MTX or PIONEERS?

[whitey]

Ok guys I'm in the process of replacing and upgrading my audio with alittle more treble and bass. There's one slight problem... Low income. I already have an Alpine CDE-7870 HU. I'm probably replace door speakers with Pioneer TS-A8786 6x8's. I plan on putting a single sub in the rear and the amp under the rear passenger seat or making an amp rack in the rear.

My question is should I get the 12" Pioneer TS-W3041C 400rms/800max for $99.95. Or 12" MTX Thunder 6000 T6124A 250rms/500max for $89.95. Or 10" MTX Thunder 8000 T8104A 400rms/1000max for $149.95. Plus an amp that will push the subs to it's fulliest... Another snag I only have about $350 to spend after i get my 6x8s and some tweeters, also I'm buying everything from Millionbuy.com.

If anyone canhelp I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[leenjen]

definitely go for the MTX 8000. i think you will be happier and more impressed with the sound and perfromance from that 10" then you will from the other 12" subs you mentioned. the 8000 is the best sub that MTX makes. 95% of my mTX installs are with the 8000.
if you really dont want to spend the money on the 8000 then get the 6000. it will sound better (more accurate) than the pioneer.

 

[davesexplorer]

Yeah definately get the MTX, but dont get the 8000 unless your going to invest some $$$ in a good amp, needs 500 watts or so and sensitivity is not the greatest, get the 6000 and a decent 200/300watt or so amp to it and youll love it!!!!

 

[2K1Xplorer]

I have a Pioneer Premier 12" it kicks. Better than my friend's MTX 6000.

 

[97BlackX5.0]

definately go with the pioneer 6x8's in the doors... i have them all the way around ... paid 25 a pair from wallmart too.(they were on clearance) with a pioneer 200 watt amp driving a 10 inch bandpass with a sony xplod in it... .sounds pretty cool... and with the stock head unit too.... the factory amp powers the pioneers very well.... i was suprised... hookin the amp into the stock stereo was a pain in the royal ass but it worked in the end.... need a little bit bigger amp yet... but that will come later as i am on a tight budget too. Make sure you get a wiring diagrahm before you tear the door apart.... i ruined a pioneer by guessing... got 3 of the 4 right....

 

[Mbrooks420]

I have a pioneer w3041c and think it's not a bad speaker. I think $99 is outragous tho. I paid$59 at best buy over a year ago. I'd go with one of the MTX's if I were you. I am thinking of upgrading to 2 MTX 6000's. With the money you have you may want to get the 6000, unless you can get a good amp for a cheap price.

 

[texasexplorer]

MTX 8000 subs all the way!

 

[SaleenEXP]

MTX all the way, they under-rate all their products. I do recomend the Pioneer 3-way custom fit series for the doors, thats what I have. I have an MTX amp for mids and another MTX amp for my subs. I have three 10" 6000 and they pound hard ass hell but are still very clear. I'm pushing almost 700watts just to the subs and 400watts to doors, sounds incredible. If you have the dough go with MTX 8000 and an MTX amp you'll be very impressed. All their amps put out more power than they are rated for. The paper that came with my MTX 2300x amp for my subs said 688.?? watts rms and 755.?? peak, damn good considering it was only supposed to put out about 600 watts.

 

[Soundguy01tx]

Well I just put in new door speakers... I have the Poineer 3 way 6x8s up front, and the MTX 5x7 2 ways in the rear... wow, those pioneers kick butt. The MTS 5x7s leave a lot to be desired tho... I hear the MTX subs are better, but I dunno... I have heard the Pioneer Premier 10s and they were great... Thats probably the direction Im gonna head in a few months.
--bryan

 

[punkbek3886]

or you could convert to 4x4

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by punkbek3886
or you could convert to 4x4

?? what?

 

[lynchintha93x]

Ok,heres the deal. Pioneer and MTX are both two very legit compaies tryin to make a dollar out of 15 cents, if you catch my drift. Neither company makes a sub that is going to stand out in anyones mind as outstanding. Dont get me wrong, they wont sound bad, but chances are you will end up replacing them, or at least wanting to replace them. Heres my reasoning for my reply. MTX - makes a decent sub, however they lack in several technical areas...first being that the cone is an aluminum composite which wl heat up the glue holding on the dust cap, I speak from experience, after several weeks of nice solid bass you will notice a white substance (glue) coming from the dust cap. Second is the rubber surround, like most subs it is not stitched to the cone so life of it is very minimal and it wares easily and they dont flew too well either. Other than tha MTX makes an OK sub. As for pioneer, they claim that they have this superior VCCS (voic coil cooling system), unfortunately it doesnt work, if you give the sub the RMS power it recommends, the voice coils burn up and you end up clipping your amp. Plus Pioneers just dont put out that much bass. My suggestio would be to buy some Kicker Comps or JL 10 or 12w0's. Yes the w0's do blow easier, but it isnt very common. These two subs will sound significantly better. If you want to do everything very well, buy an amazing deck (Eclipse, Alpine, Kenwood etc...highoutput and good internal crossover networks) and then purchase some sweet components in the front and rear (Focal, Diamond, Kicker, Alpine Flagship, Rockford Fanatic X etc) and invest in a solid amp to run these. And then I would do some good front stage work like a Focal 5ws and a 6 1/2 component set all in kick panel enclosures and run these off another amp. Then buy one or two 10's and vent them at 1 and half the RMS power rating. Trust me, I speak from several years of experienceand six systems. You WILL thank me if you do this. Good luck! Sorry for suh a long post.

 

[davesexplorer]

where do i start?

well, im no expert, but i also have some experience with auto sound.
lynchintha93x-0I do like your sayin and Totally agree
"Pioneer and MTX are both two very legit compaies tryin to make a dollar out of 15 cents" This applies to all audio companies!!
however-
-If your subwoofer expels white substance, SOMETHING IS WRONG, for the lack of better tech info, you are pushing it to hard, maybe giving it a thousand watts rms, instead of the rated 400. The aluminum composite shouldn't heat up to the point of melting glue, if it does, ill refer you to my previous statement, SOMETHING IS WRONG!. Ive had friends running 8000's and 6000's for years now, and although they are not underpowered by any means, they aren't falling apart, or spittin glue. IF your subs glue was melting out of the dustcap, something is wrong!! (got tired of caps) 1.check the wattage, they rate RMS and Peak power for a reason,2. put the sub in a recommended air space too
3rd-this sub is not an extremely high quality sub, the 8000 is a good sub by anyones standards but is clearly not the best. Although there is some stuff that wont make sense to most people, here is the official website with tech info: Dead Link Removed

As for pioneer, the only experience i have with them is the 10" foamed diamondplate cone sub that i had for a while-not very good bass. the RMS i think was 250, correct me if im wrong, and i fed it 450-no problems whatsoever, (had to keep the gain down quite a bit though) I didn't burn it up, but then again i didn't try an SPL competition with it. I knew i was past its limits, and didn't want a fried sub. I dont belive for a second if you have a pioneer sub, soppose is rated for 300 watts rms. and your amp ACTUALLY puts 300 watts to it, and supposing the gain is set properly, the subwoofer wont have its coils burn up. Overall if a Sub "blows" you should try to find out what caused it, if you fed a 1,500 watts to a sony 10 rated at somethin like 150 watts i would bet money on the fact that you blew it with your amp. If you give a sub its rated rms wattage, and it blows, or spits glue, your warranty should cover it, and it might just be a workmanship error, not a design flaw. If MTX or Pioneer made their subs in such a way that they self destruct, they wouldv'e been out of business years ago.
but **** happens when you go past the limits of subwoofers, just ask the hard core SPL competitors how many subs they blow cuz their sending tons more watts to a sub than it is supposed to handle. Anyways whitey good luck with the sub choice, i finally PM'd you sorry it took so long.

 

[lynchintha93x]

Dave...I realize that something was wrong, and you are very right there, however I foud it odd because he was giving the sub (Thunder 6000 12)600 watts RMS which isnt over the top or under powered. My best guess is that there was a defect in the sub or possibly my friend bought a refurbished sub and didnt know it which is not likely since he did buy it from a dealer. Either way, to me a good sub should "come unglued" and that is why I went on to say that I recomend the kicker subs because careful design went intothe subs, its the little things like stictching to suround to the cone to add longer life that really make me a buyer ad consumer of their products.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by lynchintha93x
Dave...I realize that something was wrong, and you are very right there, however I foud it odd because he was giving the sub (Thunder 6000 12)600 watts RMS which isnt over the top or under powered. My best guess is that there was a defect in the sub or possibly my friend bought a refurbished sub and didnt know it which is not likely since he did buy it from a dealer. Either way, to me a good sub should "come unglued" and that is why I went on to say that I recomend the kicker subs because careful design went intothe subs, its the little things like stictching to suround to the cone to add longer life that really make me a buyer ad consumer of their products.

We're you referring to my 6000's. I've had three 10" 6000 for scince 11th grade (about 3 years now) and my amp was rated close to 700 watts rms on the paper from MTX. I pound the hell out of hit every single day scince I got my whole system together 3 years ago, actually it's my sisters truck now so she bangs it out now, and I have none of that white stuff comming out. Actually my system hits a lot harder than my friend running 600watts to his Kicker Comp VR 12's and the bass sounds a lot clearer. Out of all the guys I've met, really rhe only ones that were louder were the Kicker Solobarics, that JL series (can't remember the name but its a nice sub), Memphis, and Audibahn. For the money you cannot top MTX, especially for their amps which are under-rated, but my next system will be with Audiobahn's Flame Q series subs when our dealer gets in an 02' 4.6 Mounty, which are incredible and look sweet as hell.

 

[2K1Xplorer]

I have a Pioneer Premier 12 that I have had for 2-3 years. I run 150 rms/250 peak into it and it's outstanding. My system is more SQ than SPL. But I pop in a bass cd and that sub with shake the whole Explorer. It's all about the sensitivity!

 

[Mbrooks420]

Pioneer and MTX are both two very legit compaies tryin to make a dollar out of 15 cents"

Umm they're not selling CRACK.

As for pioneer, they claim that they have this superior VCCS (voic coil cooling system), unfortunately it doesnt work, if you give the sub the RMS power it recommends, the voice coils burn up and you end up clipping your amp

I also don't believe this AT ALL. I have been overpowering my Pioneer 12 for almost 3 years. I run it a lot at work(beats a boom box for 5 hours at a time at 3/4 my deck volume. 3/4 is as loud as I can turn up my deck. I think I would have burnt the voice coils out by now. I;d much rather have a MTX 8000 than a Kicker comp. How old are the kicker comps anyways?

 

[SaleenEXP]

MTX all the way, and like Mbrooks420 said above, I've also been pumping over 700 watts into my three 10" MTX6000's for three years also, and not one problem or glue or whatever some of you said has occured. Theres a kid at my college you has three 15" MTX-8000 subs powered by three MTX-8100 class D amps (1 for each sub) and it's insane, forget about hearing someone comming up from a block or two, you can hear him like half a mile away He's had that setup for 2 years, and also no problems or surround ripping and whatnot!

EDIT - anyone else notice that if your at a sound contest, almost every single person is running MTX, with the rest usually running Kicker or JL? Score 1 for MTX!

 

[davesexplorer]

"Pioneer and MTX are both two very legit compaies tryin to make a dollar out of 15 cents"
"Umm they're not selling CRACK."

ah but grasshopper, if you only knew the price a company pays VS. the RETAIL price, i think that if you found the legit numbers you would be suprised.

yeah i know, someone slap me!!

-Ive been told numbers like (this is a for instance)
MA audio Synergy
Company pays avg 20.00 (quoted by dealer)
Retail is 714.00

average profit $694

Just something to know!

 

[whitey]

thanks for all of your advice. I finally decided on 4 5x7/6x8's pioneer 3way for the doors and a 12" MTX Thunder8000 with a 800 watt Lanzar amp bridged to power the sub. got a good deal a 3/4 thick box and the amp for only about $100. Just finished installing the amp and sub today sounds pretty good inside but outside isn't that loud but you can hear the hatch rattle. Hopefully getting pics soon and maybe even dynomating my rear cargo area and doors to prevent rattle.