plug, almost looks like sand???

#3 plug had junk on the threads and crusty stuff like #2, but much finer.

 

[five0hfox]

bump??

 

[MrShorty]

I'm not real good at reading spark plugs, basically all I can do is look at the page included in most Chilton's/Haynes and offer an opinion.

One obnoxious question, are you counting cylinders correctly? My first thought was that those two may have a little coolant fouling, but coolant fouling is more often associated with #5 and #6 cylinders (middle and rear cylinders on the driver's side). In these cases, it comes from a loose lower intake manifold allowing coolant/oil into the cylinders. Even if it really is #2 and #3 (middle an rear passenger side), I might suggest tightening the lower intake manifold, just to be sure.

I might suggest a compression check to make sure the valves/rings are good.

Whatever is going on, it looks like something is getting into #2 and #3 that shouldn't be.

 

[five0hfox]

I'm not real good at reading spark plugs, basically all I can do is look at the page included in most Chilton's/Haynes and offer an opinion.

One obnoxious question, are you counting cylinders correctly? My first thought was that those two may have a little coolant fouling, but coolant fouling is more often associated with #5 and #6 cylinders (middle and rear cylinders on the driver's side). In these cases, it comes from a loose lower intake manifold allowing coolant/oil into the cylinders. Even if it really is #2 and #3 (middle an rear passenger side), I might suggest tightening the lower intake manifold, just to be sure.

I might suggest a compression check to make sure the valves/rings are good.

Whatever is going on, it looks like something is getting into #2 and #3 that shouldn't be.

In that case you're correct, it would be 5 and 6. So it seems as though I will now tighten the lower manifold and replace the o2 sensors. If that doesn't solve my issue I will then check the fuel pressure.

Do you think I should replace the sparkplugs or just clean them off with something like 800 grit and blast them off with that maf cleaner I bought?

 

[MrShorty]

Do you think I should replace the sparkplugs or just clean them off with something like 800 grit and blast them off with that maf cleaner I bought?

I'm not sure. On the one hand, spark plugs are cheap. On the other, they are a fairly simple piece, with a simple purpose (create a gap for the spark to jump and ignite the gasoline). There isn't much to go wrong except for cracking, age, and fouling. If they aren't cracked and aren't old, it would sure be tempting to get them cleaned up and put them back in.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[five0hfox]

I don't have access to my book right now, but where are those damn things? I can't seem to see them.

 

[MrShorty]

but where are those damn things?

I'm sorry to be dense, but where are what things? I'm not certain what things we are talking about.

 

[five0hfox]

Sorry, The lower intake manifold bolts.

I just did a search on here. Looks like I have to pull my valve covers to get to them?

 

[MrShorty]

Shouldn't have to pull valve covers just to tighten the bolts. The lower intake manifold bolts are right there in the valley between the valve covers next to the fuel injectors/fuel rail, underneath the upper intake. the set on the passenger side shouldn't be hard to get to. the set on the driver's side are a little harder to see because the upper intake 'curls' over that way. But the bolts are below the gaps in the upper intake, so they shouldn't be hard to get to. The hardest ones to get to are the ones on the front of the manifold (one is underneath the thermostat housing outlet), and the ones at the back of the manifold, because you have to wrap your arm around the intake along the firewall to really get in to them.

 

[five0hfox]

Alright thanks. I'll look again when I have more light. I did a search and I saw some things about removing the valve covers, I thought that sounded odd.

 

[five0hfox]

Ahah! I have spotted a few bolts. Now I just need to find all of them so I can tighten them in the order my book says. After I tighten them I'll post again if it helps or not.

 

[five0hfox]

I tightened the bolts, that helped slightly. Then I changed my plugs and finally changed the #6 plug and wire (didn't do it when I did them in the fall because I was in a hurry and it looked to be a pain in the ass. That one turned out to be just as easy as the rest) My number 5 plug's gap was almost bridged from junk, I'm guessing this is the cylinder that was misfiring.

It idles extremely smooth now; no more miss. It also feels like it has more power than it ever has since I bought it in Jan '10. I'm also hoping that I will get better gas mileage, as the last tank (which ran the worst yet) I got 10mpg Took it out on the highway and really got on it, still has some pinging but not as bad and only seems to do it if I really step on it. I'm also running 89 octane because that's what Casey's sells for the same price as 87 every where else.

When I got on the highway and stepped on it the CEL came on for about 3 seconds then went off. Maybe o2 sensor related as I haven't changed them yet. I noticed the ones in there right now are Bosch so they aren't originals (I'd hope not with 210k on the clock lol) Think I might pull the battery cable to clear codes and get the CEL to come on then do a KOEO and see what's in the memory. Does that sound like a good plan?

 

[MrShorty]

The only thing I would probably add would be to pull codes before you erase memory so you can compare the before memory dump with the after memory dump, just in case that adds any information to the diagnosis.