My 95 Ford Aerostar has an electrical problem, and can't start.

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Toby
Okay, what I wrote below still goes, but the principle behind the whole digital conversion is ablity to generate a diagnostic rather than swap or change stuff until some problem is perhaps repaired. The ECM must be onboard in circuit to get a good read on the system for diagnostic purposes. Just scanning a ECM will not solve a problem in vehicle in a controlled or certain manner, it falls back into "guess work" & the idea is to eliminate guess work.

Most vehicles with EFI don't have ignition modules, just like they don't have distribuitors, or carburetors either. They have coil packs, and fuel injection systems.
While OBD I versions have an ECM or Engine Control Modules (dreaded "Computer") OBD II version, '96 & later have a PCM or Performance Control Module (also a dreaded Computer). The OBD II is different programming & sequencing than OBD I. We / I have been talking OBD I as that's what is OEM in a '95 Aerostar by FoMoCo.

You state you've a '95 which should be OBD I system. OBD I systems of 95 vintage do not have ignition control modules nor carburetor to backfire in. If by engine cover cowl you mean a black tube that runs across in front between air filter chamber on pass' side fender well & throttle body on top, front of engine, and you removced that & then tried to start it, it can't run. The MAFS (Mass Air Flow Sensor) would be missing from system.
MAFS is what must be unplugged near Air Filter chamber to remove black intake tube off of the vehicle. That opens your system to atmosphere making sensors virtually useless.
Backfiring in an intake manifold or intake plenum can be disasterous to Mass Air Flow Sensed engines. The Intake system must be intact & remain sealed in order for engine to start & run. At least on FoMoCo Aerostars built after 1990.
If you can, put it back together & get it to run. Take it to a Big Box like "Advance AP" or "Autozone" or some equivalent franchised parts supplier/distribuitor who will scan your system for free. Be sure to get code numbers the tech reads out. If he doesn't read them out, ask him for the code by number & be sure to get them correct.
Tell us the codes he got. Several folks here can tell you where to go from there. I also suggest you purchase a repair manual for your particular Year & Model Aerostar. I'm not certain what you are referring to as the "engine cover cowl" ? If nothing else, s proper repair manual will help you get your nominclature correct. It will make this much easier.
I know of the intake tube & snow shield around throttle body linkage at front of plenum.
"Cowl" generally refers to louvred black grillework behind & above hood & below bottom of
windshield, where WSW (windshield wiper) arms attach.
This is not as complicated as it may at first seem, but it is a lot different from days of Ignition Modules & Carburetors for sure. I been in this a long long long time, believe me. The hardware has changed a lot, operations & functions have morphed an awful lot also. But like anything else once you get a handle on it, it's very doable.

CIAO
FBp

Took a bit to teach myself how to post a picture on the forum hope it works ok. This should clear up what Im calling the ECM and the engine cowl that I had removed. Also engine question yes I think that is what I have 3.0 V6.

I will place a call into Auto Zone to see if I can have them perform scan as requested and yes it started up strong and just fine this AM in sub freezing weather and might I add no rain!

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Just spoke with local Auto Zone store and was informed they do perform free scans however they cant help me because they can only scan vehicles starting with 1996 and up with a OBD II unit.

I looked on the net and Im trying to teach myself the best I can about all the great advice everyone is giving me on the forum and found both written and video YouTube subject matter on this subject your telling me about. So I dont want to purchase a OBD I scanner but came across something that I wanted your in put on.

Seems you can run a crude scan with a paper clip to get the codes? Not sure this is true will this work for me?

After more research on the net found what I think you want me to plug into on my aerostar - if this is correct where would I plug in the paper clip? Also can I read the codes from my check engine prompt on my dash as in picture?

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Im on a roll now!
Tried fooling around with my trusty paper clip while waiting for someone to get back to me on the forum and SHAZAM I got it to go into the diagnostic mode! ! !

Now I have to make sure I can read the blinking code its giving me then I will post for your help wish me luck man-o-man the wind is howling and its still freezing outside today but I feel like with your help Im getting closer to solving this old girls problems!

Toby

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Well I did my best getting the scan read out numbers so please keep in mind this is the very first time I have ever done anything like this in my life "performed with engine not running" but I must confess Im a little confused on how they are to be read so I will let that up to the pros on the forum to help me on that and what the code means? And the only read out that showed "with the engine running" was (3)? ? ? Shouldnt there of been more coming off an engine scan?

And something very odd observed when running engine today a great deal of water came pouring out of the exhaust pipe to the likes Ive never seen before? As you recall I had starting problems yesterday due to rain event but wow from the looks of all the water running out it would seem it was rainning directly inside the engine.



Here are the numbers from scan performed today.
(I will type them as I took them for you to direct me to true number)

116
114
116
114
1211212 (These came all so close together not sure help)
542
211
212
542

With engine running.

3



Thanks for any help you can throw my way!

Toby

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Update:
This afternoon again tried with the scan with engine running still only got (3) and waited for a good 10 min. for it to show something but it didnt. So tried something else after the engine was good and warm turned it off reset paper clip then repeted by just truning on ignition key forward but not turning over engine and this time got new scan numbers to share!


Warm engine just turning on ignition key forward - not starting engine.

111
111
121
121
254
221
121
254
2


PS When I get the first blink this drops down my engine rpms sharply pulling power in engine moving battery amp gage indicator sharply down negative dimming my instrument cluster radio lights etc.

Are we getting closer to fixing this old girl I hope so and Ill be waiting to hear from you with info.

Toby

 

[BrooklynBay]

Take a look at the list of code definitions in my sticky thread on the top of the EEC-IV section.

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Take a look at the list of code definitions in my sticky thread on the top of the EEC-IV section.

If this is the correct link you want me to take a look at - - -
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160035

Im not sure what Im looking at for example would you agree that the scan numbers Ive posted for example 1 2 1 would be read 121 or would you read it 1 2 1 = 3 if Im reading numbers correctly (when I perform scans today I performed them several times to be sure to post them as best as I read them) then after checking your listing I dont see any info for 254 & 221? Im sure this is all second nature to you but I must admit Im a novice learning as I go along and I think so far Ive done ok but need your help along the way as we get into this deeper.

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Today Sunday 11/28/10 after not hearing back from anyone on the fourm I tried another shot on performing KOER and came up with these two codes.

542

Fuel pump circuit open - PCM to motor ground
or
Fuel pump open bad ground or always on - - Power / Fuel Pump Circuits



212 Loss of Ignition Diagnostic Module Input to PCM/SPOUT Circuit Grounded



Could these be good candidates for my posted electrical problem?

 

[BrooklynBay]

The first code could be caused by an open circuit on the fuel pump relay or the inertia switch. The second code could be the result of a bad ignition module or a bad connection in the socket. I had this code on my van last week. I unplugging the module, and plugging it in. It seems like it helped for the time being until the check engine light came back again. It was running rough & surging with a check engine light when I had this code last week.

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

The first code could be caused by an open circuit on the fuel pump relay or the inertia switch. The second code could be the result of a bad ignition module or a bad connection in the socket. I had this code on my van last week. I unplugging the module, and plugging it in. It seems like it helped for the time being until the check engine light came back again. It was running rough & surging with a check engine light when I had this code last week.

I had the ignition module changed, so that's not the problem. I will be stopping off to see if or what can be done for the code 542 problem. I hope it is not too expensive, and that it does the trick!

Wish me luck. I will update today, and thanks for sharing.

Toby

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Well its a day later but for any one that is following along on this saga this is the latest update!

Called local service center set up and made arraignments to drop off the old gal he said it couldnt get to it till next week I told him ok I really need to have this looked into. I even offered to remove my engine passenger area cover "the same one posted in this thread" and after the laughing ended on the other side of the phone he said he sure would appreciate that because he knows what thats like and how hard it is to remove them. I told him no problem Ive had plenty of practice with taking it off. So I dropped off my Aerostar with service manager Ted after spending about 10 min. or so explaining my situation in detail to him and added I wanted the alternator also tested because it is of concern to me and I informed him of the scan numbers from my test and informed him of the help the kind folks on this forum have been giving me! He added thats great and asked if he could keep my info which I had taken with me from all test scans and related problems with definitions from your on line link read out explaination sheets. I said of course and added Im glad you asked for it. That showed me he really was going to look into the problems for me and wanted all the information I could to help him with that.

So thats all for now even though he cant get to pull it in right away but said he would jump on it for me when he gets an opening between other work which works for me and the first thing he will do is when we get rain "as I write this its rainning and calling for 2" of rain on Wed." he will take time to jump in the van and trouble shoot the problem of not starting when it rains.


Wish me luck I cant wait for his phone call and will be sure to share updates with you all.


Toby

 

[TOBYS LAST RODEO]

Well its a week later and today I spoke with the service manager and was informed with some good news which is a little improvment from the last time I posted!


It has been confirmed both my battery and alternator are 100% and are not part of my problem. (Needs to continue tracking down gound problem)

He also had the chance to try starting my truck during a heavy rain event and found the very same situation I have been having that was also reported to you on the forum. (He will look into this thinking coil etc. problem?)

The next move as agreed on will be that he continues the quest when he has an opening between other work in the shop. This is helping me keep the cost down to find the problems and so far we are well under 2 hours on his end.



So thats my update for today but if anyone has any new ideas or suggestions please feel free to join in and Ill besure to do another update from the garage when I get one.

TOBY

 

[mossgreen]

Hello.
I joined the forum because I have the identical problem that TOBY is having, electrical issues that interfere with everything, including, but not limited to: lights, signal lights, heat, air, and most annoyingly, starting. Mine is a 97 XLT E4WD, Cologne 4.0 liter. Low mileage and utility space make me want to fix this, although almost every other day someone knocks on the door and asks if I want to sell. I finally put a sign near the doorbell: RE: VAN - Don't Ask, WON'T SELL!! Lots of folks just want to get a van cheap, I guess. I still have a teen at home, though, so I'll hang on to it just in case one of us needs to park it DOWN BY THE RIVER and live there. After a few new batteries, mechanics, AAA towing and jumpstarts, I still haven't found the solution.
All clues appreciated. THANKS!!!

 

[BrooklynBay]

Welcome to this forum! Check the battery cables, and the charging system. I occasionally get people ringing my bell to ask if I want to sell my vans. Some of these guys are very persistent, and keep coming to see if I changed my mind. Ford thought that there would be no market for them, and discontinued them.

 

[FORDBOYpete]

Mossgreen,
Any post 1996 Vehicle will have an OBD II system. It is unlike OBD 1 systems in 1995 or earlier vehicles, so truthfully you can't have the Identical type of problem TOBY has. Good News is any decent "parts supplier" is able to scan your OBD II for you.

Having said that, I will tell you I believe your problem is not necessarily to do with your PCM [aka Digital Operating system] as much as it is more to do with something fundamental in the electrical system such as intermittent or otherwise "bad" ground or dirty connections, worn ignition buss switch or the adjustment between your Ignition Lock & Buss Switch via it's control rod. IOW mechanical opposed to electrical system component based problem. I am not completely ruling out a defective PCM, intermittent circuit voltage can certainly damage a PCM, but that, if true, most likely is secondary & caused by whatever is causing your apparent Voltage Variation.

If I was dealing with it I'd connect my VOM meter in line between ground or negative cable & negative Battery post, then get system to "fault" & check what current flow or lack of it, is reading. If it reads below 12V I'd begin to look for a reason. Lights, accessories & so forth are not component to Op Sys or PCM circuitry or function. They are a part of the entire electrical system, as is PCM but it is only a system relationship. One has nothing to do with the other, except both use same current source in first place. Thus it only leaves circuitry which includes connection quality & switching ability which is shared or "in common" with electrical sourcing [Battery/ Alt]. I feel if a problem is symptomatically intermittent, power to PCM will also be intermittent.

I've seen people re-place everything in their "mysterious" computer based electronics systems but still not get their vehicle to start & run simply due to the fact a timing belt or chain which is mechanical, not electrical failure. I'm not saying you have that particular problem, but suspect you've a mechanical problem/ malfunction being mistaken as electrical. It is 1 reason I'm not in Auto/ Light truck service & repair business anymore. Another is Big Box auto service depts, are relatively clueless about current AutoTechnology. I know that's a wholesale assination of service techs working for min' or avg' wages but it's also relatively true.

There was a time when a qualified service tech could make a great living & be proud of what we did. Those days are gone by the wayside apparently. The wind has been taken out of the sails of good service techs & job pride as it all got aimed @ Sundown & Payday by money moguls [atleast in my very predjudiced opinion on this sensative and personal subject.]

Think OUTSIDE TODAY'S BOX & do not overlook basics & fundamentals as potential causes. Most of all Do NOT Overthink Obvious Problems. Apply the KISS theory to effect repairs.

Good luck Mossgreen, and keep us advised on your progress.

PS
I instructed my family to put silver handles on my Aero & bury me in it when I die. I'd sell it, but my starting price is $250,000.oo and olny goes up the more they pester me, LOL ;~))))
CIAO Y'All
FBp

 

[mossgreen]

Thanks for the INFO!!!!

Thank-you so much for the info - I am now inspired to go where I dare not before - my own garage, not the local mechanic. It seems like perseverance will be my most useful tool - mechanics are reluctant to spend and charge for the time it takes to test everything, keep track, etc. I WILL get the van on the road, it is such a fun summer vehicle and I think it has under 100K miles - I'll know more once the battery is charged.
LOL Yesterday a guy asked me to sell - I said SURE - ten grand, cash, and it's yours. For 210 grand, I'll throw in the house, with the van, that gives you five bedrooms! Easy Terms - 100% down, no payments!!!!
AGAIN - I really appreciate this forum and I will visit often!::

 

[brendijohnson]

same issue here

however i can replce s fuse underhood and it will run for a min then blow again plz help

 

[jlh3rd]

i hope i can help you here.....i have a 92, that i had intermittent trouble starting, especially after rain.....i had more than a year dealing with this......well, about 2 weeks ago, i found the problem...the wire bundle that goes to the ignition module was full of water !....obviously, water was making it's way under the hood and collecting in this wire bundle...this bundle ran from the top middle of the hood area ,then down and then up to the module mounted on the rt. inner fender...which allowed water to pool...so i moved the bundle up over the airbox so water can't collect.......it seems to have eliminated the problem.......i don't know how your 95 wiring is routed, but, at least check this out, it might help...
i was also getting the codes you mentioned concerning fuel pump ...

 

[BrooklynBay]

Welcome to this forum! Which fuse is blowing out?