Flex fuel conversion

[aldive]

What is the difference in a flex fuel vehicle and a non ff one?

What would have to be changed/modded to make the switch?

Thanks ....

 

[TheJMan]

I'd assume you are talking about flex fuel as the use of E85 or gasoline fuels.

I've read that the biggest difference is that the fuel system is constructed with different materials due to the higher content of ethanol. Also, the engine computer must be retuned to allow for the higher content of ethanol and therefore a much more rich engine program. (Ethanol has a lower A/F ratio).

I would imagine that newer vehicles wouldn't have too much of a problem with high-ethanol fuels as they are designed to withstand fuel with a lower ethanol content in it anyway. Perhaps a reflash of the engine computer with a different program and a new set of injectors if the stock ones don't inject enough fuel.

Also keep in mind that E85 decreases your gas mileage by 20-40%. That right there might even negate the initial lower cost.

 

[spindlecone]

ETOH is extreamly corrosive, the above is correct, entirly diff fuel system componants.

 

[BrooklynBay]

A friend of mine has a flexible fuel Taurus. He said that a lot of parts in the fuel system are made out of stainless steel to prevent corrosion.

 

[Creager]

Also the pistons are different.

 

[stang99x]

The differences are in the parts that the fuel touches only. I actually considered swapping my supercharged navigator to this for lower operating temperatures. The E85 is more corrosive, and requires teflon coating fuel system components from the tank, lines, different pump and filter, and different injectors. Thats it. But the cost to convert is rediculous, since no aftermarket straight swap kit exists. YOu'd have to buy it all from ford and then you'd be better off with a new car!

 

[exploded99]

Don't flex fuel vehicles also have a fuel type sensor so the computer knows what type of fuel you are running and can adjust its engine management accordingly? I thought the computer ran the engine differently based on fuel type.

 

[BrooklynBay]

That sensor is also important, just like stainless steel parts which don't corrode from the flexible fuels.

 

[stang99x]

Yes it does also have that sensor. And it does allow for the computer setting adjustments to allow for the burn of the E85. I actually ran a 1/4 tank of it in a nonE85 vehicle to see what would happen. Nothing happened.

 

[exploded99]

Brave man.

Did you notice a power drop, hard starting, anything? I know cars on 100% ethanol are very hard to start in cold weather - the cars need gasoline or a mix to start. Have not heard how that is addressed with the E85, or if needs to be.

Maybe we can get somebody to try E85 and acetone.

 

[shizon]

Converting to E85 doesn't make sense right now. Assuming you could convert for free, your gas mileage would go down so far that the slightly lower price for E85 doesn't justify it. The biggest benefit is the higher octane rating. Less btu's, but more octane.

Stoich for E85 is approximately 9:1 (depends on who you ask) as opposed to 14.7:1 for gas. You can bet on running a little richer than that for WOT operation. That's quite a bit more E85 needed to produce the same power as gas and with prices only about $.20 cheaper in my area, it doesn't equate. Now as E85 becomes more mass produced E85 might become worth it.

 

[termdoc]

All of this talk of using E-85 had me thinking. We run it exclusively in our Midwest Modified dirt track race car. It has an aluminum gas tank, regular Goodyear fuel lines, a stock mechanical fuel pump and a Holley carb. that has ONLY been rejetted for a richer mixture. I started running it in my '04 Chevy 3500 van with the 6.0 liter motor (not a flex fuel vehicle) and I noticed an improvement in performance IMMEDIATELY. After roughly 2000 miles of use I haven't noticed much, if any, decrease in fuel mileage. I started running it in my '02 Chrysler with the 3.5ltr and have experienced the same results. In addition I run it about 70/30 - E85 to gas - in my '97 Explorer and again, the same results. The performance is well worth the 2 to 3 mpg reduction I've experienced in all three of my vehicles and it's about 45 to 50 cents a gallon cheaper here in the Mid-West.
I forgot to add that in the race car I haven't noticed any corrosion anywhere in the fuel system or carb. and it's been in the car continuously for years and it's taken apart and inspected regularly.

 

[Stic-o]

the biggest differance I have heard is that there is no Aluminum in the motor. E85 will eat it up. Other then that I don't think there is that much differance. You have to remember though that there is only about 15% of Gasoline in E85. The biggest reason? So people will not drink it

 

[Rick]

Yeah, Everclear would go broke if you could buy the same thing for $2 a gallon at the pump

 

[stang99x]

Exploded, I noticed a drop in performance after about 75 miles of highway driving. There was a noticable lag towards the end of the tank at WOT. It was, to say the least, a bad idea.

Termdoc, like russian roulette? I can tell you this, sooner or later, the game is over. And there is no forewarning. You better get all of your nonflex vehilces checked out, before each one craps out.

 

[EMG7895]

The added gas slightely slows corrosion, but over time it will destroy the seals.

 

[termdoc]

I'd also like to add that I work on petroleum equipment, ie; gas pumps submersible pumps, and petroleum piping and there is absolutely no difference in the equipment I install and maintain. There is no issue with leaking gaskets or seals or performance degradation over time. Lets talk in facts, boys, not "maybes" or "could" or "mights".

 

[spindlecone]

I'd also like to add that I work on petroleum equipment, ie; gas pumps submersible pumps, and petroleum piping and there is absolutely no difference in the equipment I install and maintain. There is no issue with leaking gaskets or seals or performance degradation over time. Lets talk in facts, boys, not "maybes" or "could" or "mights".

Than give us the facts, not factoids, tell us about seals, corrosion, etc.
Share your knowledge.

 

[termdoc]

Factoids...Some may think that I've responded to this forum only to gain some sort of notoriety or spread some sort of rumor only to benefit from the rumor somehow.......
Fact:
I've been running E85 in a basically stock motor for five years running with no noticable corrosion or ill effects
Fact:
The same motor puts out about 290 - 300 horse on a dyno with premium unleaded gasoline - Runs at about 340 horse on E85
Fact:
Running E85 in ANY computer controlled fuel injected engine will automatically adjust itself as to fuel mixture to throttle positon as needed.
Fact:
I've personally used E85 in my vehicles and have only noticed a positive change in performance horsepower wise - I did notice my mileage went down from 19.4mpg to 19.3mpg in my Chrysler - my only vehicle with an onboard computer thing.

I'm not sure that using the term 'Factoid" was correct in evaluating my previos posts, but thanks for reading them anyhow.

 

[spindlecone]

Thx for the info, lotta facts about flexfuel. lotta factoids in the media these days