Major 4th Gen (2008) Creaking - Ball Joint Questions

[PotatoExplorer]

Hey guys,

I've been having some major creaking coming from the front end. I suspect it's from the driver side lower ball joint. It use to be really noticeable when I would turn the steering wheel ever so slightly left/right at a dead stop, but that seems to have dissipated. Now it mainly creaks when I get in/out of the vehicle or when I come to a stop or begin to accelerate (vehicle sinking towards the front when applying brakes and vehicle sinking on the back end when giving gas).

I've been trying to find a detailed video or walk through of how to do this. This weekend I just replaced my 2003 Ford Ranger upper control arm/ball joint and lower ball joint. I had a hell of a time due to rust (and running to Autozone and Lowes for many different sockets) and mainly the new upper ball joint stud resisting going back into the top socket of the spindle/steering knuckle. After 4 some hours of hammering, prying, torching, raising/lowering the steering knuckle and spindle, it turned out it was a combination of a tiny burr and built up road crud on the inside of the spindle socket opening. A round hand file, some elbow grease, some penetrating fluid and a little dab of regular lithium grease solved the problem. But boy did that make me never want to touch another ball joint again.

BUT - I have to replace this one on the Explorer to get rid of this annoying creaking. So I just want to know how similar of a processes is this compared to the 3rd gens?? I saw a 1A Auto video that showed them ripping apart the entire steering assembly - tie rods, sway bars, etc... but for the Ranger I just removed the axle nut, caliper bracket (bracket/pads/rotor) removed and placed onto a support, pulled the cv shaft out and tied it up, removed upper ball joint pinch bolt, lower castle nut and moved the whole knuckle and supported it out of the way.

And I have a feeling that once I'm in there that I should just replace all of the other joints as well? AHHH?!!?! This makes me want to rip my hair out.

Thanks guys!

 

[Tech By Trade]

Super easy with a balljoint press. Biggest problem is when the upper is frozen and you have to do it as well. If it all comes apart its a couple hour job. you have to knuckle out of the way, then press out the ball joint.

 

[Explorer_PL]

For the upper balljoints, I just get complete upper arms, the price difference is minimal between the whole assembly and the ball joints itself. But you loose the alignment so the price may savings are a wash. But with the UCA, very often the bushings go bad as well so then the whole thing is better.

I got a cheap balljoint press from ebay and it works just fine for the lower ones.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Thanks guys - Yeah I picked up a cheap-o ball joint press off of Amazon for like $50. Actually it's pretty nice compared to others in that range and geared towards 4x4 vehicles.

I think my biggest concern is removing the upper ball joint stud from the spindle/knuckle again. It's giving me nightmares!! OK, not really , but thinking about it not fitting again scares me.

And my other confusion is how similar is it to the previous generation. Because that 1A Auto video is a bit scary for the amount of work involved. The guy snapped the sway bar end link... wtf?!

 

[Explorer_PL]

The sway bar links just snap, plan of having 2 new ones on hand, they are about $ 10 each. I did it few times on my 06 and never had an issue putting the upper ball joint stud back to the knuckle. The problem I had was that I could not tighten the nut all the way up and the whole (old) ball joint was spinning, and the little 8mm hex on the stud was too little to keep it in place. I think I cross threaded it or it was too rusty. I removed to knuckle to do some other repairs and had to loosen the upper ball joint and then put it back together.
Otherwise, straight forward, no pinch bolt involved there.

 

[Tech By Trade]

My upper froze when I did it. I ended up having to grind of the nut. Plan was to replace the whole arm, but of course none of our parts places had any in stock and I was looking at a week for a replacement. Ended up pressing out the upper which was a major PITA. The lip on the edge of the arm is in just the perfect spot that the cup slips back over the top of the ball joint. Had to move it a couple turns and then take it apart when it would slip to make sure it wasn't pressing on the ball joint. A royal pain. Never do I want that job again. As for the sway bar links. I usually break one, or destroy a bushing every 6 to 8 months. I have it down now so I can change them out in 15 minutes without even taking off the tire.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

This is a perfect example of everything I keep hearing about our (Ford?) suspension work - It's either straight forward and super easy, or it some how turns into a major pain in the ass. Hmmm... I'm going to sit on this until about May, since that's when my inspection is up. Maybe by then I'll get my courage back to where I need it to be to tackle this...

 

[swshawaii]

Sounds like ball joints, but have you ruled out worn or dry front sway bar FRAME bushings? Very common source of squeaks on earlier models, just don't read about them much on Gen 4's and newer. Just for kicks, get a water hose, soak thoroughly, and jounce the front or drive to test. Remote chance it may save you from a seemingly PITA ball joint job. GL

http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...441671,suspension,stabilizer+bar+bushing,7624

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Hey guys, I got a status update on the my creaking and suspension exploration -

So spring/summer came and went (well there's a few more weeks of summer left) and the creaking has stayed pretty much the same since starting this thread. With the recent cooler weather and driving around with the windows down, it's been very annoying and kind of embarrassing. The one day I had the wife pull the steering wheel back and forth while we were sitting in a parking lot. I located the creaking to the passenger tie rod. I couldn't determine if it was from the inner or outer but by placing my hand on the entire tie rod assembly as she moved the steering wheel back and forth I could feel the vibrations as it was creaking. Before jumping the gun and buying a new inner/outer tie rod I wanted to further research this and also see if there was anything else to replace.

Today I finally got around to doing some tests. I remember someone telling me that when you jack up the front - grab and push/pull the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock to reveal any bad upper/lower ball joints, grab and push/pull the tire at 9 and 3 o'clock to reveal any bad tie rods, and pry up from the bottom of the tire with a pry bar to reveal any bad upper control arms. I did this to both driver and passenger tires and the only thing that showed some play was the passenger upper control arm, but no tie rod play. What gives?? Also, the last time I took it in for an inspection they said that the driver side ball joint might have to be replaced soon, but I noticed zero play in the tire.

I did notice that the sway bar bushings were split and cracked, so those for sure need replaced. I'm pretty sure this was the creaking any time I came to a sudden stop or getting in and out of the car.

The questions -
I'm going to replace the passenger side inner and outer tie rods to (I HOPE) eliminate to majority of the creaking even though it failed the test. How critical is it to replace the drivers side as well? How do you change the upper passenger control arm on a 2008 Explorer? I've only changed the driver side upper on my 2003 Ranger. And is changing the front sway bar as simple as removing the 4 bolts, cleaning the areas, install new bushings and replace the 4 bolts??

 

[swshawaii]

Today I finally got around to doing some tests. I remember someone telling me that when you jack up the front - grab and push/pull the tire at 12 and 6 o'clock to reveal any bad upper/lower ball joints, grab and push/pull the tire at 9 and 3 o'clock to reveal any bad tie rods, and pry up from the bottom of the tire with a pry bar to reveal any bad upper control arms. I did this to both driver and passenger tires and the only thing that showed some play was the passenger upper control arm, but no tie rod play.

That's correct, but to check lower and upper BALL JOINTS, you must lift and support by the lower control arms. This unloads the suspension, and is the only way to diagnose ball joints with SLA suspension. Lifting by the front cross member or frame does NOT unload the suspension. Lifting under under the lower control arms close to the lower ball joint is the correct way.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Wow, so that was essentially a waste of time yesterday? Well this is good info for the future. Thank you Swshawaii for the info.

I went ahead and placed an order on RockAuto.com for an inner/outer tie rod for the passenger side, sway bar bushings and sway bar bushing end links. I guess while I'm in there fixing that stuff in the next couple of weeks, I'll go ahead and retest.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Well I was able to change out the sway bar bushings and end links this afternoon. Sadly it didn't make my creaking any less pronounced. Definitely think it's still the passenger inner/outer tie rod. I'm hoping to get to it on Sunday morning. I also ran out of time and couldn't test the ball joints... bummer. After test driving it a bit I noticed some clunking going over some larger bumps like speed bump size. I'll have to make sure I got everything tightened properly on Sunday. The sway bar bushings were definitely starting to crack but the end links still seemed alright. The sway bar bushings were also heavily coated in grease, like excessively.

Another note, maybe some of the creaking is actually coming from the front brakes... It seems to creak anytime I let off the brake pedal.

 

[tripplec]

I would have put money on the sway bar (bushings and or clamps for them are loose). A-arm next depending on condition and age but that's a longer shot IMO. Ball joint should if really bad be more of a metal screech (steel on steel sliding). But checking the wear of them would indicate whether bad or not.

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Well I'm an F'in idiot. I found out what the clunking was from. It was basically coming from an unsupported sway bar. I checked real quick this morning and saw that the bushings on the end links were pushed way down on the middle rods that separates the bottom bushings from the top bushings. The sway bar had tilted itself way down onto the end links. Get this, I never backed the middle bushings with the metal washers to prevent that middle tube from sinking into the rubber bushings. I looked at the bottom bushing on the end link bolt and noticed that all the washers were piled up underneath the bushing. Apparently during my rushing around to finish the job, I never fully disassembled how the end link arrived in the box, figuring that the bolt and bottom bushing were already set up, so why pull it off? Again, I'm an f'in idiot. Thank god the bushings were still OK and not split in half or something.

So I had an hour to change this before I had to be somewhere so I unbolted the end links and had to pound the middle bushings off the middle tube (they were down on there good). I then had to loosen the sway bar brackets because the sway bar was tilted way too far down that I couldn't get the correct setup for the end links to fit in between the sway bar end and the bottom control arm. Once loosened a bit I was able to tilt the sway bar back to its upright position, put the end links on, torqued down the sway bar bracket bolts, then tightened up the end links to their correct specifications. I did this all with the tires still on... thinking about it, I probably could have done the original job without even jacking up the vehicle, although it would have been way more difficult. I also somehow lost a washer in the processes. I ended up replacing it with one of the old washers on the old end links. The old washer was a smidge bigger than the original, but I was able to get it to seat properly in the back of the bushing.

Oh what a weekend this has been.

 

[tripplec]

LOL well done. I had noise like you describe on a different oem vehicle and I was the sway bar bushing as well as the clamps got weak.
good to hear you've won though .

 

[PotatoExplorer]

Changed the inner/outer passenger tie rod this morning. Totally didn't fix my creaking problem. The old outer tie rod was still good but the inner was shot. Sadly I think I screwed up the threads on the old outer... oh well. Had the wife pull the steering wheel back and forth again. I sat under there for about 10 minutes with her doing that and I have no idea. Sometimes it sounds like the passenger lower ball joint, then sometimes it sounds like the drives side. Now my alignment is out of whack so I'm contemplating just going all out and replacing the lowers, upper control arms/ball joints, and the driver side inner/outer tie rod. I'm pretty much half way there...

Question - Could the creaking actually be coming from the rack and pinion system? Is that even possible?

 

[swshawaii]

Changed the inner/outer passenger tie rod this morning. Totally didn't fix my creaking problem.

Had the wife pull the steering wheel back and forth again. I sat under there for about 10 minutes with her doing that and I have no idea. Sometimes it sounds like the passenger lower ball joint, then sometimes it sounds like the drives side.

Question - Could the creaking actually be coming from the rack and pinion system? Is that even possible?

Did you unload the suspension lifting from under the LCA's? Use a piece of hose touching the part, or even a wood stick held on your ear to help isolate the creaking noise. Replacing the other parts would probably be a good idea while you're in there.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

A mechanic's stethoscope will tell you where the noise is coming from real quick. Damn near blows out the eardrum from the amplification.