Just pulled engine - Questions

[shane10]

Hi all, replacing front/rear timing components. First time pulling an engine, other than some tight clearances it came out pretty easy with a couple days of work. Just have some questions before I proceed.
1. Engine to trans dowel pins - Only way I've found to safely remove these is with a slide hammer/vice grip attachment, would like to avoid buying even more tools if at all possible. Is there any other way to get these out? My engine stand mounts fit almost perfectly over the outer diameter of the dowel, and the bolt is only slightly smaller than the hole, with not much play, feels very secure. Would it be safe to leave the dowel in and put it on the stand? Or will I risk breaking the dowel off in the block and cause myself even more trouble.
2. Torque converter - After I removed the engine, I let the trans bell housing rest on a jack stand and made sure the torque converter didn't get pulled off with the engine. I pushed in lightly while spinning and noticed while it does spin, it clunks while doing so, not smooth at all. Having never even laid eyes on a TC until now, I left it alone. Is it likely that the TC did come off slightly and is simply not seated properly? Did something break?
3 - Once the engine was removed, I pulled off the fuel rails just to clear space up, some of the fuel was released and pooled into the crevice between the cylinder heads. No biggie, except it started to bubble/drain... Looked like cracked metal at first, but upon poking around it appeared to be some sort of filler? Definitely not aluminum, the best I can describe is a soft clay like material. Is this normal? Is my engine rotting? (Hard to believe, there is little rust around the whole truck).

These are my main concerns before I proceed with anything else. Answers to any/all of the questions are greatly appreciated in advance

EDIT: Forgot about this... When I pulled off the lower radiator hose, I found a surprise. A small straight metal "straw" about 5 inches long, no idea where this could have come from... Any ideas?

 

[410Fortune]

1. leave the dowels in place they will be just fine

2. remove the torque converter, flip it upside down and lay it over a 3-5 gallon bucket. Let is DRAIN for days while you repair the engine
Good idea to drop the transmission pan and let that drain too. Replace the filter and all new fluid when the engine is back in.
DO NOT LET ANYTHING GET INSIDE THE TRANSMISSION COOLER LINES
I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have seen engines replaced just to have the auto trans fail within 100 miles later. This is because 3 drops of water in your cooler lines or any small debris and it can kill your auto trans in short order! Simply cover the ends of the cooler lines while you work on the engine, keep them CLOSED
You will be able to re install the converter properly before you re stab your engine... trust me I have replaced countless 4.0/Explorer engines

3. Will need pictures for item #3 there should be nothing in the "valley" of your engine block but metal and possibly just some buildup of dirt, grease, oil and sometimes the occasional mouse house.

Tips:
Once the engine is repaired and ready to go back in, to make life easier for you and stabbing the engine to the auto transmission do this.
Remove the engine side plates, the mounting plates
Clean the torque converter hub and lube it with vaseline
Stab the converter into the transmission carefully, keep turning it slowly and lifting slightly on teh front of it until it pushes back 3 notches/clicks
Once you are sure the converter is fully seated proceed to lower the engine into the bay
With the engine hanging on the hoist lower it down into position in front of the transmission
Stab the engine to the transmission while it is still hanging on the hoist.
YOU NEED to learn how to stab an engine to an auto transmission properly (research)
If you do it right once the engine is bolted to the transmission with a few bellhousing bolts you should be able to install the first torque converter nut and this should pull the converter forward 3/8". If this is the case, then you have stabbed the engine to trans properly

Now with the engine bolted up to the trans you can use the hoist to raise it back up a few inches and now install the motor mount plates on the side of the block. Lower it back down onto its mounts, and finally remove it from the hoist.

This makes life SO MUCH EASIER

 

[shane10]

1. leave the dowels in place they will be just fine

2. remove the torque converter, flip it upside down and lay it over a 3-5 gallon bucket. Let is DRAIN for days while you repair the engine
Good idea to drop the transmission pan and let that drain too. Replace the filter and all new fluid when the engine is back in.
DO NOT LET ANYTHING GET INSIDE THE TRANSMISSION COOLER LINES
I cannot tell you how many times over the years I have seen engines replaced just to have the auto trans fail within 100 miles later. This is because 3 drops of water in your cooler lines or any small debris and it can kill your auto trans in short order! Simply cover the ends of the cooler lines while you work on the engine, keep them CLOSED
You will be able to re install the converter properly before you re stab your engine... trust me I have replaced countless 4.0/Explorer engines

3. Will need pictures for item #3 there should be nothing in the "valley" of your engine block but metal and possibly just some buildup of dirt, grease, oil and sometimes the occasional mouse house.

Tips:
Once the engine is repaired and ready to go back in, to make life easier for you and stabbing the engine to the auto transmission do this.
Remove the engine side plates, the mounting plates
Clean the torque converter hub and lube it with vaseline
Stab the converter into the transmission carefully, keep turning it slowly and lifting slightly on teh front of it until it pushes back 3 notches/clicks
Once you are sure the converter is fully seated proceed to lower the engine into the bay
With the engine hanging on the hoist lower it down into position in front of the transmission
Stab the engine to the transmission while it is still hanging on the hoist.
YOU NEED to learn how to stab an engine to an auto transmission properly (research)
If you do it right once the engine is bolted to the transmission with a few bellhousing bolts you should be able to install the first torque converter nut and this should pull the converter forward 3/8". If this is the case, then you have stabbed the engine to trans properly

Now with the engine bolted up to the trans you can use the hoist to raise it back up a few inches and now install the motor mount plates on the side of the block. Lower it back down onto its mounts, and finally remove it from the hoist.

This makes life SO MUCH EASIER

1 - Perfect! Exactly the answer I was looking for.

2 - Not a bad idea, am definitely due for a fluid swap with nearly 100k on the trans. Would you suggest pouring new fluid directly into the TC upon installation, or doing it all through the fill plug on the pan and cycling the gears.
I had plugged the lower cooler line simply to stop the flow of tranny fluid and avoid the mess, but left the top uncovered. While I don't think any debris got inside, would it be a good idea to remove the cooler line entirely from the trans and flush them out with something?

3 - I will try to upload a picture shortly. Upon further inspection it may very well be a heavy buildup of dirt/grease. It's appearance and uniformity made me believe otherwise, I picked at it a bit (shame on me) and there is indeed metal underneath all of it. I was just surprised to see that, not much dirt elsewhere and with the plastic pillow type sound dampener that goes into that crevice, I didn't assume that much material could build up underneath there.
Again I will try and upload a pic here shortly.

Thanks for the in depth and informative answers! Exactly what I was looking for. I assumed mating the trans would be a bit more difficult than separating the two, (that took literally no effort just let the hoist do the work). I haven't heard of "stabbing" the engine but will definitely look into it before reassembly.

"If you do it right once the engine is bolted to the transmission with a few bellhousing bolts you should be able to install the first torque converter nut and this should pull the converter forward 3/8"." - I assume you are talking the torque converter to flex plate nut, just to clarify.

Thanks again!

 

[410Fortune]

lube guard has you covered for flushing out the coolers and lines:

Amazon.com: Lubegard 19001 Dr. Tranny Kooler Kleen Trasmission Line Flush, 13.25 oz.: Automotive

Buy Lubegard 19001 Dr. Tranny Kooler Kleen Trasmission Line Flush, 13.25 oz.: Transmission - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

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Yes you will fill your transmission through the pan with a special adapter, the transmission pump will fill the torque converter in short order
Some people will pour 1 quart of fluid into the converter before installation, but that is for a new converter. Yours will still have plenty of fluid buried inside of it.



yes the torque converter only has 4 studs,, so YES I am talking about the nut that goes through the flexplate and then gets tightened down
If you lookup "Stab automatic transmission to engine"
You will see what I am talking about
If not done properly you can damage the front pump and input shaft no your transmission

Stabbing an automatic transmission (or in your case engine to transmission):
basically when you get the engine down low enough and at the correct angle to the transmission (they are 2-3" apart) you will turn the torque converter until the studs line up exactly with the flexplate holes. Now you carefully bring the engine back to the transmission and make sure they continue to line up. With the converter studs now going through the flexplate holes you can bolt the engine to the transmission and pull it tight (bell housing bolts)
Now through the starter hole, you will install your first torque converter to flexplate nut.

This is when it should pull the converter forward 3/8" = you did it correctly!!

Now you will turn the engine by hand at the crankshaft pulley and install the next 3 converter nuts

 

[Littleant]

410fortune gave you great advice especially on the transmission. When you install the transmission never ever leave it hanging. Make sure it is fully on the dowels still supported with a Jack. If not you can damage the front pump. No need to ask how I know but involved a old Ford pinto

 

[tedmc1]

shane10 said:
3 - Once the engine was removed, I pulled off the fuel rails just to clear space up, some of the fuel was released and pooled into the crevice between the cylinder heads. No biggie, except it started to bubble/drain... Looked like cracked metal at first, but upon poking around it appeared to be some sort of filler? Definitely not aluminum, the best I can describe is a soft clay like material. Is this normal? Is my engine rotting? (Hard to believe, there is little rust around the whole truck).

All 4.0SOHC engines came from the factory with a thermal barrier above the lower intake manifold. Designed to keep the fuel rails from getting too hot.

 

[shane10]

All 4.0SOHC engines came from the factory with a thermal barrier above the lower intake manifold. Designed to keep the fuel rails from getting too hot.

Uh-oh, after poking around at it a bit it kind of turned into sand, ended up scraping it clean and vacuuming it out. Is this going to cause the rails to explode?

 

[shane10]

UPDATE: Engine is on the stand (kicking myself for buying the cheap harbor freight 1K# stand), the arms are so shallow I will probably have to remove it and reattach to the hoist to work on the rear cassette, no biggie.
Attempted to remove roller followers with valve spring compressor tool, the tool doesn't fit around the cam lobe.... I have the right tool with the right part number, either it was stamped incorrectly or machined incorrectly. Beyond irritated, parts are arriving tomorrow and was hoping to drop the engine in the following day.
Attempted to stretch it by torquing two wrench ends in opposite directions, no dice. Could try grinding it down but my only viable tool is a weak cordless Dremel. Doubtful any stores around me have it, and looks like oreilly's doesn't offer it as a loaner tool.
Any options compressing the springs without this tool?

Thanks for all the input so far, I'm sure it will make this job much easier going back together

EDIT: Weak little Dremel has some heart, was able to grind enough off to make it fit! Back in business.

 

[shane10]

Just finished cleaning head gasket surfaces and bolting them back up, about to start timing the engine.
On a last minute thought, would it be a good idea to get a new oil pump while everything is so easily accessible? Doesn't seem pump failure is common on these trucks, and I've been having no issues. But with 216K on the original pump I'm wondering if it would be a good idea just to avoid another headache down the road, thoughts?

 

[mountaineer2004]

Yes, you should.
FordTechMaculoco recommends upgrade to a melling high capacity oil pump in a situation such as yours.
At 216k it would be a wise decision.

 

[Littleant]

Boy do I agree 100% with mountaineer 2004 on the oil pump.

 

[shane10]

Yes, you should.
FordTechMaculoco recommends upgrade to a melling high capacity oil pump in a situation such as yours.
At 216k it would be a wise decision.

All of the videos he recommends high output pump are for 5.4L 3v triton engines, but yes at 216k I agree it would probably be a wise decision. I have the engine timed (I think) and was hoping to drop it back in today, I'll see what my options are though.
Thanks

EDIT: "Pump Is Designed To Be Used With A Melling Aftermarket Screen Assembly Only", are these bought separately? Pictures on rock auto show pump/gaskets only.

 

[mountaineer2004]

You're welcome. Not positive about the screens, but they probably are sold separately.

 

[shane10]

You're welcome. Not positive about the screens, but they probably are sold separately.

Separate screen adapter purchase required, a bit spendy but at least I'll have peace of mind about it. Went to install, noticed that the oil pump (auxiliary?) drive shaft is loose on the new one... Tried re-splining and putting it in both directions, still loose

EDIT: To explain that better, the shaft has play up and down. Re-installed the old one to try and figure things out, same thing
I assume that is how it's supposed to be, was just confused as everything seemed 100% tight and in place coming out

 

[mountaineer2004]

Not sure, but if they're both like that, it's the way it is.
Could anyone else confirm?

 

[ExploringOptions2004]

Not sure, but if they're both like that, it's the way it is.
Could anyone else confirm?

Maybe theyre are specs on a PDF that could compare a measurement. When I was repairing industrial machinery i never came across gears that didn't have some play between where they mesh together. If they did touch than something was wrong. The gears would bind up and create excess friction thus creating more heat.we would grease our gears but I'd assume it needs lubrication some how and since ya cant really grease it externally, gotta get lube from oil some how. But dont quote me.

 

[shane10]

Maybe theyre are specs on a PDF that could compare a measurement. When I was repairing industrial machinery i never came across gears that didn't have some play between where they mesh together. If they did touch than something was wrong. The gears would bind up and create excess friction thus creating more heat.we would grease our gears but I'd assume it needs lubrication some how and since ya cant really grease it externally, gotta get lube from oil some how. But dont quote me.

Thanks for the reply, couldn't really find much if any information regarding the specs of anything other than length, both OEM and the Melling aftermarket are the same 8.06 inches, which is what mine is (original). It's not the gear surfaces that have play, the entire shaft moves up and down at least a solid 1/4-3/8 inches, but not enough to de-spline from the gears.
Since the original pump has the same play (that I didn't notice on disassembly) I'm going to go ahead and hope that's how it's supposed to be, need to get this upper pan back on so I can drop the engine in. Just seems weird to me.
If anyone else has any knowledge on this any info is greatly appreciated as usual, thanks for the replies so far