More problems after 0012m upper/lower manafold gasket, Tentioner kit fix

[2000StreetRod]

Apparently normal

When I took the tensioner out I noted that when pushing the plunger down there is some resistance.

It sounds like the metal if chaffing along the internal surface. Maybe you can see and here it

I made another Youtube video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzlV6Va3M1w

Cliff

I noted that when you posted it the first time but forgot to comment. That apparently is normal. My old ones (front and rear) both did it and I assumed that it was due to 150,000 miles of wear. But when I received my new ones (both front and rear) they also did it. I guess it's something inherent in the design of the tensioner.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Chain jump probability

A few posts back I mentioned that when I was turning the crank I would here a click just after some resistance when turning.

Is this what I was hearing?

If so, then that's reassuring, because I thought it may of been a bent valve popping back to seat.

Cliff

I believe so. It is my opinion that this is when the chain has the highest probability of jumping. At this time the slack side becomes the traction side and the traction side becomes the slack side with no tensioner. At engine start up, or any time the oil pressure drops low, the chain tensioner only applies the weak spring pressure. The OHV V6 primary tensioner has a ratchet/hydraulic tensioner so even with no oil pressure very little chain deflection/slack is possible. It is a superior design to the SOHC chain tensioning method. I believe the SOHC and DOHC 4.6L V8 use the ratchet/hydraulic tensioners. There is one on each bank as shown below on a 97 DOHC engine.

Please note on the DOHC engine that the traction side guides are straight. There is less stress on the guides and as the guides wear the crankshaft to camshaft timing does not change. This is also the way the OHV V6 engine is as shown below.

 

[cjmedina]

What is the possibility I had bent valves with 50 degrees off?

Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Compression check after retime

What is the possibility I had bent valves with 50 degrees off?

Cliff

I really can't say. I've never seen the camshaft timing diagram. I estimate that the valves are fully extended for about 45 degrees of camshaft rotation. I don't know in rotation degrees how close the piston comes to the extended valve. The chances are pretty good that no damage was done. Turning the crankshaft thru two complete revolutions while watching the valve stems will increase your confidence. After that, I suggest disabling the fuel pump and ignition and cranking the engine with the starter to perform a compression test on all cylinders before reassembling the engine. Make sure that nothing will get sucked into the open intake ports. A good compression test result will further indicate no valve damage and correct camshaft timing.

 

[cjmedina]

The right/rear camshaft sprocket retaining bolt loosens when turned clockwise. You will have to keep the camshaft from rotating while breaking the camshaft retaining bolt free. It was originally torqued to 62 ft-lbs. You will need two 19 mm sockets. One to keep the crankshaft damper retaining bolt from rotating and one to loosen the right/rear camshaft sprocket retaining bolt. The crankshaft damper retaining bolt was originally torqued to 44 ft-lbs plus 90 degrees which is equivalent to more than 100 ft-lbs so the camshaft sprocket retaining bolt will loosen before the crankshaft damper retaining bolt.

Loosen the right/rear camshaft retaining bolt by turning clockwise while keeping the crankshaft from rotating. Once loose, the camshaft will rotate to the least spring pressure position of about 50 degrees before or after the correct position.

What is the reason for not keying the cam to the sprocket?

If it jumps 50 degrees when loosened that could be what happened.

That bolt is 19mm?

I hope i have enough room to get in there with a torque wrench to loosen as well as tighten. This way I can see if was off torque spec.

DO I NEED TO ORDER A NEW BOLT?​

Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Not torque-to-yield

What is the reason for not keying the cam to the sprocket?

Don't know. It's almost as if the design wasn't complete so Ford used a configuration with the maximum flexibity for timing. They could have used a key on the jackshaft rear sprocket and still not lost any flexibility. The way it is now, if that retaining bolt works loose then the engine must be pulled. That's just plain dumb in my opinion.

If it jumps 50 degrees when loosened that could be what happened.

That bolt is 19mm?

Yes, same as the crankshaft damper retaining bolt.

I hope i have enough room to get in there with a torque wrench to loosen as well as tighten. This way I can see if was off torque spec.

DO I NEED TO ORDER A NEW BOLT? . . . Cliff

No, unlike the crankshaft damper retaining bolt, the camshaft sprocket retaining bolt is not a torque-to-yield bolt and can be reused. Since the right camshaft sprocket retaining bolt loosens in the clockwise direction your torque wrench can be set to 62 ft-lbs and should click before or as the bolt comes loose.

 

[cjmedina]

Thanks Dale,

I have 2 beam style torque wrench's, both in ft and inch.

Should I borrow a click one for ft/lb's?


Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Difficult to read

I just realized that it will be very difficult for you to read the deflection on the torque wrench with the hood in the way. If you remove the hood so you can see the deflection your arms will not reach the breaker bar on the crankshaft damper bolt. This is why the special timing tool set includes an adapter to torque from the opposite side instead of the firewall side. You may need to borrow a settable torque wrench that works with counter-clockwise tightening. Or, you can place a piece of tape at 62 ft-lbs on the edge of the scale on your deflection torque wrench so you can see it when looking toward the end of the handle. Then you can place yourself leaning over the engine from the driver side and pull the torque wrench toward your body while pushing the breaker bar on the crankshaft damper bolt away from your body but not moving. Or, invite a friend over for a beer, and have him hold the breaker bar from moving.

 

[cjmedina]

Well that's certainly another juggling act! Am I the fist to do this while the engine is in the vehicle?

There isn't must room/distance to get a torque wrench in there, forward or reverse, but I will have to do it.

I will get someone to hold the crank with a breaker bar.

I have the engine at TDC right now and it's confirmed.

I measure exactly 50 degrees off on the right Cam.


I will do this job a little at a time during the week. I have all of the posts printed out for reference.


Cliff

 

[cjmedina]

I found another problem.....Clearance!

Even with just a breaker bar and the socket I have zero clearance left over.

The beam style torque wrench wouldn't fit with a socket.

I will have to see what the size is for a click type but either way I will have to cut down the socket.

Anybody know what the thickness is of the head of that bolt is so I know how much to cut the socket down to a little more then that?



OK....I was able to cut it down.....I used a 12 point

Cliff

 

[BK_89iX]

Would a crows-foot attachment allow more clearance for your torque wrench?

BK

 

[2000StreetRod]

Increase plastic strip torque

I just finished timing my left camshaft. The first time I did it the plastic strips didn't hold and the camshaft rotated three degrees from correct. I loosened everything and this time I torqued the camshaft bearing caps with the plastic strips to 35 in-lbs and they held. I suggest that you use 35 in-lbs instead of 25 in-lbs.

 

[2000StreetRod]

crow's foot is an excellent idea!

Would a crows-foot attachment allow more clearance for your torque wrench?

BK

That's an excellent idea! It would allow the torque to be applied from the opposite side so a person could read the deflection scale. The only complication would be to calculate the additional lever arm and reduce the torque value accordingly.

 

[BK_89iX]

That's an excellent idea! It would allow the torque to be applied from the opposite side so a person could read the deflection scale. The only complication would be to calculate the additional lever arm and reduce the torque value accordingly.

If space allows, turn the crows-foot 90 degrees to maintain the same wrench lever arm distance!

Crows-foot attachments and wobble-extensions are two of my all-time favorite "specialty" tools.

BK

 

[cjmedina]

That's an excellent idea! It would allow the torque to be applied from the opposite side so a person could read the deflection scale. The only complication would be to calculate the additional lever arm and reduce the torque value accordingly.

I've been searching all over for 1/2' drive ones. I found this. Not sure they are 1/2"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Matc...Z300415297351QQptZMotorsQ5fAutomotiveQ5fTools


There is a formula for the multiplier.

http://www.belknaptools.com/extcalc.asp

I never used one. Now taking a closer look I should of a long time ago. The only thing I'm cautious about is of it slipping and rounding the head. The flare nut crows foot is better.


Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Box instead of open

I was hoping that Harbor Freight had something like below but in a 6 point box instead of open wrench. But apparently they don't.

I refuse to use 12 point sockets and definitely would not torque something at 62 ft-lbs with an open style wrench. Also, the crows foot set is only 3/8 inch drive.

 

[cjmedina]

Basically these crows feet wrenches are open end wrenches, I would never use an open end wrench to torque a bolt to 62 lbs but I would take my chance with a 12 point.....

The 12 point gives me a few more degrees of movement.

I will also have to get a 6 point.


Cliff

 

[MSM0075]

Loosen the trans mount bolts and put a jack in a safe spot on the transmission and you might get some clearnence behind the head. Don't get too crazy though. Its worth a shot?

 

[cjmedina]

I found and cut a medicine bottle which was 1' in diameter......

Did you cut in half to get 4 of them?


Cliff

 

[2000StreetRod]

Make 4

I found and cut a medicine bottle which was 1' in diameter......

Did you cut in half to get 4 of them?

Cliff

I used tin snips to make half cylinders. You may have to trim them a little if they are longer than half the diameter of the exposed camshaft journal.