Insidious Ping!

[timfretwell]

Okay, here's the story. I bought my 94 XLT 4.0 in November. It only had 40k miles on it and ran great, just got lousy gas mileage. So I found this page and starting tinkering around a little. I cleaned the MAF with choke and carb cleaner, but it really didn't look dirty at all. I also pulled the air tube off from the throtle body and gave the intake a good soaking with the engine fully warm. The T-stat also got changed with a factory spec one (I'm not sure what temp that is but for some reason I'm thinking 185) I then reset the computer by disconnecting the battery. Here's what all of that got me. No change in gas mileage (about 12mpg in town and thats powder puffing like grandma). Factory specs say 15mpg/city. But now I have this ping I can't get rid of! I only use quality name brand fuel, usually Shell or Amoco. I always buy the mid grade 89 octane. According to the manual 87 octane is all that it requires. It just doesn't seem like I should need high octane fuel for this thing to run normal. I have also run several bottles of fuel injection cleaner through her. I can't beleive it needs a tune up at 44k miles! I'm really disappointed and wonder if buying a domestic was a mistake. (I just sold a toyota with a 2.0 that had 144k miles and still ran like new, and I never did anything to it) Needless to say I'm quite frustrated. PLEASE HELP ME OUT HERE.
Thanks

 

[SteveVB]

Ping?

What kind of ping, part throttle, under load, full thottle no load??? Need more info. Does higher octane fuel make the ping go away? Have you had the ping since you bought it?

Get the codes pulled, see what comes up. Thats a start. Do a good diagnostic routine, compression, codes, check for bad vacuum lines etc.

When you cleaned the MAF did you clean the elements, or just the body? Check the idle voltage on the MAF.
Could be a ton of things, but the TPS comes to mind. FPR should be checked also. What do the plugs look like?

What gear ratio do you have? That could explain the poor city milage if its set up for the highway.

Just some thoughts.

 

[sink]

Yes, more details. If no ping before and ping now, could you have opened up an intake air leak by spraying cold cleaner in the hot castings? My ping was easy- MAS filaments looked like they were velvet before I cleaned them.

 

[timfretwell]

Re: Ping?

Originally posted by SteveVB
What kind of ping, part throttle, under load, full thottle no load??? Need more info. Does higher octane fuel make the ping go away? Have you had the ping since you bought it?

Get the codes pulled, see what comes up. Thats a start. Do a good diagnostic routine, compression, codes, check for bad vacuum lines etc.

When you cleaned the MAF did you clean the elements, or just the body? Check the idle voltage on the MAF.
Could be a ton of things, but the TPS comes to mind. FPR should be checked also. What do the plugs look like?

What gear ratio do you have? That could explain the poor city milage if its set up for the highway.

Just some thoughts.

Steve,
Not sure about the gears, but I was told I have a tow package. My tach always seems to run low both in town and on the highway. I have not looked at the plugs, they are supposed to last 100k miles. The ping seems to occur at partial throtle under mild load, and high throtle more load. (basically on any hill at any speed) When I cleaned the MAF, I cleaned the whole thing. Like I said, it really didn't look dirty to start with. One note: When I first bought it, it ran cold all the time, so I replace the T-stat with a factory spec one. Now it runs around the O of normal, but no change in mileage. Am I running in "open loop" mode? What do you think?

 

[timfretwell]

Originally posted by sink
Yes, more details. If no ping before and ping now, could you have opened up an intake air leak by spraying cold cleaner in the hot castings? My ping was easy- MAS filaments looked like they were velvet before I cleaned them.

I don't think so. Actually, when I pulled the air tube off I noticed that is was quite loose. If anything I probably fixed a leak that was letting in unfiltered air that the MAF was not seeing. It's going to a private garage on the 13th for diagnostics. I'll post their findings. Boy, I really hope they find something!

 

[FMNavajo]

As Steve said, check the plugs, specifically #5, the middle one on the drivers side. Check this plug and compare it to another plug, pick one, if #5 is considerabley dirtier than the others you might want to consider replacing the lower intake manifold gasket and cleaning everything on the way to it, you can simply re-torque the lower intake manifold first and see if that helps. You might even want to have the pressure checked on the Fuel Pressure Regulator, first make sure the vacuum line is still attached to it. You'll find it attached to the intake manifold on the passenger side, (behind the thermostat area). Check your manual, (not owners manual), i.e.. Haynes Manual.

Good luck,
FM

 

[Bryan Hartman]

Ping ! This is a sound I hear as well . Mostly at a steady speed on the freeway ,speeding up or slowing a little usually makes it go away . I have not gone over the vehicle to check it out yet but I will soon. I cant use any grade of BP gas or it will not run right at all. 89 octane is as low as I can go. Sometimes I have to run SUNOCO 94.

 

[Triton46]

I know this problem all to well. I can sum it for you in one acronym or three words. FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). Do a search and change this part out to receive normal mileage.

 

[Bryan Hartman]

PING

good deal! Triton thanks I will look into this regulator . It seems like this might be the cause of two other problems I am having as well. thanks bryan

 

[timfretwell]

Originally posted by Bryan Hartman
Ping ! This is a sound I hear as well . Mostly at a steady speed on the freeway ,speeding up or slowing a little usually makes it go away . I have not gone over the vehicle to check it out yet but I will soon. I cant use any grade of BP gas or it will not run right at all. 89 octane is as low as I can go. Sometimes I have to run SUNOCO 94.

Bryan,
Something you may want to check out. I had the exact same symptoms on my 87' Ranger. It went on for years without any "check engine" light. I finally had the codes checked while at the garage one day. It turned out that my EGR valve was not being controlled properly. On the highway the engine timing was being advanced by the ignition computer in anticipation of "extra gas" being introduced by the EGR, which ofcourse was not opening like it should. After the repair it ran like a new truck and got much better mileage. I'm hopeing that they find something like that on my Explorer when it goes to the garage next week.

Thanks to everyone for all the good tips. I'll pull that #5 plug to get a look at it, and check that FPR vacuum line.

 

[Bryan Hartman]

Thanks Tim, I will check it out.

 

[01EB5.0]

I dunno if it makes a difference, but carb and choke cleaner is not what is to be used in the throttle body. SOme carb and choke cleaner will remove a protective coating on the throttle body that is supposed ot be there. You are supposed to use only products that say they will not remove the coating or products especailly made for throttle bodies.

 

[rockylaurence]

Broken Filament on MAS?

Could you have damaged one of the filaments during cleaning or it may have been already damaged? They are very delicate.

 

[fordkrazy]

im going to go with 95xlt on this one and say that you shouldnt have used carb cleaner. it has a light weight penitrating oil in it to lube up butterfly valve bushings and various small moving parts found in a carburator. you should have used brake cleaner. the brand i used was CRC non-clorinated brake parts cleaner. also you should look into new O2 sensors and a FPR and possibly a TPS. ive done lots of maintainance and i have a ping on the highway up hills. i just use 89 octane and this solves my problem.

 

[timfretwell]

Originally posted by 95XLT
I dunno if it makes a difference, but carb and choke cleaner is not what is to be used in the throttle body. SOme carb and choke cleaner will remove a protective coating on the throttle body that is supposed ot be there. You are supposed to use only products that say they will not remove the coating or products especailly made for throttle bodies.

Bryan,
Yea, I've read this before too. I specifically asked the guy at Advance Auto where I bought the stuff if it was safe. He told me there was no difference, accept the price. Now I'm not sure if he really knew what he was talking about! Imagine that, a sales person who doesn't know what they are talking about! How often does that ever happen!!

What I'm thinking now is that my truck has a problem that the computer had tuned itself for, and when I cleared the computer I cleared the that tuning data. What I'm not sure about is how long it takes the computer to re-tune itself.....

 

[SteveVB]

Never listen to sales guys

May want to reclean the MAF, check the O2 and the TPS and the EVP(EGR valve position sensor) . Did you get the codes pulled?

Computer doesnt take too long to adjust.
Sensor adjustments take place in seconds(if not tenths of seconds) So if it was a sensor the computer adjusts for it almost immediately.

The adaptive learning ( in the KAM)takes a bit longer. Usually about 5-10 minutes after the vehicle is warm. Adaptive learning takes into account driving style and conditions. Thats the reason a lot of people have drivability probs after a big change in the weather, or after a long trip at certian speeds, or after adding a "mod".

You can disconnect the bat and do it a bit faster, by restarting , idle for a minute and then 10 miles or so of in town driving. The adaptive control will continuously relearn the driving conditions as you drive and store them in the KAM until the batt is disconnected again.

 

[Bryan Hartman]

I have wiped the throttle body out and blew the maf sensor off with air. I know not to use any spray cleaners in the throttle body due to the protective coating. Only some of the older ones you can clean with spray cleaner like the older 5.0 mustangs

 

[timfretwell]

Re: Never listen to sales guys

Steve,
Got my explorer back from the shop last week. They put new plugs, plug wires, and new fuel filter on. The ping is gone! They said the FPR, EGR, and O2s all checked okay, and no error codes logged. I just can't get over the plugs and wires being bad at only 44k miles. Also, he told me not to worry about the carb spray, if it had damaged the coating that I would definately know. It seems to run alot better, I'll make another post in a couple weeks when I know for sure what the gas mileage is.

Originally posted by SteveVB
May want to reclean the MAF, check the O2 and the TPS and the EVP(EGR valve position sensor) . Did you get the codes pulled?

Computer doesnt take too long to adjust.
Sensor adjustments take place in seconds(if not tenths of seconds) So if it was a sensor the computer adjusts for it almost immediately.

The adaptive learning ( in the KAM)takes a bit longer. Usually about 5-10 minutes after the vehicle is warm. Adaptive learning takes into account driving style and conditions. Thats the reason a lot of people have drivability probs after a big change in the weather, or after a long trip at certian speeds, or after adding a "mod".

You can disconnect the bat and do it a bit faster, by restarting , idle for a minute and then 10 miles or so of in town driving. The adaptive control will continuously relearn the driving conditions as you drive and store them in the KAM until the batt is disconnected again.

 

[flyguy]

Good to hear it! Im thinking my plugs might be goin bad as well... when my 02s were bad I was fouling plugs pretty quick. Havent changed em again.. gunna check em tomorrow. Anyways... how important is the EGR unit? I just replaced the EGR Valve.. but Im still getting the code... so it must be the EGR regulator thing eh? I forget what its called.. that might be close though!

nick

 

[timfretwell]

Originally posted by flyguy
Good to hear it! Im thinking my plugs might be goin bad as well... when my 02s were bad I was fouling plugs pretty quick. Havent changed em again.. gunna check em tomorrow. Anyways... how important is the EGR unit? I just replaced the EGR Valve.. but Im still getting the code... so it must be the EGR regulator thing eh? I forget what its called.. that might be close though!

nick

Yea Nick,
It sounds as if the EGR is not being controlled properly. I can't remember what the thing is called either. I had it replaced on my Ranger a couple years ago, didn't cost too much, and man, it ran like a new truck. It's error buffer was full of EGR codes at the time, but my EGR vavle was ok also.

Tim