Grand Cherokee fan looking at Explorers.

[vintage sled nut]

Hello to all.

I own a 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Orvis Edition that was bought in 2000. This thing has given zero problems since then. It had 165,000 then, as a salesman owned it before. The problem is, with almost 220,000 miles, it is about to need some major work in the front end and new tires. It is only now showing rust under the rockers and the rear hatch. The thing still runs great. Of course, I wanted another Grand Cherokee Limited, or better, an Overland, to replace my '95. The problem is, they don't come cheap in the 2003-2004 age I most want. While carefully examining ads online and in publications, I noticed some good deals on loaded Explorers, giving me cause to consider them. I have always been a Ford guy. I have owned a number of old Ford and Mercury cars, trucks, and SUVs, but they were never late model.

My need is for a V8 with 4 wheel drive and trailer tow, as I am a snowmobiler.

The plus category for the Explorer is that they are cheaper than similarly equipt Grand Cherokees (by probably 30% on average). Explorers are also larger by 7+ inches wheelbase and over a foot length. This should aid towing my 23' long trailer.

I am looking at a pair of E.B. V8 Explorers. Both are 2003s. The main difference being one is AWD, the other has selectable 4X4.

I just wanted to say that I have already learned much from searching this site. I will seperately post a question or two soon.

-Les in MI.

 

[Thelt]

The Jeep is going to be better off road but the Explorer is going to be better on the highway. The suspension on the 02 and later Explorers is much better than most SUVs when it comes to on road use. It rides and handles great for its size and weight. An Explorer can also be had with a third row seat.

It just comes down to what you want in your vehicle. If you are going to do much off roading go with the Jeep. If you do not plan to go off road much then go with the Explorer.

As far as towing I pulled a 17' travel trailer with mine for a while and it did great. Mine has the factory tow package and the V6.

 

[vintage sled nut]

Thanks for the reply, Thelt. I like to hear good things about the Explorers road manners. That is where it will pretty much stay.

Yup. The Jeeps are amazing in what they will go over and through. I didn't figure either drive system for the Explorer would equal Jeep's Quadra-drive system, but the best of them should do as well as my old Quadra-trac Jeep. I am looking at V8 with trailer tow, so it looks like a limited slip rear is standard. That should help in deeper snow.

I do not recreationally off-road. I have been in mud a few times to fetch deer, stuck trucks, or to mark a snowmobile trail. I will keep the Jeep as a "beater" for this. My most pressing concerns with the 4 wheel drive involve the ability to get around in deeper snow and the ability to survive hauling my enclosed 3 place snowmobile trailer.

 

[Exploderpilot]

Your explorer will surprise you day after day as far as offroad is concerned. The only thing in my opinion that helps the jeeps have a better reputation offroad is better transmissions(sometimes) and a better chance of lockers/limslips being standard equipment. All things being equal, I would bet an explorer against a cherokee anyday.

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

As an owner of 6 Jeeps, 3 of which were Grand Cherokees ('93 Limited V8, '96 Limited I6, and '98 5.9 Limited) I can honestly say that the Explorer is far and away better in just about every department than the ZJ body Grand Cherokee was. The WJ Grand Cherokee ('99-'04) doesn't have very good quality as far as I'm concerned. The interior looks cheap, and they have lots of little quirky problems. The WJ's Quadra-Drive system was about as problematic as any 4WD system could be, and it didn't have any electronics whatsoever. It used gerotor oil pumps to engage and disengage multi-plate clutches in the transfer case and differentials. When it worked, it worked well, but the problem is most the time it didn't work!
The 4.7L V8 (especially the HO version in the Overland) is a rocket in that light of a vehicle, but they deliver terrible fuel mileage for their size. The 4.0L I6 is a dog. They're torquey, but slow. The best part of them is they're quite reliable. Rarely do you hear of any engine trouble with the 4.0s.

The Jeeps are going to be noisier inside than the Explorer, just due to their design...They're a unibody construction rather than a body-on-frame, which isolates a lot of drivetrain and road noise from the cabin. My Explorer is just dead quiet crusing down the road. None of the Jeeps I owned could come close in that area. They all had their little whines and hums intruding in.

I had little experience with newer Fords up until my purchase of my '04 Eddie Bauer. Like was mentioned, it surprises me every time I demand something of it. Winter traction with the AdvanceTrac system was astounding. It's the same concept as Jeep's Quadra-Drive system, but it actually works! Ford integrated the ABS pump into the 4WD system to accomplish the same thing as Jeep, putting torque to the wheel(s) with traction. Even on a solid sheet of ice, I had amazing traction...To the point where it almost makes a person feel overconfident and maybe even a bit disconnected from what type of surface you're driving on.

I think the Grand Cherokee wins just ever so slightly in the personality department. The Explorer is styled very conservatively to appeal to a large buying segment. They went conservative to almost "Toyota bland" with the Gen III Explorer. The uplevel trim packages do add a bit more to it, but there's only so much you can do with flat sheet metal and still call it styling.

If your vehicle is going to be strictly a pavement pounder, the Explorer is probably a better choice, though I really can't throw the Grand Cherokee under the bus too much. I do have an appreciation for them, and even though some things are a bit archaic like the solid front and rear axles, old recirculating ball steering gear, etc. they're still very good vehicles.

At least you aren't looking at Chevy TrailBlazers! Those things redefine the term "useless garbage".

 

[vintage sled nut]

Exploderpilot, based on your user name, I would think you didn't like the Explorer. "Exploder" was always a derogatory nickname those who didn't like the Ford Explorer called them by. Obviously, you like them.

Cornburner, I really appreciate your experience, seeing as that you have owned very similar vehicles to the one I am driving and what I am looking at. I was not aware Advance-trac was like Quadra-drive. Nothing I have looked at has had it. It sounds good, though. I will admit, I like mechanical, or even fluid controls over electrical ones in the drive line. These days, though, pretty much everything is electric or electronic. Also, I like the simplicity of solid axles. Unfortunately, they were dropped ten years ago. That is like 100 in Michigan car years.

My friend has an '06 Grand Cherokee Lerado with the newer 3.7 V-6. It feels more powerful than the old I-6 4.0 and is quieter and smoother. I would be shocked if it went a quarter million miles or more like most old Jeep 6 cylinders would. That Jeep does feel and look cheap inside compared to my 95 Limited. The only complaint I have about the interior of my old Jeep is a loud intermittent queak in the center dash area I can't fix, or even effect to any degree. I like the ride and handling.

I want to thank both of you for the replies.

-Les

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

The Grand Cherokees up thru 2004 were still solid axles front and rear. Only the newest body style, the WK, which came out in 2005, has independent front suspension.

Oh yeah...I own a vintage sled too! It's a '76 Sno-Jet with a Yamaha 440 in it. A good customer of mine gave it to me. Needs some carb work, but I have another carb and a new kit to go thru it. I just need to find the time to work on it. Never had any experience with one of these, but people that I've talked to have told me they're quite impressive. Hopefully by next winter I'll have it up and going.

 

[03Redfire]

Well as an owner of a 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4.7 HO and a 2003 Explorer XLT 4.0 V6 I have a taste of both worlds. I have had 4 Grand Cherokee's and 3 Ex's. My Jeep has just 11,300 miles since new and the Ex has 76,000. We drive the Ford the most . It ride better burns corn and is a little larger. I like the simple setup on the Jeep and simple tends to break less. However the Ex has been a good road vehicle with only the normal problems that they all have. Between the AWD model and the 4X4 model I would buy the 4X4 model because of the locking low setting. AWD does not have this and in mud or snow it just might save you from being really stuck. I like the lever action of the 4X4 in the Jeep but my wife can never get it into 4 low. She hated the Jeeps for that fact. She has no trouble pushing a button on the Ex. and has never been stranded due to weather.

 

[Thelt]

Thanks for the reply, Thelt. I like to hear good things about the Explorers road manners. That is where it will pretty much stay.

Yup. The Jeeps are amazing in what they will go over and through. I didn't figure either drive system for the Explorer would equal Jeep's Quadra-drive system, but the best of them should do as well as my old Quadra-trac Jeep. I am looking at V8 with trailer tow, so it looks like a limited slip rear is standard. That should help in deeper snow.

I do not recreationally off-road. I have been in mud a few times to fetch deer, stuck trucks, or to mark a snowmobile trail. I will keep the Jeep as a "beater" for this. My most pressing concerns with the 4 wheel drive involve the ability to get around in deeper snow and the ability to survive hauling my enclosed 3 place snowmobile trailer.

I have only had mine in the snow once, we do not get much in North Carolina. It did great though that one time. Mine has the system where it is in AWD unless you lock it in to 4hi or 4lo. That is handy for slushly snow where there are patches of dry pavement. My has the limited slip rear too. I doubt you would be dissapointed with the Explorer's snow capabilities. Where it falls short of the Jeep in off-roading is in areas like ground clearance, approach and departure angles etc. It is almost impossible to get a significant lift on a 3rd gen Explorer while it is easy on most Jeeps.

With the way you plan to use it I think you would be very happy with the Explorer.

 

[vintage sled nut]

Great replies. 03 Redfire, your's was exactly what I was looking for!

I am pretty well sold on an Explorer. I like what I see and most of what I read. I will keep the old Jeep for off-road use, or maybe even the worst winter weather to save the newer vehicle.

Off topic:

Oh yeah...I own a vintage sled too! It's a '76 Sno-Jet with a Yamaha 440 in it. A good customer of mine gave it to me. Needs some carb work, but I have another carb and a new kit to go thru it. I just need to find the time to work on it. Never had any experience with one of these, but people that I've talked to have told me they're quite impressive. Hopefully by next winter I'll have it up and going.

Cornburner...you have a vintage snowmobile....thats cool. But, be careful. The hobby of collecting old sleds starts with one cheap (or free) machine, then becomes an addiction. It happened to me. I own better than 20. Many don't run. Some are hopelessly incomplete, missing parts I have searched years for. A few run great. Basically, I filled a 24X40 polebuilding, then built a shelf to store a row of them on above sleds on the floor. My new Explorer, like the Jeep and my '73 Mercury Montego, will set outside in the weather. I think I might be addicted to the hobby. I've saw it happen to so many others. There are several collectors with hundreds of sleds in storage. If your sled is a Sno-Jet SST, I always liked them. Like I said, you'll be hooked if you aren't careful.

-Les

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

It started out kind of by accident...I talked to the wrong person about sleds. I was looking to buy something more or less turn-key for a good price, and my customer brought over this old Sno-Jet and a box of parts, and told me I could have it. I guess free is always the best price, even if it isn't exactly what I wanted! I just planned on bombing around in the field behind our shop with it anyhow...I had no plans of buying a trail machine. Just something to mess around with.

When I was younger I collected vintage Lawn-Boy mowers. (Insert "you're a dork" comment here) I had over 30 of them at one time dating back to the first OMC Lawn-Boy from 1955. Nearly every single one ran perfectly too. I since sold/junked all but a precious few, but now I see there's quite a few people that have the same hobby as me. I'm down to 4 right now, and they're mostly newer ones from the mid-70s to early 90s, and one "daily driver" '99 with the DuraForce engine. I bought that one brand new just because the engine intrigued me.

 

[Ritsui]

While Explorers are overall solid cars, I would be wary of quality issues in a used 2003 as it is only the second year of the 3rd generation. There are reasons they are losing value quicker than Grand Cherokees, like stupid interior things which fall apart if you bang on them. I have a neighbor who's shift column broke, rendering the car nearly inoperable. I later found it to be a fairly common problem in 2002-2003.

Personally, I would try to split the difference in savings and lean toward a 2004 or later, but in any case, search here for common issues and check the service record of the cars you are looking at. You are buying right at the edge of warranty expiration and are going to want the big items taken care of.

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

The most commonly overlooked reason why Explorers depreciate so fast is because they make so bloody many of them. There's probably 10 Explorers on the market to every one SUV of another make. Supply and demand.

IMHO, quality is on par with just about everything else. Every vehicle has its shortcomings and failures.

 

[vintage sled nut]

Cornburner, I mow my lawn with a lawnboy Silver Pro series Lawnboy. It takes me an hour each time, and I often mow twice a week. It was bought new in about 2000. Other than the ignition pack going out a year ago, which I fixed for $50.00, it has been great. I love the 2-cycle Lawnboys! I had an OLD one for years before this one. I just wish I had bought another new one to put on the shelf for when this one gives up. Getting rid of the best engine ever put in a walk behind mower was dumb of Toro. After destroying Lawnboy mowers, they killed "real" Wheel Horses and put Toro stickers on box store MTD lawn tractors. Sad.

Thanks for the headsup on the interior part, Ritsui.

There is no dounbting Explorers are everywhere. Surely, higher volume means more buyers who are unhappy, as well as more who are.

I went to look at an '03 E.B. V8 4X4 today a Ford dealer had a sweet deal on. Price was $8950 with 90,000 miles. While it is still on the Internet today, it was delivered to a customer yeasterday. The salesman tried to sell me a 2003 V6 with heavy tow package. I was crazy about the color, a sort of olive green matallic. When I asked the price, he replied it had just came in and needed the control box for the 4 wheel drive and a wheel bearing. If I bought it as is, he said $5500. The sevice man said under 1000 for parts to fix it and they'd sell it for $7500 to 8000. You gotta give that sales guy credit. He was resourceful at trying to keep me from leaving empty handed.

To try an salvage the 25 mile trip, I hit a dozen car lots on the strip returning home. No good Explorer deals. I did see a nice Expedition E. B. 4X4 for the same kind of money. It was an '02 with a few more miles. Again, I was just hoping stay newer. I'd rather have high miles and fewer winters on a vehicle, as I am not going to wear it out driving 6000 miles a year.

I am going to test drive that '03 E.B. Exporer AWD on Monday. It is 30 miles in the other direction, so I couldn't do it today. It is actually cheaper than the other one with similar milage.

-Les

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

If that dealership were to get the 4WD working, but leave the wheel bearing alone and let you fix it, that would be a decent deal. I bought mine with a noisy wheel bearing, and they knocked off $1500 for it. I priced a new (rear) hub bearing assembly from Carquest, and it was around a hundred bucks. They're fairly easy to change too. I was all prepared to replace it after I took delivery, but they wanted to make sure it was the wheel bearing and not a rear differential, and for some reason that they really didn't get into, somebody screwed something up when they were inspecting it, because I got the vehicle with two brand new rear wheel bearings and two brand new rear brake rotors! No price increase either! Rather than sit around and ask stupid questions, I took it for one final road test, then did the rest of the paperwork before they changed their minds!

Off topic: Toro didn't have a choice but to axe the DuraForce engine...2-cycle engines were banned in 2005 for all lawn mowers nationwide for emissions reasons. They've been banned in CA for quite some time now. Weed trimmers and chainsaws are probably next on the chopping block, and you're already seeing some compact 4-cycle trimmers on the market. I hate to see them go, and I'm going to do everything in my power to keep my old ones running strong.

 

[shadowless127]

Me and the lady test drove a WJ and an 02 X V8 w/4WD when we were looking for a vehicle for her and the 4.6L in the X IMO had much better acceleration then the 4.7L PowerTech in the Gr Cherokee, and we test drove them from the same lot so we ran the same path which was half city half wide open road. The explorer was WAY more responsive and way quicker then the Jeep.

A friend of mine has an 03 V6 Gr Cherokee which rides quite nice but has the poor acceleration of the V6.

If miles aren't a concern to you, you should be able to get a pretty decent deal on an 04 XLT if you're willing to give up some features (msg center, heated seats, ATC).

 

[Kyle0614]

Get a 2001 Eddie Bauer AWD V8 nuff said...i want one of those

 

[E.B. Cornburner]

A friend of mine has an 03 V6 Gr Cherokee which rides quite nice but has the poor acceleration of the V6.

Not to split hairs, but there was no V6 offered in a '03 WJ. They used the 4.0L inline 6 up thru 2004. Only the WK ('05+) had the 3.7L V6 like the Liberty. And yes, the 4.0L I6 in that heavy of a vehicle is a gutless wonder.

 

[Thelt]

Jeep's inline 4.0 is stout in the old Cherokee's (not Grand).

 

[CDW6212R]

Good thread, and many good replies. I suggest hunting an 03 or 04 given what has been mentioned. Avoid the 02's(first model year) and the 03 if you can. Always buy the high option models of used vehicles unless you know of some problem feature. They should cost about the same as a no option model.

Get the AWD only if it's really a street only truck. The real 4WD TC's are going to be better in real snow, dirt etc.

FYI, the late Ford electronic 4WD systems do not have AWD in them, in any position. Those automatic positions(selector switch) is not AWD, it is automatic 4WD, or A4WD. They are not the same thing, AWD has no electric clutches, no wiring. Good luck,