Help Diagnose my intermittant Missing Problem

[james t]

Go ahead and get new springs. They are cheap... no point in putting old ones back in.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Progress

Made more progress in the teardown.

Lower Intake removed:

Wrapped in foil for the night:

Re-tapping alternator mounting bracket:

Had a lot of trouble getting this one bolt out, turns out it grabbed some metal in the threads and dragged the shavings all the way though. I was lucky and didn't need to increase the size of the hole, merely cleaned out the threads. Used a die on the bolt to clean it out - all set!

Steering shaft disconnected:

Two-minutes, one bolt. Disconnecting the steering shaft and collapsing it allowed for MUCH easier access to the exhaust manifold bolts and the head bolts. Would also make easier access for routine spark plug changes.

Rockers, pushrods, and driver's side exhaust manifold removed:

Decided to remove the manifold since the two collector bolts were not that rusty. With all of the brake lines, it will make for much easier access to the head bolts. Man... this would be the time to upgrade to some headers.

Tomorrow its just the head bolts, and a few remaining bolts on the driver's side accessory bracket. I'm close!

 

[performancenut]

Nice organized approach. If I were you, I'd pick up a cheap set of headers and start on a process of making them work. It has been referenced in the past that a set from a mustang could be adapted over with some mild changes and made to work. I think the clearance with the frame rail may have been the issue. And, if you carefully document and measure the changes, I'm sure you could market and sell plenty of sets.

With all you have going on now, I'm not sure it would be practical; however this could be a great opportunity. Keep up the good work.

 

[performancenut]

By the way, any visual problems with the heads, rockers, etc?

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

By the way, any visual problems with the heads, rockers, etc?

Visually everything looked ok. There was no space between any of the valve stems and the rockers, and the pushrods couldn't move up/down, but i could spin them. I am going to bump the starter and watch the lifters tomorrow, before the heads come off to make sure the cam is ok.

I can't wait to see my pistons!

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Nice organized approach. If I were you, I'd pick up a cheap set of headers and start on a process of making them work. It has been referenced in the past that a set from a mustang could be adapted over with some mild changes and made to work. I think the clearance with the frame rail may have been the issue. And, if you carefully document and measure the changes, I'm sure you could market and sell plenty of sets.

With all you have going on now, I'm not sure it would be practical; however this could be a great opportunity. Keep up the good work.

Organization on a project like this is key. I keep all my bolts in labeled ziplock bags, mark most elecrical connectors, mark all vacuum connectors, mark cooling hoses, etc. I mark what I take off the truck too. My sharpie and masking tape have been my best friends on this project - after my breaker bars.

I'll snap a photo of all the parts on the bench, its amazing how much stuff there is.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Got the heads off!!

Pictures to come tonight.

1) What's the best way to clean the head surface area where the old gasket was, as well as the inside of the cylinder?

2) For testing the fuel injectors, can I apply 12v to them directly?

 

[Glacier991]

For the mating surface, a gasket scraper is the best was to go... hone it razor sharp and use it carefully. Cylinder? either buff it with 400 grit carbide paper, or use a hone LIGHTLY. Depending, you will have trouble with ring ledge. I'm not sure I'd ridge ream it at this point, but you could.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Heads are off!

A can of PB blaster, a pack of ziplock bags, a few runs to Sears for tools, 4ft and 2ft sections of galvanized pipe "breaker bars" and a broken fingernail later: Removed both heads today!

Ended up having to rig up a support for the driver's side accessory bracket. Supporting the A/C compressor and P/S pump, the aluminum bracket's 3 bolts only attach to the head. I told myself from the begining I wasn't touching my redone A/C system - and it looks like I'll be a-ok. Funny... the passenger side bracket, which only holds the alternator and tensioner/idler, and could have been removed no sweat, mounts to the block.

Exhaust manifold bolts weren't that bad, neither were the head bolts themselves.

Here are some photos:

A/C & P/S support:

1" Box tube and nylon line, there is also wood underneith

Both heads removed, and their head gaskets:

GT-40P Head (Top):

Passenger side head, (CYL #1-#4):

#2 is oily

Passenger Side Pistons (#1-#4):

Driver Side Pistons (#5-#8):

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Updates

Been a few days since my last update.

1) Cleaned up cylinder bores (Shop vac, and oil soaked rags), then rotated engine crank. All cylinders, including #2 have PERFECT looking bores, crosshatched honing pattern is still visible and undisturbed in all eight cylinders. woo-hoo!! There is a small ridge in all cylinders. Worth worrying about???

2) Found several machine shops in my area that still do valve jobs. One guy had a small shop, worked solo, and was going to dissasemble and measure everything with me there, he was also the cheapist (by $10) of the quotes I got on the phone. Sounded promising, but when I got to his shop was not impressed. Rundown "shack" in an alley, VERY messy, parts and tools laying everywhere. We started to work on the heads, then told me he took cash only, and wanted a sizable deposit before we went further. I had a really sketchy feeling. Told him I'd get back to him, cause I didn't have that kind of dough on me.

Another shop, recommended to me buy a local dealer, seemed solid. Took the heads to the guy, talked with him for a while. Legit storefront, small garage with 3 lifts, and nice, newer vehicles on them, etc. Here's the work being preformed:
-Clean heads
-Disasemble
-Measure springs, measure valve stems, measure valve guides.
-Check for warping/straightness
-Magnaflux for cracks
-Grind valve seats
-Grind valves

If the guides need work, or the heads need to be milled, it will be extra. Same thing with parts. I'm not going to replace springs unless they need to be, since the truck rarely sees above 3,000 rpm. When I do my custom engine build up, no doubt new springs will be put in. Should have the heads back by middle of next week.

3) Placed orders for parts. Getting them from www.FordPartsNetwork.com , www.SummitRacing.com , and www.50resto.com . Expensive expensive. I'm doing it with quality Ford, Ford MotorSport, Fel-Pro, and upgraded aftermarket. Don't want to take any chances here.

Parts ordered include:
-FMS Graphite Head gaskets
-Bonded metal/ruber valve cover gaskets
-Ford Exhaust manifold gaskets
-Ford gaskets for TB, EGR, IAC, Intake elbow, etc.
-Fel-Pro GT40 Lower/Upper Intake and thermostat set
-Fuel injector o-rings
-New head bolts
-New exhaust manifold bolts
-New Valve Cover bolts
-New Motorcraft thermostat
-Acell High Power EDIS coil packs
-Taylor Spira pro ignition wires
-Ignition wire/spark plug heat sheild material
-Bosch O2 sensors (for before the cats)
-Lots o' RTV, oil, antifreeze, brake cleaner, gloves, yada yada.
and so much more... $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[RacerX]

Wow, you're really doin' it up right. I'm still kicking myself for missing the obvious headgasket problem, what with misfire problem entirely located in two adjacent cylinders.

Hope it all goes back together smoothly.

 

[85Dave]

Ring ridge in cylinder is normal. Not a problem if you are not removing pistons.

What usually happens to me is that I need all new valves, surface milled, new springs, new valve guides, etc. In some cases, its cheaper to get new heads. Get a quote on everything before he gets too deep into it. Might want to start your upgrade now with new heads.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Just got word from the machine shop:

- No Cracks after maganflux
- Heads ARE warped about six thousandths out
- Valve guides are loose
- Springs are OK
- Valves are OK

Work will be:
- Head resurfacing/milling, taken ten thousands off
- Valve guides will be knurled
- Seats/valves ground

This will be done for $350 for the pair, should be done tomorrow afternoon.

 

[RacerX]

Just got word from the machine shop:

- No Cracks after maganflux
- Heads ARE warped about six thousandths out
- Valve guides are loose
- Springs are OK
- Valves are OK

Work will be:
- Head resurfacing/milling, taken ten thousands off
- Valve guides will be knurled
- Seats/valves ground

This will be done for $350 for the pair, should be done tomorrow afternoon.

Perhaps my information on this is outdated, but I thought that knurling valve guides was a half-way measure and not known for longevity. It doesn't seem like oil migration past the valves was a big part of your problem (so knurling may be adequate in your case), but since the heads are off, how much more would it cost to install new valve guides?

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Perhaps my information on this is outdated, but I thought that knurling valve guides was a half-way measure and not known for longevity. It doesn't seem like oil migration past the valves was a big part of your problem (so knurling may be adequate in your case), but since the heads are off, how much more would it cost to install new valve guides?

Racer X-
Thanks for getting back so quickly!! I called the machinist, and new valve guides would only be $50 more. He seemed to think it would not be the smartest option in this case. He felt that the guides could be re-used as-is, but knurling would freshen them up and help in future oil control. New guides would mean boring more metal out of the head, while knurling would not.

Besides the warping, he said the the heads were in decent shape, and feels that the gasket/warping was the problem, even though I got air through the #2 intake during the leakdown.

Does the FMS Graphite Head gasket kit come with valve guide seals?

 

[RacerX]

Racer X-
Thanks for getting back so quickly!! I called the machinist, and new valve guides would only be $50 more. He seemed to think it would not be the smartest option in this case. He felt that the guides could be re-used as-is, but knurling would freshen them up and help in future oil control. New guides would mean boring more metal out of the head, while knurling would not.

Besides the warping, he said the the heads were in decent shape, and feels that the gasket/warping was the problem, even though I got air through the #2 intake during the leakdown.

Does the FMS Graphite Head gasket kit come with valve guide seals?

The machinist knows the details better than I do, but it sounds like the guides are "close enough" to spec that knurling will do the job. Still, it's good to ask (and many machine shops will happily sell you something you don't really need - looks like you found an honest guy).

I'm not sure about the contents of the FMS gasket kit, but someone else here will answer that for you, I have no doubt.

 

[85Dave]

If you are planning on new heads in a couple of years anyway, get the guides knurled.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Some questions:

1) I have the Graphite FMS head gaskets, they look really nice. Do I need to put any kind of sealer/grease/etc between the gaskets and the block or head????

2) What about the intake manifold gaskets?

3) The cylinder head bolts do not need retorquing, correct?

 

[Glacier991]

Aaron... first of all, knurling is not a bad was to go on the valves. Secondly, cylinder head bolts will need to be torqued incrementally in the proper sequence to final torgue values. As for the gaskets, I don't think anything is needed on the gaskets... didn't the mfgr say anything?

 

[james t]

Use alot of RTV on the front/rear part of the lower intake gasket instead of the gasket itself.