Front end groan and vibration

[PEAR0119]

Hi guys, My dad has a 2003 Explorer 4.6L, and there is a nasty noise that all of a sudden appeared in the front end.

The noise/vibration is predominately heard at highway speeds when not accelerating nor slowing down, but in that happy medium between the two. The noise started all of a sudden and had no warning that something was wrong before. He has about 95K miles on the truck now and we know that the wheel bearing were going bad a while ago, so we ordered up 4 new bearing all around. Could the bearings be causing this noise and vibration? I had wheel bearings go bad on other cars but it doesn't sound the same as this.

Its very hard to describe what the noise sounds like, but almost sounds like a binding noise. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that we threw it into 4x4 at around 60mph and the noise is definitely louder and vibrations are more severe. We are hoping that it is wheel bearings as in 4x4 is putting more stress on the bearing. Could this be related to transfer case of front diff?

Any info would be helpful, as he is now driving my X until we get time to fix his up.

 

[fusseli]

When was the last time you changed the fluid in the t-case or front diff?

 

[PEAR0119]

I don't think he has ever changed it. But there was work done on the front diff a couple years ago which was around 30k miles ago, so I am assuming the the dealer filled it back up with new fluid. As for the T-case I don't think it has ever been changed. I have told him several times to change it but I doubt that he has ever gotten that done.

 

[fusseli]

I don't think he has ever changed it. But there was work done on the front diff a couple years ago which was around 30k miles ago, so I am assuming the the dealer filled it back up with new fluid. As for the T-case I don't think it has ever been changed. I have told him several times to change it but I doubt that he has ever gotten that done.

Fluids are a good and cheap place place to start, both are easy to check at the fill plugs, t-case is even easier since it has a drain plug also. I'm no pro but the sound you describe does sound like a t-case or front diff issue. Though I could be wrong. Are the tires regularly rotated? Maybe they are worn uneven and auto 4x4 is trying to kick in, or has been turning on and wearing out the t-case or something.

 

[PEAR0119]

Are the tires regularly rotated? Maybe they are worn uneven and auto 4x4 is trying to kick in, or has been turning on and wearing out the t-case or something.

Ahh, forgot about that. The rear tires are pretty much toast, like they are almost completely bald whereas the fronts have about 1/4 - 1/2 of the tread life left. He bought new tires that are going on when we change out the wheel bearings.

 

[fusseli]

Ahh, forgot about that. The rear tires are pretty much toast, like they are almost completely bald whereas the fronts have about 1/4 - 1/2 of the tread life left. He bought new tires that are going on when we change out the wheel bearings.

Bingo. Hopefully no real damage has been done yet. You might change the t-case fluid anyways, 2qts of standard ATF is maybe $6.

 

[PEAR0119]

but if we put it into 4x4 high on the highway the noise is still there, unless the traction control is doing some funny stuff when in 4x4 high with the tires worn the way they are.

 

[fusseli]

but if we put it into 4x4 high on the highway the noise is still there, unless the traction control is doing some funny stuff when in 4x4 high with the tires worn the way they are.

Not surprised! With worn tires your t-case will be in 4-hi all the time due to the automatic function. Turning on 4-hi would keep the front end engaged just the same. This will be binding your t-case since it thinks tires are slipping, which they aren't, and tries to spin them at the same rate. The different diameter of tires is going to force the t-case to rotate and grind the clutch when it wants to be locked in. Even tire wear and regular rotations is critical to the life of a transfer case in the 3rd-gen and up explorer/mountaineer.

 

[PEAR0119]

That makes a lot of sense. Now, it is to try and convince him that's whats happening.

My concern is trying to sell it to him that, that little bit of tire diameter would cause the system to do that.

 

[fusseli]

That makes a lot of sense. Now, it is to try and convince him that's whats happening.

My concern is trying to sell it to him that, that little bit of tire diameter would cause the system to do that.

Ford designed them within some kind of tolerance, yes. This is so you can turn corners, etc. with 4x4 engaged. The system is designed for a match in tire diameter on all four corners though. A pair of bald + a pair of tires with good tread on them will be different overall sizes. 1/32" might not be much of a mismatch, but consider how many extra revolutions sizes that are 1/8" or 1/4" smaller will make over the course of 10,000 miles.

This may or may not be the problem, but by the sounds of it it's a good place to start. I'd suggest changing the front end fluids and getting matching tires, in both size and treadware, and see if the sounds change.

 

[PEAR0119]

We already bought 4 new tires (which are all the same) and since we will be changing the hubs changing the t-case fluid should be easy enough. I will run it by him and see if be believes me or tells me I have no idea what I am talking about .

 

[fusseli]

We already bought 4 new tires (which are all the same) and since we will be changing the hubs changing the t-case fluid should be easy enough. I will run it by him and see if be believes me or tells me I have no idea what I am talking about .

Haha good plan. Just keep in mind when talking to him, the explorer doesn't have a 2WD t-case setting. It is an A4WD.

 

[PEAR0119]

I just hope that we didn't screw up the t-case. Mainly cause he will end up driving mine for the rest of the summer.

I wonder how hard it would be to replace if we did fubar it all up.

 

[Exproblems]

>>>>>>>>>

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that we threw it into 4x4 at around 60mph and the noise is definitely louder and vibrations are more severe. We are hoping that it is wheel bearings as in 4x4 is putting more stress on the bearing. Could this be related to transfer case of front diff?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A bad chain or chain link in the Transfer case can make a grinding noise that sounds like it is coming from the front end of the vehicle. It happened on my 05 Explorer when I was in 4 x 4 starting to move from a dead stop and the wheels under torque. The links on the chain were skipping across the gear teeth. That is what the transmission shop who repaired it with a new chain told me. Having just read all of your posts here and you mentioned 2 of your fathers tires were worn out and 2 were okay, that is how the tires on my Explorer looked the day I first test drove it at the dealership. The 2 rear tires were worn down bad, like on an angle and the spare tire under the rear end was a disaster. I made the dealership buy me 4 new tires prior to purchasing the vehicle and they had to have the transfer case chain repaired also. The person who owned my truck before me, must have never rotated the tires or got a wheel alignment done at any time and this is what most likely caused the transfer case chain failure in my transfer case.

 

[PEAR0119]

Well that can't be good. It doesn't sound like a chain though, you really only hear the noise at highway speeds. He never rotated the tires and doesn't really believe me when I told him about the tires being worn differently causing an issue. It kinda pisses me off actually that he discredits it because he doesn't think that it should make a difference with the 4x4 system.

 

[Exproblems]

>>>>>>>>>>>

when I told him about the tires being worn differently causing an issue. It kinda pisses me off actually that he discredits it because he doesn't think that it should make a difference with the 4x4 system.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your father is old school, years ago the tires being worn or un-even probably wouldn't have hurt the 4x4 system in an older model truck, but these modern suv's have so many sensors located on them with the computer controlled systems you can't get around it. I liked the older model trucks/4x4's better myself. They can stick all these sensors up their a$$ as far as I'm concerned. BTW, The transfer case chain problem I mentioned that I had, made a grinding or growling sound that came from the front end of the vehicle, but the problem was really in the transfer case. Since your problem only appears at highway speeds, this probably isn't your issue as you said. Good luck tracking it down.

 

[PEAR0119]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your father is old school, years ago the tires being worn or un-even probably wouldn't have hurt the 4x4 system in an older model truck, but these modern suv's have so many sensors located on them with the computer controlled systems you can't get around it. I liked the older model trucks/4x4's better myself. They can stick all these sensors up their a$$ as far as I'm concerned. BTW, The transfer case chain problem I mentioned that I had, made a grinding or growling sound that came from the front end of the vehicle, but the problem was really in the transfer case. Since your problem only appears at highway speeds, this probably isn't your issue as you said. Good luck tracking it down.

Oh yeah, for sure he is old school. Don't get me wrong he knows his ****, he used to rebuild transmissions to pay his way through college. But, trying to explain all this electronics stuff to him he is kind of in disbelief that it cause problems with just tire being worn.

Once we start tearing into the hubs and everything I'm sure we will find something that going on up there. For the time being I guess he can keep driving my X.

 

[Exproblems]

>>>>>>>>>>>

Oh yeah, for sure he is old school. Don't get me wrong he knows his ****, he used to rebuild transmissions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Not trying to alarm you, but something tells me your fathers knowledge of transmissions will come in handy with either of your Explorers. These Ford transmissions are junk. I've read so many posts in here of people complaining about Ford transmission problems, self included. Mine was rebuilt 3 months ago. I personally think these default "Over Drive" trannys are no good, they shift way too much as soon as you slow down a little and pick speed up again. They suck for city driving and as far as being better on gas mileage, thats BS! I'm lucky I get 11-12 MPG in the city and the engine has been fully tuned up and checked out including fuel injectors cleaned. You had to select the Over Drive gear years ago on your steering column selector, like if you were getting on a Thruway or Highway, there you would save money on gas driving at a lower RPM at cruising speeds and the vehicle stays at a specific speed. In the last 15 years, I've had 3 Ford Transmissions blow up on 3 different vehicles and 2 of them were these newer default Over Drive trannys with less than 90,000 miles on them. The other one was a Standard 3 speed Automatic that had over 140,000 miles on it and I towed my 22 foot boat with it a lot. Your father is like me, we like the way things use to be made much better because they lasted a hell of a lot longer with less problems and were easier to work on.

>>>>>>>>>>But, trying to explain all this electronics stuff to him he is kind of in disbelief that it cause problems with just tire being worn. >>>>>>>>>

The older you get, the less you like change. All that this electronic stuff means is more money out of your pocket and into the car manufacturers pockets. The sensors are junk or don't last and they want to charge you huge money for a cheap plastic junk replacement.

>>>>>>>>>>>Once we start tearing into the hubs and everything I'm sure we will find something that going on up there. For the time being I guess he can keep driving my X.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Good luck with everything.