HID Flicker ( I used a relay harness)

[jeff4912]

2003 Ford Explorer XLT. Installed the HID system with the relay harness and upon initial lighting, both lights flickered for a bout 10 minutes then settled down.

If I turned the engine off and kept the lights on, the flicker stopped. Turn engine back on...flicker

Flicker eventually stopped completely on the passenger side HID but I still get some flicker on the driver side light, usually upon cold start up and then it usually will settle down.

Any ideas why the DS HID does this. Was the initial flicker what they call the "burn in "period and maybe over time the DS HID will settle down too.

Just installed today, so I have not used the HID's much yet. Drove for 30 minutes to store with them on today, thats it.

Thanks for any input. Love the lights.

 

[waskly]

hid normally flicker when they dont get 12 volts... or low voltage to them....
when first ignited. check the igniter boxes.

 

[jeff4912]

Ballast and ignitor contained in same ballast box.

Each HID has an independent ground, so I will recheck the DS ground. Curently grounded to chasis.

 

[waskly]

are they getting 12 volts or lower when you turn them on?

 

[jeff4912]

are they getting 12 volts or lower when you turn them on?

I have a auto headlight option and at start up of engine, the HID's fire no problem, so I assume they are getting at least 12V. I don't have a multi meter to check.

Also, the DS flicker only occurs now after the car has sat a while and then is restarted and the flicker now seems to go away after about 15 seconds.

Weird...maybe it will sort itself out.

My connections have been double checked and are good.

 

[OneLever]

I have a auto headlight option

As in Daytime running lights?

 

[jeff4912]

As in Daytime running lights?

No, the light sensing type that when the sun goes down, the photocell senses the dark and turns the headlights on automatically.

 

[OneLever]

If I turned the engine off and kept the lights on, the flicker stopped. Turn engine back on...flicker

The major thing that changes between these two situations is that with the engine off you are drawing power from the battery. With the engine on you are drawing power from the alternator.

I have noticed headlight, dash light, etc. flicker from my truck in cold weather (below 50 degrees Fahrenheit). This happens after engine startup and lasts until it reaches operating temperature. My starter motor, battery, and alternator are all less than a year old. I believe that the voltage regulator on my alternator is faulty and not correctly damping the AC voltage produced by the alternator. This may be the same case for you.

 

[jeff4912]

The major thing that changes between these two situations is that with the engine off you are drawing power from the battery. With the engine on you are drawing power from the alternator.

I have noticed headlight, dash light, etc. flicker from my truck in cold weather (below 50 degrees Fahrenheit). This happens after engine startup and lasts until it reaches operating temperature. My starter motor, battery, and alternator are all less than a year old. I believe that the voltage regulator on my alternator is faulty and not correctly damping the AC voltage produced by the alternator. This may be the same case for you.

That is exactly what is happening.

Started the engine this morning and both lights flickering alot so I turned off the engine and they were both burning perfectly steady.

Engine back on and they flicker, but I could tell that it was smoothing out as the engine warmed up.

38f outside temp and the car sits outside at night.

 

[jeff4912]

Would a Capacitor fix the flicker?

 

[OneLever]

There are some heavy duty diodes that rectify the AC current the alternator produces. I get the feeling that they used cheaper ones in these remanufactured alternators that I got at Autozone (Duralast brand). And that they don't operate as well at low temperatures. The flicker becomes very obvious around 40* F.

I just tested the DC voltage across my battery terminals after letting the truck sit for three hours at 25*F. Before engine start the battery voltage was 12.24 V. Immediately after engine start voltage across the terminals varied at 13.93-14.22 V (+/- 0.3 V). After about five minutes it varied at 14.08-14.26 V (+/- 0.2 V). I suspect if it was left running longer that variance would drop even more. I have no reliable way of measuring low AC voltages.

The Duralast reman. alternator I have is rated at the stock 130 Amperes. What brand do you have, and hold old is it?

Would a Capacitor fix the flicker?

You shouldn't need a capacitor if the alternator's voltage regulator is working correctly.

 

[jeff4912]

Its the original alternator 107k miles.

I think I will try a noise filter or capacitor on my power lead for the HID's coming off of the battery.

I think that would help smooth the current flow and stop the flicker....in theory.

 

[OneLever]

I measured the DC voltage across my battery terminals after letting the engine idle for 15 minutes and being driven 5 minutes more. The reading was at 14.45-14.48 V (0.03 V variance) with much smaller fluctuations. Directly after turning off the engine reading was at about 12.90 V and dropping. Just measured again after letting the truck sit for an hour at 22* F and got 12.59 V.

Although it was the first thing I thought of awhile back as well I don't think a capacitor is the solution. First of all you have to make sure you get the right one for where it is placed. It would smooth out the fluctuations, but it would not change the fact that you are getting less power than you need. If the top of your voltage peak is where you need it to be consistently to run the truck and you put a capacitor on it. Then it will simply not spike up to that needed level, and will stay at the middle point between the peak and minimum.

You will solve the fluctuations but you will not solve the lack of power.

 

[OneLever]

Opinions?

Update:

As the temperatures drop even lower I can hear the truck pulsating more heavily when I start it and the period between pulses is increasing. This morning it was 19*F outside and I checked the voltage directly after engine start after sitting overnight. Reading was at 13.63-14.41 V (0.80 V variance roughly) and idle RPMs were lower than normal (700 rpm) at around 500 rpm. After idling for ten minutes the pulsating and flicker died down again but still remains in diminished form.

Because the engine is revving up and down more heavily as the temperature gets lower I'm beginning to think this is not an issue with the diodes in the alternator. But instead the contact brushes inside it which maintain connection with the rotor. I wonder if there is a dielectric spray that can be used to alleviate this cold start friction without interfering with the other components? Should not contain silicone because that apparently kills oxygen sensors.

I have also read about people attributing this behavior to the drivebelt slipping from being worn larger. The condition of my belt appears good but my tensioner looks like it is maxed out. The shop manual doesn't mention anything about the scribe marks. But intuitively I would think the upwards pointing arrow should fall within the green zone. The tensioner loosens by rotating clockwise.

Drivebelt Tensioner

 

[jeff4912]

Thanks for the continued ideas Onelever. I had my battery and alternator checked and they were both in good health.

I am waiting for some plug and play capacitors to arrive that I bought to see if they do the trick. $8.50 so worth a try.

 

[OneLever]

I've been scouring other forums for hours to find information on the 5.0L 302 Windsor tensioner belt wear indicator (every combination of those terms I could use) to figure out what it's supposed to be at. It is a difficult picture to get a hold of, but after seeing similar pictures and lots of comments. I now believe the upward facing arrow is supposed to fall somewhere within the notch, which it barely is, and not the green zone. This would still mean the belt has worn large but not by as much as I thought.

I'm going to order a new drive belt and measure the size of the old one when it gets here. The brands Gates and Gatorback seem to have a good consensus. The OEM Motorcraft brand is available at RockAuto but I am concerned with the rubber degrading if it was manufactured back then and has been just sitting around.


Edit:

Of course right after posting that I decided to try the original search function of the forum instead of the Google search function at the top one last time. This thread popped up mentioning "triangle with three marks". Looking for "three marks" I now noticed the three lines in my picture above which are on the metal exterior of the tensioner. The notch in the plastic adjacent to the green paint is likely coincidence.

With this new information the question becomes: What are the range designations for belt wear between those three lines?

Drivebelt Tensioner Markings

 

[jeff4912]

Tried capacitors and they did not stop the flicker.

I think a aftermarket DRL (daytime running light) module that I installed years ago is interfering with the HID's. So the HID's are out and the halogens are back in...Like my DRL's too much to remove them.

My 4300k, 9006 bulb HID kit with plug and play capacitors and relay harness is for sale. $50 plus USPS to your door.
PM if interested.

 

[OneLever]

Did removing the HIDs and reverting to halogens solve the problem?

 

[jeff4912]

Did removing the HIDs and reverting to halogens solve the problem?

Yes it did. BTW thanks for your input, I appreciate it.

 

[OneLever]

You're welcome. We were probably tracking down two separate issues.

I have come to the conclusion that my drivebelt is not slipping and that the marks above stand for: Line 1 = Maximum tension, Line 2 = New belt tension, Line 3 = Minimum tension. This isn't listed in the Haynes manual, shop manual, Explorerforum, or multiple mustang forums. I still believe that the voltage regulator on my alternator, or the wires to it, are the root cause of my particular issue.