Major Brake Problem on an 01 EB

[Black Mammoth]

First off, thanks for taking a look. Here is my problem. I have an 01 EB (has ABS) with 69k miles on it. I decided to do a brake overhaul. I noitced that I a frozen caliper and was suspecious about another one. So here is what I've done.

1. Replaced all 4 calipers, pads, and rotors.
2. Replaced a frozen parking brake cable (right rear).
3. Replaced all the parking brake pads.

I bled the rear two calipers. On my passenger front, I got distracted and I let the resevior run dry. So I filled it up and rebled the entire system. I thought I got all of the air out. Sure enough the brakes were spongy. I read on here (and in my Haynes manual) that I should have the dealer do it because of tool they use. It appears to be some electrical component that tells it to bleed the system.

So I took it up to the dealer and they bled the brakes. They said they tested them and everything was fine. My wife picks up the car and they are still spongy! She takes it back and the mechanic tested the car (drove). He said it was the master brake cylinder.

I didn't think it would be possible for it to be the master cylinder. But the guy explained how he bled the system and the symptoms. Everything checked out. Since I'm out of town, I bit the bullet and had him replaced the master cylinder.

They called me and said it was ready for pickup and it was working. They said that they bled the brakes again after they were done. My wife picks it up and the brakes are spongy! I'm told that it's not as bad as it was before, but they are still very spongy.

So what in the heck can it be? The only thing I can think of is that it could the booster/power assist portion of the brakes or somehow their is a small crack in the lines somewhere. Although, they appear to be in very good condition. I wrenched down the brake lines pretty hard and both washers were used (new washer, but I used both of them ). So I don't think they are leaking at the calipers. Maybe the diaphram got blown out? Maybe when air got in to the MC it somehow blew the diaphram out?

I've read something about the RABS on here. But I thought if they bled the system properly that it wouldn't be an issue. I'm stumped here. Tomorrow I need to call them and figure something out. Any suggestions? Also, what are my chances that I can get some of my money back for the master cylinder not fixing the problem?

Thanks! Sorry for the long post.

 

[Black Mammoth]

After further research, I guess that it can't be RABS because I don't think I have that on 01. Also, if it's the booster I would expect the pedal to be hard. However, I'm not ruling anything out in the power assist area.

Is there anything in the ABS system that can be bled? I'm still thinking air. They said they power bled the system, but just about everything has been replaced.

 

[Black Mammoth]

The dealer "found" the problem. They are claiming it's the pads. I find that VERY hard to believe. The charged me $280 for pads (front and back). And they didn't charge me labor because they kept on making mistakes. I feel like I was screwed on the $280.

Anyway, the problem is fixed. I bought loaded calipers and I'm not sure what kind of pads were on there. I've replaced the pads with Bendix before and I never had a problem. I will be taking a trip to the auto parts store to complain.

I posted the update in case anyone else runs in to the same thing. Althought, it still doesn't make sense to me because it's a hydraulic system. I think they pulled a fast one on me. I still believe that there was air in the lines. :fire:

 

[CDW6212R]

You, I, we don't know, but I'd bet that there was some air still in the ABS pump. Normal bleeding bypasses the ABS pump, and a special device is needed to force the ABS pump to purge. They probably didn't do it well enough the first time. Sorry to hear about the problems, and expense.
DonW

 

[DeRocha]

It had to be air in the sytem. Pads don't make brakes spongy... That is why it is critical to never left the brake fluid get low.. When I am doing a brake job I will fill the fluid beyond max since I know I will be running a quart of fluid through it. I recheck the level often while bleeding. The haynes manual indicates it is a pita to bleed the system once air is introduced.