How do you equalize parking brake cables?

[BonesDT]

V8Boat,
Here's my "Project Rear End" thread. Lot's of pictures of me replacing the internal p-brake components:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226278

 

[Scott B.]

Bones,

I wasn't saying bad about Raybestos - I've heard only good about their products.

I'm pretty sure Ford uses (at least used) Bendix for their OEM parts, and I've always used Bendix Brakes parts - never had a problem.

But, given their part numbers are essentially the same, you gotta wonder...

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Not all e-brake components are created equal!

I made a lot of progress today, swapping some things out:
1) RH Rear ebrake cable. Was Raybestos, now it's a Dorman. The Dorman is lightyears ahead of the Raybestos; the eyelet at the e-brake is the correct size, the cable is thicker, and the spring is longer. We'll see how it lasts, the Raybestos was partially seized after 2 years.
2) Wagner shoes instead of Autozone shoes. The friction is thicker and covers more of the metal backing. And they hold.

Still have some tweeking to do, she'll creep when reved passed 1100 rpm, but holds great at idle. I'll post more photos in my thread.

 

[96eb96]

Not all e-brake components are created equal!

I made a lot of progress today, swapping some things out:
1) RH Rear ebrake cable. Was Raybestos, now it's a Dorman. The Dorman is lightyears ahead of the Raybestos; the eyelet at the e-brake is the correct size, the cable is thicker, and the spring is longer. We'll see how it lasts, the Raybestos was partially seized after 2 years.
2) Wagner shoes instead of Autozone shoes. The friction is thicker and covers more of the metal backing. And they hold.

Still have some tweeking to do, she'll creep when reved passed 1100 rpm, but holds great at idle. I'll post more photos in my thread.

NAPA and Raybestos E-brake cables are garbage (they are both made by the same company with the same part #). They will last 1 year max before they completely seize up and ruin your parking shoes. My explorer cable got "Crimped" at at one end and was impossible to budge it even with pliers. The cables don't even fit right to start(clips), the fittings are very flimsy, and its almost like their product is a joke.

I have this experience with my Explorer and 2 other cars. NAPA will gladly give you a new cable, but obviously everything has to be torn down and redone. This is one case where a lifetime warranty is completely pointless. No wonder why they are $20. I will NEVER purchase that product again.

Dorman/Tru-Torque from what I've seen have exposed metal, non coated cables, so if you live in the salt belt this isn't a good idea. They do look like a better alternative though. Their springs and fittings are a closer match to OEM. If you get these cables put as much anti-seize as you can on the metal cable. They are made in China.

Hate to say it, but if you want the best you have to bite the bullet and buy Ford. But even those fail, but its usually after 10 years or 100K miles.

 

[BonesDT]

she'll creep when reved passed 1100 rpm, but holds great at idle. I'll post more photos in my thread.

You're way past me! I'm still working on stopping it from creeping with the engine off.

I just picked up a brand new pedal assembly from the dealership, $122 out the door. Comes with the pedal cable so I can replace the ill-fitting Raybestos one. I've been lurking around ebay this whole time, but no sign of this exact model assembly, so I bit the dealership bullet.

If this doesn't fix it, then I think I'm going to go insane.

Thanks for the tips on the brands. I'm def going to pick Dorman's from now on. The Lokars are not coated cables either, which worried me a little, but you can pull the cable all the way out (actually you have to to cut them), so I lubed them up nice with Lithium grease gun grease. You got to love servicable parts!

 

[96eb96]

You're way past me! I'm still working on stopping it from creeping with the engine off.

I just picked up a brand new pedal assembly from the dealership, $122 out the door. Comes with the pedal cable so I can replace the ill-fitting Raybestos one. I've been lurking around ebay this whole time, but no sign of this exact model assembly, so I bit the dealership bullet.

If this doesn't fix it, then I think I'm going to go insane.

Thanks for the tips on the brands. I'm def going to pick Dorman's from now on. The Lokars are not coated cables either, which worried me a little, but you can pull the cable all the way out (actually you have to to cut them), so I lubed them up nice with Lithium grease gun grease. You got to love servicable parts!

Another problem with the NAPA/Raybestos is the the coating seems to help the cable seize up. The coating isn't "frictionless" and seems to grab even when new. Eventually this contributes to the final demise(among other problems). When the coating stretches and flexes I believe it expands a bit. The OEM coating seems MUCH smoother (like a teflon). The exterior plastic, movable tubing pieces are also a joke, its supposed to be fixed in place on the cable to prevent chafing. It says made in the USA, I kind of believe it, these cables look like they are made by a stoned teenager in their basement.

I'm trying Wagner on another car, looks like a better product too. They claim to inject grease into the housing, so maybe that will help:

http://www.federalmogul.com/en/Afte...draulicParts/WagnerHydraulicParts/BrakeCable/

I think the metal cables are a better choice, they can be lubed once a year as part of yearly maintenance.

Its amazing how such a low tech item as a BRAKE CABLE, which has probably been around probably for 2 centuries in one form or another, can't be perfected and last the life of the car. :thumbdwn:. These explorer brakes must have been repaired 5X in the last decade by myself and others for various reasons. When I first got the ex the dealer spent almost a day on those brakes (they were really screwed up). A tech I know says its rare for an ex to pass inspection without parking brake work!

If you can't get the brakes to work make sure the mechanism in on the axle is perfect, rust free and frictionless. Use wire brushes or whatever to clean it. Use lots of synthetic brake lube on every metal part. Then there is the art of adjusting the shoes, problem with that is they never retract properly after a few uses and they get glazed and destroyed. There is always some friction, cable lash, whatever that causes this. Also the pedal mechanism is flimsy. Sometimes it does not preload the cable properly, and the brakes never have a chance to work. I'm surprised they didn't use caliper parking brakes, they seem to be more reliable.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

A tech I know says its rare for an ex to pass inspection without parking brake work!... Then there is the art of adjusting the shoes, problem with that is they never retract properly after a few uses and they get glazed and destroyed.

Keeping my fingers crossed they work until the first week of Jan so I can get my sticker!!!

 

[BonesDT]

I just picked up a brand new pedal assembly from the dealership, $122 out the door.... If this doesn't fix it, then I think I'm going to go insane.

The new pedal assembly didn't make any difference. I completely forgot how the pedal is suppose to feel, but isn't it suppose to make subtle clicks as you push it down to the floor. It just moves about an inch or two and it feels like nothing is budging, like all I'm doing is stretching cable. I just don't understand what's wrong. BTW, the pedal assembly comes with the pedal cable, and I see Ford upgraded it from the original. The end that pushes into the bracket hole on the frame is no longer metal, but a hardened plastic, probably helps with the rusting up.

On a separate note, while we're studying the quality of the different companies, I need a new Master Cylinder for my '89 Dodge Dakota. Here are my options:

A-1 Cardone Reman 10-2393 $20
Cardone Select 13-2393 $54
pros: great website, lots of online literature

Dorman M39638 $41
Raybestos MC39638 $62
pros: great websites (note the same part #s)

Bendix 12396 $44
cons: website sucks, no part lookup, can't tell if this is a reman or new

ACDelco 18M356 $79
pro: great website con: GM part on a Dodge

Wagner MC114497 $90
cons: website sucks, no part lookup, but looks like a good company

Centric Premium 130.6701 0 $81
cons: website sucks

PBR W0133-1622469 $139
cons: import brand on a Dodge

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

The new pedal assembly didn't make any difference. I completely forgot how the pedal is suppose to feel, but isn't it suppose to make subtle clicks as you push it down to the floor. It just moves about an inch or two and it feels like nothing is budging, like all I'm doing is stretching cable.

The "new style" pedal assembly, such as the one on my 2000 Ranger does not click and is completely silent.

 

[96eb96]

I just picked up a brand new pedal assembly from the dealership, $122 out the door.... If this doesn't fix it, then I think I'm going to go insane.

The new pedal assembly didn't make any difference. I completely forgot how the pedal is suppose to feel, but isn't it suppose to make subtle clicks as you push it down to the floor. It just moves about an inch or two and it feels like nothing is budging, like all I'm doing is stretching cable. I just don't understand what's wrong. BTW, the pedal assembly comes with the pedal cable, and I see Ford upgraded it from the original. The end that pushes into the bracket hole on the frame is no longer metal, but a hardened plastic, probably helps with the rusting up.

On a separate note, while we're studying the quality of the different companies, I need a new Master Cylinder for my '89 Dodge Dakota. Here are my options:

A-1 Cardone Reman 10-2393 $20
Cardone Select 13-2393 $54
pros: great website, lots of online literature

Dorman M39638 $41
Raybestos MC39638 $62
pros: great websites (note the same part #s)

Bendix 12396 $44
cons: website sucks, no part lookup, can't tell if this is a reman or new

ACDelco 18M356 $79
pro: great website con: GM part on a Dodge

Wagner MC114497 $90
cons: website sucks, no part lookup, but looks like a good company

Centric Premium 130.6701 0 $81
cons: website sucks

PBR W0133-1622469 $139
cons: import brand on a Dodge

Bendix is probably the best choice, they are probably the OEM. Second would be cardone.

Did you tension your foot brake correctly? There is a procedure to follow.

 

[BonesDT]

Did you tension your foot brake correctly? There is a procedure to follow.

I don't know, what's the procedure?

I leave the pedal in the highest position (parking brake fully off), then I pull the pedal cable all the way out (feeling the spring in the pedal assembly), and hook it up with the intermediate cable, then let it snap about 1-1.5" into place.

I just removed the brand new pedal assembly last night in the blistering cold. I have installed & removed this p-brake pedal assembly over 1 million times. You wouldn't believe how good I got with a box wrench in tight places! I'm hoping I can return the assembly to the dealership, will they take it back?

Well, I guess it's back to going into the p-brakes themselves. I got an Aussie to reinstall, so I'm going to take a look inside again and clean things up more and make sure everything is moving freely. This has me stumped so bad, thank goodness it's not required to drive, the Ex would have some major cob webs right now.

 

[gijoecam]

Have you looked at the parking brake actuators? The little arms that the ends of the cables hook to.... they're actually two pieces and they should scissor against each other to lever the shoes apart. Are they moving like they should?

 

[96eb96]

I don't know, what's the procedure?

I leave the pedal in the highest position (parking brake fully off), then I pull the pedal cable all the way out (feeling the spring in the pedal assembly), and hook it up with the intermediate cable, then let it snap about 1-1.5" into place.

I just removed the brand new pedal assembly last night in the blistering cold. I have installed & removed this p-brake pedal assembly over 1 million times. You wouldn't believe how good I got with a box wrench in tight places! I'm hoping I can return the assembly to the dealership, will they take it back?

Well, I guess it's back to going into the p-brakes themselves. I got an Aussie to reinstall, so I'm going to take a look inside again and clean things up more and make sure everything is moving freely. This has me stumped so bad, thank goodness it's not required to drive, the Ex would have some major cob webs right now.

Yeah, I take my hat off to anyone who works in this cold. You are going to need the parking brake to pass inspections.

If its not damaged non electrical parts are returnable, no problem. I noticed you have fancy ebrake cables (they look stainess steel). Are they exactly the right length? Do they equalize properly?

Also, make sure the two pawl levers in the axle are completely rust free and coated with a good quality brake grease, either synthetic(or ceramic) brake grease(counter at advance auto) or a thin coat of moly grease (high temp). You put so much effort into that axle and those are probably the pieces that need it most! Do the same for any metal contact surfaces on the backing plate. Any metal to metal contact must have grease and no rust!

Mine were seized together. I used a wire brush and naval jelly, then coated them in grease. From what I saw in your rear end thread the actuators look horrible, maybe worse than mine!.

As long as there is tension preload on the brake cables you should be fine.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Bones - after all the blah blah, I went for my inspection today and they didn't rev the engine at all!! He tested it once with his foot off the service brake (truck in Drive), and then again with the truck barely rolling and then he applied the e-brake, the truck stopped quickly.

However, before I took it into inspection, I got the brake the point where I could rev to about 1200 in 1st gear, with my 4.56 axles and it would hold. 1300rpm and it would creep, but struggle.

I sanded the living daylights out of the insides of the rotors - that made a HUGE difference.

 

[BonesDT]

Have you looked at the parking brake actuators? The little arms that the ends of the cables hook to.... they're actually two pieces and they should scissor against each other to lever the shoes apart. Are they moving like they should?

Also, make sure the two pawl levers in the axle are completely rust free and coated with a good quality brake grease, either synthetic(or ceramic) brake grease(counter at advance auto) or a thin coat of moly grease (high temp). You put so much effort into that axle and those are probably the pieces that need it most! Do the same for any metal contact surfaces on the backing plate. Any metal to metal contact must have grease and no rust!

Mine were seized together. I used a wire brush and naval jelly, then coated them in grease. From what I saw in your rear end thread the actuators look horrible, maybe worse than mine!.

As long as there is tension preload on the brake cables you should be fine.

Yea, this is the now what I've been thinking about. I'll def take a look when I pull the c-clips.

I noticed you have fancy ebrake cables (they look stainess steel). Are they exactly the right length? Do they equalize properly?

Yes, they are fancy, stainless steel and made by Lokar. Hopefully I have them cinched up at the exact length + or - human/Murphy's law error. They actually do not "equalize" like the OEM system does. It actually could work better in a way. The OEM system will pull both cables, but if a cable has more resistance (seized up), then it will pull one of the cables more than the other. The Lokar kit, both cables will be pulled the same amount no matter what. If one cable only moves 0.5", then the other one moves that much too. You know what, don't listen to me, I don't even know anymore. I'm the one with the broken p-brake.

I sanded the living daylights out of the insides of the rotors - that made a HUGE difference.

Yea, the inside of my rotors (Power Slot) are a rust nightmare. Maybe it's because of years of never having a p-brake pad touch them. I don't even know how I could begin to sand them. Maybe I'll take them to a shop to resurface.

 

[96eb96]

Yea, the inside of my rotors (Power Slot) are a rust nightmare. Maybe it's because of years of never having a p-brake pad touch them. I don't even know how I could begin to sand them. Maybe I'll take them to a shop to resurface.

Not maybe, definately. This is why they are not grabbing. They can definately be resurfaced, some shops will say they are too small but I've had it done.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Yea, the inside of my rotors (Power Slot) are a rust nightmare. Maybe it's because of years of never having a p-brake pad touch them. I don't even know how I could begin to sand them. Maybe I'll take them to a shop to resurface.

AH HA! I bet the rust is affecting your holding power, it was affecting mine.

Sanding isn't complicated at all. I just took some normal 150 grit sand paper and worked the inside of the drum until it was shiny, then cleaned it up with brake cleaner. You will get the rust off, you will not make it out of round. Don't worry, just attack.

Also, the rust on the rotors AND the rust on the levers was keeping one side from retracting all the way. As 96eb96 recommended, I sanded the levers and coated them with grease, and the brake works OK.

 

[BonesDT]

OK. I tore apart the axles and reassembled the whole p-brake shoe system. I lubed up the the backing plate where the shoes rub and the 2-piece levers.

I'm ordering brand new Power Slot Cryo rotors, so that will take care of the rust inside the drums.

So, without rotors on, so I can see what's happening, I get in the truck and push the pedal down. Felt pretty normal and almost got excited. I inspected the mechanisms and the pads expanded nicely. But then I release the pedal and the pads didn't retracted but not completely. I went in there and gave some taps with a hammer to see if something is catching and try to jar something loose, nothing. I then pull on the intermediate cable and the cables slide rearward and the shoes fully retract. I tried this a couple of times and the shoes won't fully retract on their own, I need to give the little tug on the cables.

I have both the inboard and outboard top springs on. Those bad boys are tight, and you would think they are enough pressure to squeeze the shoes back together, but it's not cutting it.

 

[V8BoatBuilder]

Sounds like something in the cables is binding, not allowing them to retract. When you release the footpedal, are all cables losing tension?

 

[BonesDT]

Sounds like something in the cables is binding, not allowing them to retract. When you release the footpedal, are all cables losing tension?

Well, that's now the current theory, Theory #231. That also happens to be the same as Theory #1.

There seems to be friction in either the right, left, or both rear cables now. It's odd because I replaced these cables 3 times, and I still have binding. I was extra cautious and cut the Lokar cables long, especially the shorter driver's side cable. I guess I have an exagerated view on what kind of flex my rear suspension is capable of. I think the overkill length is making the bends too tight.

Actually, almost most of the system seems to be working now. If I get a strong spring and attach it to the frame and the equalizer on the cables, it should make a working patch for it.

Crazy thoughts of driveshaft parking brakes are going through my head now. What I would do for a nice Rockwell type disc on my driveshaft with it's own stand-alone caliper! Do they make a kit to mount a caliper to either the BW1354 t-case of the 8.8 axle?? The t-case is better to keep it clear of rocks, but the Ford's 8.8 flange and holes (designed for the V8 traction bar) make a perfect place to mount a p-brake caliper!