gonna pull a suspect plug.what to look 4?

[joe doe]

well after a long battle this year and alot of replacement parts including all the gaskets on the motor .
head gaskets
intake gaskets
upper intake gaskets
timing cover gaskets
ect,ect,....done them all

i am still losing antifreeze.just a little now but its going somewhere.i still have the rough idle in the morning for a few seconds then it clears up .
i had a number 4cyl misfire awhile back and replaced that plug .

this is the plug i will pull this morning .

what should i look for???obviously antifreeze smell,wetness...what else?

i asked my mechanic if he seen anything cracked when he changed the head gaskets and he said he didnt see anything ,but who would admit they didnt bother to look anyway??

if i have antifreeze in that cyl how you think i should proceed?should i curse out my mechanic for not checking that?demand a free do over?

my mechanic been good to me over the last 10 years ,he used to rebuild 5.0 mustangs and even raced them on the circut.he had a real nice funnycar too.
they know thier way around engines for sure .

but what if they overlooked this?that would suck bigtime.

can a few month old head gasket be reused??can just 1 head gasket be purchased?cost me near 300.00 for the gasket kit from ford when i done the heads.
500.00 in labor to the mechanic to install it all,then another 200.00 when we done the timing cover and all the new gears,chain,tensioner and guide i had put in .

i put about 2k into this 2000 4.0 ohv this past year and i still think i have a head crack or something that makes it run rough in the morning .

what should i look for on this plug? i,ll post a picture if it then .

 

[joe doe]

here is the plug as pulled from the engine .

By null at 2010-08-31

By null at 2010-08-31

it did not smell like antifreeze to me .looks a little wettish ,but more like too much soot/carbon?/gas?

i cleaned this plug and put it back in .i started the truck after doing so and there was no shaky startup .had i not cleaned this plug i am quite certain i would have had the shaky startup.

ideas??lets hear em.

i am still losing about an inch of antifreeze a week.that being an inch from full.i fill it up each time .

ps-this plug is only about a month old .maybe 6 weeks tops

 

[Rudy602]

I'd pull a different plug [not adjacent] to give you some comparison. Just a thought.

 

[Rudy602]

that insulator looks wet to me

 

[joe doe]

but how to tell if its antifreeze?couldnt smell it .
yeah i should have pulled another plug ,but i,m cleaned up now and onto other things .

 

[my98nnj]

You've changed all the gaskets but I think you may be overlooking the obvious.
The water pump. It may weep ever so slightly that you don't see the leak.
When you did all the gaskets, did you ever change the pump?
Have you ever changed the radiator cap?

 

[joe doe]

i have also changed
the water pump with new
radiator with new
lower hose
thermostat
timing chain ,gears,tensioner,guide
serpentine belt tensioner new
new battery
new lower ball joints
new end link bushings
new plugs
new wires
new iac valve

other new items i have probably forgotten.i have dropped a boatload of cash on this truck this past year.

the rad cap does have some slight cracking of the rubber around the edges but if that initself was letting fluid pass it would wind up in my overflow tank and theres nothing there.

 

[budwich]

I would say you have a problem in that cylinder. IF you were getting coolant in the intake (ie. leak in the upper air ways), the plug would be "fire cleaned" and look "nice". In your case, the likely problem is coolant leaking during "down time" and then the cylinder / plug NOT firing for a bit until the coolant has "dried" off the plug and its starts "popping" again. I would get a nice length of cotton cord, remove the plug, pressure up the cooling system and drop the cord in the cylinder (of course leaving a "pig tail" to pull it out with). Leave it over night and pull in out in the morning.... my bet it will be wet. How the coolant is getting there is another story.

 

[joe doe]

I would say you have a problem in that cylinder. IF you were getting coolant in the intake (ie. leak in the upper air ways), the plug would be "fire cleaned" and look "nice". In your case, the likely problem is coolant leaking during "down time" and then the cylinder / plug NOT firing for a bit until the coolant has "dried" off the plug and its starts "popping" again. I would get a nice length of cotton cord, remove the plug, pressure up the cooling system and drop the cord in the cylinder (of course leaving a "pig tail" to pull it out with). Leave it over night and pull in out in the morning.... my bet it will be wet. How the coolant is getting there is another story.

thanks for the advice.could i simply do this at the end of a days run?like after driving it when its gonna sit overnight could i then do this?would you need enough cord to fill the whole void in the cyl?
and is there another way to test this besides this cord trick?

i am pretty certain at this point that its antifreeze getting in there overnight.dont most cracks happen between cyl?i am only having this problem with number 4.

 

[budwich]

might work.... the purpose of pressuring the system is to force fluid out from where ever for as long as possible. so you would pressure up and monitor and pressure up again IF it is losing pressure. Of course, that won't work thru the "run the engine" method. You only need enough cord to basically "swirl" around the piston head. Other tests??? How does things leak in??? cracks, poorly seated gaskets... It will likely be obvious during tear down especially when focusing on a specific cylinder.

 

[joe doe]

this was torn down already .i asked the mechanic if he seen any cracks in the head .he said not, but if he did not look i doubt they would admit that.

 

[budwich]

I wasn't referring to the previous tear down... I was referring to your next tear down... :-(
You won't know what the problem is until that occurs IF indeed your "test" shows antifreeze going into the cylinder. S**t happens, unless the head was "scoped" to check for cracks, they might have been missed or subsequent reassembly might have caused an issue with a "weak area" or a gasket might not have seated correctly... who knows but again IF there is 'freeze in there, you are likely stuck with another tear down OR a "junk and replace" mode.

 

[CrAzEd412]

You may actually have a cracked head. Not saying that is the case but you should take the heads completely off and have them checked. I had the same problem of the rough idle in the mornings until it warmed up and then it seemed fine, changed the plug on cylinder 3 about once every month and a half or so but didn't know what the problem was. I proceeded to pull the heads around mid march or so thinking it was going to be an easy fix until we got word that there was a crack that was leaking into cylinders 2&1 causing them to be basically steamed cleaned. I have pictures but im not sure how to post them on here.

 

[joe doe]

well this is all surely bad news .with only 140,000 on the clock and all the new parts invested ,it still be "cheaper to keep her". a new ex is certainly not in the books right now .
and this one certainly isnt ready to be laid to rest.other than this issue the motor is still great.

woudnt make much sense to trade in on another used vehicle .and since a new one is far off i guess i,ll limp it along awhile yet until i feel like investing more into it .

funny thing is it was doing this befor all the gaskets were replaced ,so the issue was there when the heads were pulled .
my mechanic must not have checked them,,,dam.

more n likely i will just drive it this way until driveability becomes an issue .

thanks for all your input .
i love this forum.

 

[CrAzEd412]

I understand where your coming from. I am a college student and needed my ex as my main mode of transportation. I came here for ideas on how to avoid having to purchase a new vehicle (ended up replacing with a re manufactured motor from NAPA), there was a suggestion that i should have gotten used heads, called around local junk yards here and apparently they were a common problem with the explorer and no one had it. So instead we bit the bullet and went ahead and got the re man motor and dropped it in. I say take the heads back off and get them magnafluxed to see if there is a crack that could be the cause of your problems.

 

[joe doe]

well if i do take the heads off again i will replace them with some reman heads or new ones .i can get them on the net for like 250.00 each plus shipping .

how much was the reman motor?and did it include the heads?
i still like this sport.its been good to me ,we have it 8 years and we are the second owners .got it when it was 2 years old off lease.paid 14999.00 for it .
it was a 24,000 dollar sport with all its options(its loaded).
that said we cant afford a new one right now with this economy the way it is .my business has taken a big hit ,and moneys getting tight so....
that and we are trying to get the credit cards payed up befor we even go for a new vehicle.
things were going pretty well up until this past year.

cars/trucks always fail at the worst possible times dont they?like they know you cant afford it right now

grin and bare it i guess.

 

[budwich]

well on that side of the "house", if you do the "run it til it dies", I would do a "dump" of the "stop leak" stuff. It won't hurt and if it does seal it even temporarily you might get a bit further down the "road" in terms of looking for replacement parts / vehicle.

 

[CrAzEd412]

I want to say we paid around 1,600 for the motor and it does include the heads. The rest of the parts we took off the old motor, cleaned them and installed them on the new motor. The original motor had about 180K on it before it was replaced by us. We ran into the same problem as you with the economy hitting everyone hard. Instead of getting a newer/used vehicle for a graduation gift we ended up replacing the motor. Runs as if it were a new vehicle now! haha

 

[joe doe]

1600.00 with heads from napa huh?might go that way then .
lets see......at the cheapest 500.00 for 2 heads plus shipping.
then 500.00 labor to my mechanic to redo the job again
then the gaskets set
then the bolt set.......see where this is going.....

might be better in the long run to replace the whole darn engine.

 

[ranger7ltr]

None of this sounds good....

When I started working on my 1999 Sport this spring, I expected to only need to replace the heads on the existing shortblock...Then I found 2 cylinder walls chewed to hell so out the original shortblock came and a new remanufactured shortblock went into the engine bay...

Since I already had the new heads from J&C cylinder heads and the rest of the internals[rockers, lifters, pushrods, oil pump driveshaft] I started to assemble and install...The shortblock was 499.00 and the heads were 325 complete with shipping...

It sounds like your head or heads were not magnafluxed for cracks or maybe warpage...And it is apparently not uncommon to not check the heads by a shop unless you specifically call for it...Another member took his heads to a machine shop and got them back and there was a hole in one of the combustion chambers that he found after reassembling the engine...