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LED headlights

^ The companies making the LEDs specify the color temperature. It's the aftermarket marketing that steps in and slaps labels on more often than not, and doing this because of the false positive connotation with being daylight or sunlight, somehow not as bad when it's ignoring at least two factors, human eye reaction and adjustment time, and CRI.

It is irrelevant whether you call them daylight, or sunlight, or anything else. What is relevant is that what is acceptable to see by in broad daylight when everything is evenly illuminated, is not the same as what impact that excessive blue light has on the human eye that also needs to see things that are not evenly illuminated at night. The darker it is outside, the more glaring and blinding that blue light emission is. This makes a huge difference that you don't seem to want to accept.

It would be pointless to think that telling these generic LED retrofit companies would do anything as they are already knowingly flooding the US market with illegal products. Most won't even consider removing their false claim that they are DOT certified even though there is no such thing as a DOT certified headlight, nor DOT compliant if an LED retrofit.

It's not a matter of what they call their lights, rather a matter that the cold color temperature headlight products shouldn't exist at all, nor any drop in retrofit. You're just not accepting what I'm telling you, that a product merely existing because it's made by a company with no moral values or regard for the law, is not a validation for their product being acceptable to use. That is not a burden on someone else to stop, rather each individual consumer. Do we even need to go around telling people that robbing banks is illegal or is it even if we don't? At the same time, the consumer IS in an unfortunate position that the laws aren't being enforced. Sellers should be penalized and consumers using the products should be ticketed.

You are implying there is some burden on everyone else, for you not to do the wrong thing. We have met that burden by informing you. Short of physically removing your headlights from your vehicle, what more was society supposed to do? The thing I want done is start fining people for the illegal lights, for law enforcement to do their job which is... get ready for it... enforce law, not make discretionary calls about how blinding something is. The code does not make that stipulation that LED drop ins are acceptable if not blinding, rather it is the other way around, all-encompassing that they are illegal no matter what, but also even if it's not a retrofit change in the factory design, it's still also illegal if blinding for some other reason like aimed excessively up or to the left.
I am speaking on what is reality and will be reality going forward. I am also speaking from personal experience and what is presented in easily obtained research from a simple Google search. The fact that so many people use LEDs for headlights with no legal issues shows this will not go away ever. When this occurs it is where the government should step in and regulate the situation instead of ignoring it through lack of regulation or law enforcement. The fact is there are perfectly acceptable LED bulb replacements for older halogen bulbs. There are also bad replacements. I would rather point out to people who are going to use LED bulbs to consider the right way to determine what bulb to use. I think this is a better way than to just tell them not to do it and then they do it anyway and choose the wrong bulbs. The best way to deal with this is for the NHTSA to set standards so the bulbs can be certified safe by a clearing house for use. There is no reason that properly designed and manufactured LED replacement bulbs can't be used for older style OEM bulbs.
 



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I am speaking on what is reality and will be reality going forward. I am also speaking from personal experience and what is presented in easily obtained research from a simple Google search. The fact that so many people use LEDs for headlights with no legal issues shows this will not go away ever. When this occurs it is where the government should step in and regulate the situation instead of ignoring it either through regulation or through law enforcement. The fact is there are perfectly acceptable LED bulb replacements for older halogen bulbs. There are also bad replacements. I would rather point out to people who are going to use LED bulbs to consider the right way to determine what bulb to use. I think this is a better way than to just tell them not to do it and then they do it anyway and choose the wrong bulbs. The best way to deal with this is for the NHTSA to set standards so the bulbs can be certified safe by a clearing house for use. There is no reason that properly designed and manufactured LED replacement bulbs can't be used for older style OEM bulbs.
Perfectly said
 






Are there any LED kits or LED headlight assembly replacements for a 2005 Ford Explorer? The kits I see for the most part have a big heat sync/ballast sticking out the back and there is pretty much zero clearance behind the headlight assembly.
There are a few out there that offer LED kits, however, you could also try a new LED laser light HB3. Because you have a projector, some of the LED replacement bulbs out, there are unable to compensate with the reflector.
With the LED laser light, it will give you better on your distance, but you’ll be short changed if you don’t have fog lights to cover that gap between the distance and the road.
 






There is no reason that properly designed and manufactured LED replacement bulbs can't be used for older style OEM bulbs.
Except that they are illegal and cause blinding glare.

You haven't been following along, so one last time:

It is impossible to have the same beam pattern, more light, at a much colder color temperature, and not cause blinding glare. We could say that glare may not be completely blinding depending on a few variables, but it does still interfere with other drivers' vision.

We know you have a much colder color temp so if yours aren't causing a blinding glare, then they must either not have the same beam pattern, or don't produce more light, OR you re-aimed them down and to the right.

If they allow you to see better, they are throwing out more blue light and causing blinding glare. You can't have it both ways.

... beating dead horse for second time, I'm done posting about it.
 






One would literally get a better beam pattern with a HID retrofit over a LED retrofit as the light source is still cylindrical not to mention they're available in white 4300K/5000K vs LED's only being available in blue 6000K/6500K.

If you're absolutely adamant about getting rid of your halogens then get 9006 4300K 35W HID's.
 






I was under the impression that the DOT had recently allowed LED light aftermarket replacements in autos. Am I misunderstanding this?
 






Except that they are illegal and cause blinding glare.

You haven't been following along, so one last time:

It is impossible to have the same beam pattern, more light, at a much colder color temperature, and not cause blinding glare. We could say that glare may not be completely blinding depending on a few variables, but it does still interfere with other drivers' vision.

We know you have a much colder color temp so if yours aren't causing a blinding glare, then they must either not have the same beam pattern, or don't produce more light, OR you re-aimed them down and to the right.

If they allow you to see better, they are throwing out more blue light and causing blinding glare. You can't have it both ways.

... beating dead horse for second time, I'm done posting about it.
Your knowledge of LED headlights is limited which makes the usefulness and accuracy of your comments regarding them limited. All you are doing is making absolute statements when there are other truths that should be presented. I am giving useful information so that people that decide to install LED headlights will at least know what to consider when choosing a particular bulb. Everything you mention about LED headlights as a negative are also present in the LED headlights that are legal in every new vehicle that uses them. This includes color temperature, intensity, beam patterns etc. If replacement LED headlights for halogen bulbs meet the same criteria as those installed in new vehicles then there is no reasonable justification from a performance aspect to not use them as replacements for legacy bulbs. The fact is many LED replacement bulbs today are manufactured to provide the same beam pattern as OEM bulbs and they do not blind oncoming traffic. They have the same color temperature and intensity as LEDs found in new vehicles from the factory. The only reason they aren't legal is because the NHTSA has decided to sit on their arse and not update their regulations for decades regarding legacy bulbs. Many of the aftermarket LED companies that provide LED headlight bulbs have done their homework and are providing LED bulbs that do perform responsibly.
 






I was under the impression that the DOT had recently allowed LED light aftermarket replacements in autos. Am I misunderstanding this?
No they have not. There are some aftermarket LED bulb sellers who make fraudulent claims that their products are "DOT approved" or "DOT compliant" or "DOT certified" but they are none of these things. Integrated housings are another story, see below.

DOT does not approve or certify headlights. They issue specs that the manufacturer can (must, to make them legal to use on public roads) comply with. The only thing that can be DOT compliant is if the entire aftermarket assembly is included, built for and tested on the target vehicle. This latter option was always allowed (and also includes when you buy an aftermarket headlight housing for your vehicle that uses the same stock incan bulb), but there's still the issue of whether the seller actually did the DOT compliance testing or just claimed it's compliant... another reason why it's a good idea to buy a major brand housing rather than amazon or ebay generic. To clarify, it is legal to use professionally made, vehicle specific, LED integrated (they don't use replaceable bulbs, necessarily depend on not being able to replace bulbs to stay DOT compliant) housings that have been tested to meet DOT compliance.


The only recent activity relevant to LED headlights is that in Feb. 2022, NHTSA made an amendment to FMVSS 108, allowing for Adaptive headlights for OEM headlight implementations and listed some testing parameters. They've essentially conceded that the OEM headlights cause excessive glare and need a solution, unlike some people who think the bar to reach is to merely be no more glaring than the excessively glaring, OEM headlights. Literally, in their own words in their amendment, they state it's a response to, quote "the causes of, and possible solutions to, glare".



If any substantial changes happen, you'll find it on the NHTSA press release search page:

 






HIR2 / 9012 (Halogen Infrared Reflective) lamps, in short, have an infrared coating on the inside of the glass, due to which the heat reflected from the glass of the lamp further increases the heating of the filament, thereby the lamp shines brighter.the main disadvantage in this case is the increased temperature output of the lamps. Reflectors on our machines, given their age and at standard 55 watts, burn out very quickly and begin to fade, and increasing by 5 watts will simply speed up this process.
 






Are there any LED kits or LED headlight assembly replacements for a 2005 Ford Explorer? The kits I see for the most part have a big heat sync/ballast sticking out the back and there is pretty much zero clearance behind the headlight assembly.
use this link and save 10%
I have this brand on my 1992 explorer. very good and bright. Just look up your bulb number .
 






Your knowledge of LED headlights is limited which makes the usefulness and accuracy of your comments regarding them limited.

I would counter that I know more about LED headlights, more about LEDs, more about the law, more about the blue light and lumens issue, more about how the human eye works.

All you are doing is making absolute statements when there are other truths that should be presented.

Because it's absolutely true that the retrofit drop in bulbs are illegal and cause more glare. No one can dispute this.

I am giving useful information so that people that decide to install LED headlights will at least know what to consider when choosing a particular bulb.

Which is encouraging them to break the law and cause more glare on public roads. It's all an excuse to drive faster. Think about it, if you were only going 2MPH, you could get by with a pocket flashlight. The faster you go, the more light you need, so you feel it is important enough to drive faster that you don't mind more fatalities. Despite all the improvements in vehicle safety and switching more to LED headlights, vehicle fatalities are at an all time high and half of them happen at night when there are far fewer people on the road. We could blame alcohol or some other factor, but glaring LED headlights are the only thing that has changed much in recent years.

Everything you mention about LED headlights as a negative are also present in the LED headlights that are legal in every new vehicle that uses them.
No, the other difference (besides not being illegal) is that the manufacturer tests them to be DOT compliant. Merely eyeballing it after you threw money at some illegal product and declaring it "good" is not the same. That's more of an ego thing that you are satisfied and don't care if they meet specs, which they probably don't if they allow you to see much better using incan housings.

If replacement LED headlights for halogen bulbs meet the same criteria as those installed in new vehicles then there is no reasonable justification from a performance aspect to not use them as replacements for legacy bulbs.
Except they don't, meet the same criteria which is being legal to use and being tested for DOT compliance and performance. We both know you did not test your lights, if for no other reason than that the cost of equipment to do it, exceeds the value of your vehicle.


The fact is many LED replacement bulbs today are manufactured to provide the same beam pattern as OEM bulbs and they do not blind oncoming traffic.

The fact is, no LED replacement bulb can provide the same near-360' emission. They can tell you they do, and you are very eager to believe it, but there is no way to make one LED, which at best would have nearly a 180' beam, become a 360' emission. If you place multiple LEDs pointing different directions to try to get 360', then it still doesn't work because they are ALL, now not centered at the focal point of the reflector. It can "almost" work with projector beam if there is the right combination of collimating lense, but LED retrofit bulbs are not designed for this if it's a retrofit for a standard incan bulb type and housing.

They have the same color temperature and intensity as LEDs found in new vehicles from the factory.

Based on what? Their claim? How much do you really trust the claims of companies selling something illegal? Of course they're going to tell you it's extra special good. I know with certainty that you do not have the equipment to test whether they have the same intensity found in new vehicles from the factory. You are simply making up fictional arguments when you pretend they are magically the same. If it were that easy to make them the same, OEMs would just throw LED drop-ins into their existing incan housings, not spend $1M++ into developing integrated LED headlights. The obviousness of the truth should be sinking in right about now.

The only reason they aren't legal is because the NHTSA has decided to sit on their arse and not update their regulations for decades regarding legacy bulbs. Many of the aftermarket LED companies that provide LED headlight bulbs have done their homework and are providing LED bulbs that do perform responsibly.

There is no such thing as responsibly selling an illegal product. They simply throw marketing nonsense at you and you want to believe, when there is no evidence that they are magically equal to OEM factory LED headlights and every reason to believe they are not, besides the one factor of also using LEDs.

They aren't legal because consumers don't have the testing equipment to make statements like you did, that they must magically be as good as OEM, before we even get into the issue of the OEM having problems too.

Let's face facts. You do not have any data that concludes that your lights perform in any way like an OEM, LED light does. You hoped we would not notice this completely fictional claim. OEM LED lights don't have the same beam pattern as this generation of Explorer, so even if you had an LED bulb that exactly replicated the beam pattern that the stock incan bulb has, you don't have the same beam pattern as an OEM LED headlight, including intensity, so it is doubly impossible.

What you have instead, is an illegal product, where the seller told you everything is good, and you want to believe it despite it being impossible for it to provide enough illumination benefit to bother, without producing excessive glare. I've mentioned about a half dozen reasons by now and all you can do is pretend they are just like OEM headlights which they obviously are not.
 






I would respond to you but you have fragmented your reply so much that doing so is just too tedious.
 






^ If you can just condense it all into what testing you have done that makes you sure they are just like OEM LED headlights beam pattern and intensity, yet magically also just like the factory incan beam pattern on this gen Explorer, which are three different beam patterns, that would be interesting.

I've built things with LEDs for years, even my current room lighting was self built before household LED bulbs became a thing, so it's not that I'm opposed to change or LEDs in general, but I am very much opposed to a lot of blue light spectrum shining in my eyes or anyone else's, especially while driving.
 






^ If you can just condense it all into what testing you have done that makes you sure they are just like OEM LED headlights beam pattern and intensity, yet magically also just like the factory incan beam pattern on this gen Explorer, which are three different beam patterns, that would be interesting.

I've built things with LEDs for years, even my current room lighting was self built before household LED bulbs became a thing, so it's not that I'm opposed to change or LEDs in general, but I am very much opposed to a lot of blue light spectrum shining in my eyes or anyone else's, especially while driving.
You may have extensive experience with LED lighting but have you ever installed an aftermarket LED headlight and compared the beam patterns with the OEM bulb? Have you actually used 6500k, 6000k LED headlight bulbs? If you have then you would know that well designed LED headlights mimic the OEM beam pattern to a level that any difference is imperceptable to the naked eye. Have you ever driven around with them and have never been flashed when using the low beams? I directly compared the OEM bulb and LED bulb beam pattern. They were identical to the point that any differences were mute. Also, the headlight housing is irrelevant since they are designed to the bulb that is spec'ed for them. The housing for the Mountaineer is different than the Explorer but the beam patterns are similar for each which is spec'ed by DOT as a general requirement for all headlight bulbs.

The first pair of LEDs I bought were not well designed. I did get flashed with these bulbs often for the two nights I used them. I sent them back to Amazon within the first two days and reinstalled the OEM bulbs. Then I did a lot of research and found that I needed to look for certain design elements in a LED headlight bulb. Of critical importance is location of the LEDs to be in the exact location of the OEM filaments. I bought two pairs that looked like they would meet this criteria. Upon close inspection by comparing the OEM and LED bulbs, one pair was close but the other pair had the LEDs in the exact location as the filaments. These bulbs were 6500k LEDs and they were too blue for my taste so I bought the same model with 6000k LEDs and they are daylight color and have no perceptible hint of blue. To my eye they are the same, or nearly the same, color as newer LED lights from the factory. In fact, I think many newer LED headlights are much brighter than mine. Also, I made sure to buy LED headlights that were no brighter than 3000 lumens each which, I believe, is the standard for new vehicles with LED headlights. IMO, with the beam pattern not drifting from the OEM pattern and the lumens not exceeding 3000 per bulb, is why I never get flashed when using the low beams and have never been pulled over. During my recent trip to the Midwest I drove over 1,600 miles and was not flashed one time for having too bright headlights.

These days I see a lot of older cars with LED headlights installed. Nearly all of them aren't irritating to me. The ones that are irritating are usually small economy cars that are tarted up by younger drivers. I suspect that these people get pulled over quickly by police because these days I hardly ever see one on the road in my area. I am sure it is much easier for the police to go after the flagrant offenders than to pull over someone like me that is not going too far with the brightness, color temperature and am holding closely to the OEM beam pattern.
 






Are there any LED kits or LED headlight assembly replacements for a 2005 Ford Explorer? The kits I see for the most part have a big heat sync/ballast sticking out the back and there is pretty much zero clearance behind the headlight assembly.
All you need are bulbs. Nothing else.
I did this back in 2016 because out away from the city you cant see sh!@ and all the new cars have led and can see down the road - its a matter of safety!!!

The issue you will find if you are an engineer with lighting experience is that the China suppliers don't state honest lumen output. When you ask, you get bs answers inconsistent with what they put in their listings.

Avoid the a-zon worse.

Avoid the USA guys that help you buy an inferior set for 10x price.

This took time. I asked over 100 times and found some they stated had incredible output - and they did.
I want to get another identical set for another vehicle and it will be a long search, time permitting.

I looked and after the COVI, supplier gone off the fleebay.

These met or exceeded to top new cars.
Look for 4 or 6 sided....very key secret they wont tell you because the two sided ones dont come close to replicating 360 degree light output.

I also installed cheap black out version headlight housings, the first set yellowed after 5 years, now about a year on the second set.
 






You may have extensive experience with LED lighting but have you ever installed an aftermarket LED headlight and compared the beam patterns with the OEM bulb? Have you actually used 6500k, 6000k LED headlight bulbs? If you have then you would know that well designed LED headlights mimic the OEM beam pattern to a level that any difference is imperceptable to the naked eye. Have you ever driven around with them and have never been flashed when using the low beams? I directly compared the OEM bulb and LED bulb beam pattern. They were identical to the point that any differences were mute. Also, the headlight housing is irrelevant since they are designed to the bulb that is spec'ed for them. The housing for the Mountaineer is different than the Explorer but the beam patterns are similar for each which is spec'ed by DOT as a general requirement for all headlight bulbs.

The first pair of LEDs I bought were not well designed. I did get flashed with these bulbs often for the two nights I used them. I sent them back to Amazon within the first two days and reinstalled the OEM bulbs. Then I did a lot of research and found that I needed to look for certain design elements in a LED headlight bulb. Of critical importance is location of the LEDs to be in the exact location of the OEM filaments. I bought two pairs that looked like they would meet this criteria. Upon close inspection by comparing the OEM and LED bulbs, one pair was close but the other pair had the LEDs in the exact location as the filaments. These bulbs were 6500k LEDs and they were too blue for my taste so I bought the same model with 6000k LEDs and they are daylight color and have no perceptible hint of blue. To my eye they are the same, or nearly the same, color as newer LED lights from the factory. In fact, I think many newer LED headlights are much brighter than mine. Also, I made sure to buy LED headlights that were no brighter than 3000 lumens each which, I believe, is the standard for new vehicles with LED headlights. IMO, with the beam pattern not drifting from the OEM pattern and the lumens not exceeding 3000 per bulb, is why I never get flashed when using the low beams and have never been pulled over. During my recent trip to the Midwest I drove over 1,600 miles and was not flashed one time for having too bright headlights.

These days I see a lot of older cars with LED headlights installed. Nearly all of them aren't irritating to me. The ones that are irritating are usually small economy cars that are tarted up by younger drivers. I suspect that these people get pulled over quickly by police because these days I hardly ever see one on the road in my area. I am sure it is much easier for the police to go after the flagrant offenders than to pull over someone like me that is not going too far with the brightness, color temperature and am holding closely to the OEM beam pattern.

Guys - from one with Ford lighting patents all this is a waste of time.
You are over engineering a brick that you think has all these technical specs none of which is remotely relevant to LUMEN OUTPUT, light out the front down the road.

rear my previous post on what to look for...and for those with time, search back in the Gen3 mod posts where I posted pics of my 2005 with LEDs
 












Guys - from one with Ford lighting patents all this is a waste of time.
You are over engineering a brick that you think has all these technical specs none of which is remotely relevant to LUMEN OUTPUT, light out the front down the road.

rear my previous post on what to look for...and for those with time, search back in the Gen3 mod posts where I posted pics of my 2005 with LEDs
Researching to find the right bulb isn't a waste of time. LED bulbs not designed to work in the housing like the OEM bulb is just spewing light everywhere and are not focusing the light down the road where it is needed. Also, not doing this research for the proper LED design is why LED headlights get such a bad reputation. Getting high lumen output LEDs that don't produce the OEM beam pattern is irresponsible and they likely don't perform well. The multi sided LED bulbs are the worst for projecting light down the road because they don't utilize the geometry of the lens housing properly to project light effectively and safely.
 






Researching to find the right bulb isn't a waste of time. LED bulbs not designed to work in the housing like the OEM bulb is just spewing light everywhere and are not focusing the light down the road where it is needed. Also, not doing this research for the proper LED design is why LED headlights get such a bad reputation. Getting high lumen output LEDs that don't produce the OEM beam pattern is irresponsible and they likely don't perform well. The multi sided LED bulbs are the worst for projecting light down the road because they don't utilize the geometry of the lens housing properly to project light effectively.
Sorry - incorrect & wrong.
I've designed headlights so I know what to do, without getting into optics design on this forum, and what to look for and it worked incredibly well.

BTW, the reason multi sided came to play was to put light out on more that one plane, and the specs for a given bulb state where the light is to be coming from to hit the parabola correctly ...
If you are buying $20 China cheap, you get what you pay for...
 



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Sorry - incorrect & wrong.
I've designed headlights so I know what to do, without getting into optics design on this forum, and what to look for and it worked incredibly well.

BTW, the reason multi sided came to play was to put light out on more that one plane, and the specs for a given bulb state where the light is to be coming from to hit the parabola correctly ...
If you are buying $20 China cheap, you get what you pay for...
Are these bulbs blinding oncoming traffic by not projecting an OEM beam pattern and/or having to high of a lumen output?
 






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