Got Screwed by Ford on Incentive Protection and Order Price Protection

[chriswebpub]

I'm hoping someone knows someone who can maybe help. So far, ford customer service has been a joke, something out of a Seinfeld episode.

We ordered our explorer December 29th 2010. At the time there were $2500 in incentives (holiday cash, early order, and conquest for switching from a GM vehicle).

We brought our lease documentation on our Saturn Outlook in at order time, the sales manager at the dealership (Ron Feher, Courtesy Ford, Okemos MI). Said it'd be no problem, they "always have conquest."

Our explorer was finally delivered like June 1st 2011.

The price was a good $1500 higher. The deal I had made with Ron was $500 below dealer invoice. But the dealer invoice price had increased significantly. I understand, of course, about inflation, but surely if you are a car company and have an order in hand, you know you'll need X amount of steel, and you'll order it, locking in your price, when you get the order. At least, if you're not stupid you'd run a business that way.

They also no longer had the holiday cash incentive, and they said we didn't qualify for conquest.

See, our lease ended February 15th and we were down 1 car from then because we were waiting (and waiting) for the X. Ford rolled over the conquest incentive sometime in April which made our lease too old to qualify for it now. Apparently NOTHING that exists at time of order matters. It is certainly not our fault that Ford took to long to build our car. We were not trying to manipulate the system. The incentive exists to reward people for switching from GM, which is what we were doing.

Supposedly (he did this in private, so who knows) Ron called his Ford rep and asked for an exception, and was told no. What kind of horrible customer service is that? They said it was our fault because we ordered inflatable seatbelts which took too long to make. Nevermind we were told February when we ordered, or that I saw people on Facebook who did not order until 2 months after us, get their X in late March... with inflatable seatbelts. People who ordered 2 months after us ended, the same supposedly rare option, ended up getting their vehicle 2 months before us.

You'd think, with such a comedy of errors, Ford would be embarassed and try to just make us happy, but apparently not.

I've been talking with their customer rep, Jamie, on Facebook... no luck there. He/She (I'm not sure) had someone from Ford call me. Who, said she could neither confirm nor deny (literally - she should go into politics) that Ford did or did not have incentive price protection or order price protection we should have been eligible for. She said she was in the wrong department (Warranty and repair). Which begs the question of why she even bothered to call me as I had made my complaint abundantly clear.

I've been reading on this forum of all you people with (short by comparison) 3 month or 2 month waits and having order price protection and incentive protection and I think "Where is mine?" It gets my blood boiling.

In the end, Ron said he finagled some incentives to give us that he didn't need evidence for, and said he could get us $750 back of the missing $1500 in incentives. But I don't know how much is truth and what is just a line out of him. It did nothing for the order price though. There were also some BS fees he didn't disclose originally that he refused to waive.

All told, I think he knew he had me in a jam because Ford was so fricken late with the car we really needed it at that point, we didn't have the time to walk away, but I was sorely tempted. So I had to swallow the roughly $2000 - $2500 extra expense.

We love the car, its great, this is the first Ford we've ever owned, it'll likely be the last. As much as I like the car, I can't forsee patronizing a business that cares so little about their customers, that behaves like the worst type of salesmen, that plays gotcha with customers. If I wanted to buy used I might buy a Ford used, maybe, from another dealership, because then I'm not patronizing Ford Motor Company, but it is going to take a long time for me to forgive this.

Nor can I recommend to anyone to buy this vehicle, no matter how much I like it, because of how horrible the purchase experience was. I'll tell them to go buy a Cadillac, GMC, or Buick.

 

[chriswebpub]

I just got another message from Ford's Facebook person who said, and I quote:

However, pricing and incentives/rebates are entirely determined by your dealership as they are independently owned and operated.

So the factory has nothing to do with factory incentives or factory rebates? My local dealer invents these things and the cash comes out of his pocket? I just don't get how my local dealer can afford to run national advertising campaigns for these incentives he is running independently.

More buck passing. Dealership passes buck to Ford. Ford passes it back to the dealership. Why would anyone want to do business with this company?

 

[JDraper]

Sounds like the dealership is jerking you around and wanting to pocket the incentive for themselves.

 

[chriswebpub]

That wouldn't be legal, would it? Technically, sounds like fraud to me.

 

[goofydisneydaddy]

Sorry, I can't help. But, I'm a little confused as to what your agreed price was? $500 under invoice?!? I assume that is after incentives, correct? Either way, you should have had a firm price agreed to when you put in the order. Without that, I'm not sure what Ford can do for you. This dealer sounds no bueno to me. My understanding is that a retail order locks the price at time of order. The invoice can't go up $1500 or any dollars. The incentives should also have locked at that time as well. However, it doesn't sound like your dealer did that.

I know this is all shoulda coulda at this point, but I'm sorry to say the weakest link here is you never really had a firm agreement besides some nebulous $500 under invoice. Or, perhaps flip side of that coin. Your dealer should honor their agreement for $500 under invoice. If the incentives went down, and they didn't lock them in, then their profit went down. Either way $500 under invoice would still get them at least invoice because there is a $500 incentive right now.

If you are trying to tell me that your deal was $500 under invoice and in addition to that you can take all the incentives, then I don't think you and the dealer were ever on the same page as far as what you agreed to ...

 

[FordService]

I just got another message from Ford's Facebook person who said, and I quote:



So the factory has nothing to do with factory incentives or factory rebates? My local dealer invents these things and the cash comes out of his pocket? I just don't get how my local dealer can afford to run national advertising campaigns for these incentives he is running independently.

More buck passing. Dealership passes buck to Ford. Ford passes it back to the dealership. Why would anyone want to do business with this company?

When Jamie last spoke with you she recommended that you contact the dealer and the Marketing department at 800-334-4375. Have you had a chance to do that? I understand why you would be upset about the price difference and would be happy to review this with you via private message.

Cory

 

[chriswebpub]

Sorry, I can't help. But, I'm a little confused as to what your agreed price was? $500 under invoice?!? I assume that is after incentives, correct? Either way, you should have had a firm price agreed to when you put in the order. Without that, I'm not sure what Ford can do for you. This dealer sounds no bueno to me. My understanding is that a retail order locks the price at time of order. The invoice can't go up $1500 or any dollars. The incentives should also have locked at that time as well. However, it doesn't sound like your dealer did that.

I know this is all shoulda coulda at this point, but I'm sorry to say the weakest link here is you never really had a firm agreement besides some nebulous $500 under invoice. Or, perhaps flip side of that coin. Your dealer should honor their agreement for $500 under invoice. If the incentives went down, and they didn't lock them in, then their profit went down. Either way $500 under invoice would still get them at least invoice because there is a $500 incentive right now.

If you are trying to tell me that your deal was $500 under invoice and in addition to that you can take all the incentives, then I don't think you and the dealer were ever on the same page as far as what you agreed to ...

Nope, I had it in writing (so I thought). $500 below dealer invoice plus incentives. You seem incredulous, but dealer invoice isn't the actual same thing as dealer cost. There are dealer incentives and factory hold backs (google them). The dealer still makes a profit selling under invoice, and the incentives are paid by Ford, not out of the Dealer's share.

I still got the vehicle for $500 below invoice, only the invoice changed (as did the incentives), thats where they screwed me. Unless they commited fraud, and fabricated an invoice. I have both copies. So, the failure was in order price protection and incentive protection, as in the title of the thread. If I find out they did commit fraud, I'm more than happy to take them to court and contact the authorities. I'm not ruling that out at this point.

 

[chriswebpub]

When Jamie last spoke with you she recommended that you contact the dealer and the Marketing department at 800-334-4375. Have you had a chance to do that? I understand why you would be upset about the price difference and would be happy to review this with you via private message.

Cory

Last I talked to the dealer they said it was Ford's fault, that they don't control factory price increases or factory incentives..

I've not talked to the marketing department yet. But I'll bet you they tell me they can't help me. That seems to be the one thing all the arms of this octopus have in common.

And yes, I am talking factory price increases, again, unless you people at Ford want to continue to infer that my dealer commited a felony.

http://www.torquenews.com/106/ford-raises-prices-third-time-2011

 

[goofydisneydaddy]

Nope, I had it in writing (so I thought). $500 below dealer invoice plus incentives. You seem incredulous, but dealer invoice isn't the actual same thing as dealer cost. There are dealer incentives and factory hold backs (google them). The dealer still makes a profit selling under invoice, and the incentives are paid by Ford, not out of the Dealer's share.

I still got the vehicle for $500 below invoice, only the invoice changed (as did the incentives), thats where they screwed me. Unless they commited fraud, and fabricated an invoice. I have both copies. So, the failure was in order price protection and incentive protection, as in the title of the thread. If I find out they did commit fraud, I'm more than happy to take them to court and contact the authorities. I'm not ruling that out at this point.

I'm not trying to be incredulous. As I stated, I'm more curious, than anything. And, let me say at the outset, that it really sounds like your dealer sucks, and screwed this all up royally. And you got screwed.

Now, getting to my curiosity and thinking about this legally - You say you have it in writing. What does the writing say? Not your summation, the actual words. Does that "writing" have a price on it? And this writing you speak of, also says that any incentives will also be taken off the sale price.

Hey, if you have a writing that actually says all that, then by all means, go ahead and sue. From what you've described though, I think your contract sounds illusory and there was no clear meeting of the minds, but good luck to you. I know dealers make profit under invoice. But you know what else. Dealers don't often sell under invoice and give you all the incentives because its not worth it. So, somehow, you are a magical negotiator and you managed to negotiate a firm commitment (in writing) for a brand new, nearly impossible to keep on the lot vehicle, for $500 under invoice.

When you left after placing your order, you should have had a firm fixed price. Your dealer should have have provided you the invoice, the incentives, and what your price would be when the car arrived. Then again, you screwed up by not getting those things in writing (unless you did, in which case, go ahead a sue). But you made your post hoping everyone would cheerlead for you, and I don't seem to be doing that, so I'm sorry. I can't be your cheerleader until I understand what the agreement was and what you actually have in writing from the dealer. Either way, best of luck to you.

 

[FordService]

Last I talked to the dealer they said it was Ford's fault, that they don't control factory price increases or factory incentives..

I've not talked to the marketing department yet. But I'll bet you they tell me they can't help me. That seems to be the one thing all the arms of this octopus have in common.

And yes, I am talking factory price increases, again, unless you people at Ford want to continue to infer that my dealer commited a felony.

http://www.torquenews.com/106/ford-raises-prices-third-time-2011

I received your private message and I’ll respond as soon as possible.

Cory

 

[chriswebpub]

I'm not trying to be incredulous. As I stated, I'm more curious, than anything. And, let me say at the outset, that it really sounds like your dealer sucks, and screwed this all up royally. And you got screwed.

Now, getting to my curiosity and thinking about this legally - You say you have it in writing. What does the writing say? Not your summation, the actual words. Does that "writing" have a price on it? And this writing you speak of, also says that any incentives will also be taken off the sale price.

Hey, if you have a writing that actually says all that, then by all means, go ahead and sue. From what you've described though, I think your contract sounds illusory and there was no clear meeting of the minds, but good luck to you. I know dealers make profit under invoice. But you know what else. Dealers don't often sell under invoice and give you all the incentives because its not worth it. So, somehow, you are a magical negotiator and you managed to negotiate a firm commitment (in writing) for a brand new, nearly impossible to keep on the lot vehicle, for $500 under invoice.

When you left after placing your order, you should have had a firm fixed price. Your dealer should have have provided you the invoice, the incentives, and what your price would be when the car arrived. Then again, you screwed up by not getting those things in writing (unless you did, in which case, go ahead a sue). But you made your post hoping everyone would cheerlead for you, and I don't seem to be doing that, so I'm sorry. I can't be your cheerleader until I understand what the agreement was and what you actually have in writing from the dealer. Either way, best of luck to you.

Didn't post looking for a cheerleader. Posted looking for information on dealer incentive protection and order price protection. Because so far Ford has refused to confirm either exist to me, the only place I've seen them was on this forum.

You seem to think I'm dumb or something. That we weren't on the same page? That I was confused? Trust me, this is not the problem. I knew exactly what car I wanted, I called every Ford dealer in the area, and had them bid against each other for my business. That is how I got the price. I wasn't buying a hot car off the lot, taking their inventory. I was ordering a vehicle, so they could order it in addition to their inventory, and they didn't have to spend any time "selling" it to me, I didn't need a test drive. I have a copy of an invoice written on by the sales manager showing his math laying out the invoice, minus $500, minus incentives, big circle around purchase price.This isn't a sales contract saying "Courtesy Ford agrees to sell you a Ford Explorer at $xxxx price" of course, do you normally get such a document when you order a car?

It is a price in writing though. And, as I said, I still got it for $500 below invoice. What changed was the invoice price. Because either Ford doesn't have order price protection, in which case they're a crappy company, or they do but my dealer failed to apply it, in which case they're amateurs, or they do, my dealer applied it, and then fabricated the second invoice so they can pocket the difference, in which case they're crooks. Same thing on the incentives.

If I can ascertain my dealer made an error of commission, I will contact the authorities and take them to court over it. If I can ascertain they made an error of omission, I will take them to court over it. (Small claims court is not that expensive). If I find out Ford just has crappy policies, I'll just be angry and make sure everyone knows how crappy those policies are.

 

[TXFordMan]

This is the incentive protection program from Ford. Incentives at the time of order are protected. When I ordered my Ex, the price agreed upon was invoice price. The dealer wrote the invoice price on the deal sheet and also wrote "whatever rebates available at time of delivery". At the time, I didn't know about incentive protection. In my 10 week wait, I found the incentive protection program while looking around on this forum. Ford raised prices between when I ordered and when the Ex arrived. The dealer still gave me invoice price, but it was the new, more expensive, invoice price. They did get me the rebates that were available at the time of order. I wasn't real thrilled about our agreed upon price being raised (~$300) but I was thrilled that I got the better rebates that were in affect when I ordered instead of "at time of delivery". I was very pleased that my dealer had my Ex hidden inside so nobody could mess with it until I could get there and it only had 2.9 miles on it. Anyway, I think your dealer might not have even known about the incentive protection program. Either way I say if anybody screwed you it was the dealer, not Ford.http://www.allfordmustangs.com/foru...s-after-today-13208ippenrollmentguidesv13.pdf