Completed Project My 98 super charged EX

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8 Rib Pulleys for the 4.0 SOHC

Edit: see post 943 for the custom made Crank, Water Pump, and Power Steering pulleys that were made by ASP racing. http://autospecialties.com/
Done Edit.

The need to go to 8 rib pulleys to try to prevent supercharger belt slip has me looking into this more.
JD has had ASP make him a crank pulley that is larger in diameter and has 8 ribs.
He stated the 2 extra ribs are, "one on each side" on his custom pulley.
Post 389 here
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=382711&page=20


It is said that upper SC pulleys smaller than 2.7 have a tendancy to slip due to the loss of belt gripping surface
and I am using a 2.5 inch upper.
I could have a crank pulley made with a larger diameter like JD did and then use a larger SC pulley.
If I do that then the other components will be over spinning and the setup would work backwords from an underdrive pulley system and that would
mean loss of horepower to the wheels, so can I find larger pulleys for them to compensate?
If found will they fit?
Will an 8 rib setup alone stop the slipping?
Can ASP make a stock 6 inch 8 rib crank pulley for me? We know they can make a 7 inch one thanks to JD.
I sent an email to ASP to ask about the 6 inch crank pulley with 8 ribs, I will be waiting for their reply.

Here is what I found out about the other pulleys with stock diameters for the 6 inch crank pulley, so far.

Using an 8 rib AC pulley where are the extra ribs? Answer: Both are added on the front side, so this is where I will try to put all the extra ribs.
YB522 / F6TH-19D784-AA = 5.25 inches
This 8 rib pulley is a perfect fit, no need to change the clutch field coil, but you have to change the front clutch hub. All I had to do was remove the
hub with the one bolt that holds it on, once the hub was off then removed the snap ring. Pulley came right off and 8 rib pulley went right on. The
distance from the back of the pulley to the clutch filed coil concerned me until I saw that it would be the same as the old compressor I got the 8 rib
pulley off of. I will later replace this pulley and hub with a new one, since this one is used.
The hub is YB406 / F10H-19D786-AB

8 Rib alternator pulley, the two extra ribs would be on the front side (does not fit perfect, have to grind back down to get it closer to alternator)
I am experimenting to see if I can grind it down or not. (If it doesn't turn out well I will order another one and send it to ASP to have it shaved
down).
Motorcraft GP-720


The tensioner pulley is around 70mm with aproximately 16.75 mm hole.
Thump RRR Racing PM-2070-G
I put this 8 rib pulley on my old tensioner housing (Dayco 89230) but had to use a washer or two to space it correctly so the pulley wont rub. That made the ribs go
more towards the front side like needed. The 6 rib belt rides right where it should at the back 6 ribs with out jumping, everything seems lined up
perfectly the way it is now.

Idler pulleys 90mm
I have two idler pulleys since I made a bracket to accomadate a second Idler for more belt wrap around the supercharger.
Right now they are both 90mm, the stock one would be very easy to change to a 100mm for a tighter fit on the belt if a smaller belt is not available.
I purchased two 90mm Goodyear Idlers from eBay that would work with the 8 rib belt. The Idlers are smooth, not ribbed. The ebay seller emailed
me and said he didn't have the goodyear ones but did have another brand in stock. After making sure they were metal I told him to send them.
One of these pulleys is the one that gave me problems. The pulley moved backwards on its bearing casuing it to rub the bracket and bolt that were
behind it. Junk! I also saw where the factory pulleys have failed, so I ordered some more expensive stronger looking aluminum ones. I will post
more about them when they arrive.

Still need to work on these:
The water pump pulley looks wide enough to run the 8 rib belt but it sits back a little to far.
The power steering pump has a bolt on pulley, maybe the hub can be pressed off the power steering pump shaft.
Maybe not, I saw a picture of the same pump and the hub was broken as if someone tried to remove it unsuccessfully.
I have ordered a stock water pump and power steering to send to ASP to see what they can do, I also ordered a power steering pump to
experiment with, maybe I can press that hub off.

1. Tensioner pulley
2. Tensioner belt alignment
3. 8 Rib AC pulley
4. Bad Idler pulley (moved on it's bearing)
5. Idler pulleys
6. Alternator pulley

 

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8 rib pulleys on a 4.0 SOHC

In the first picture you can see the clearance I had behind my extra idler pulley, at the track that pulley moved backwards on it's bearing and started rubbing the bracket and bolt behind the pulley.

The second picture shows correct alternator belt alignment, third shows how the belt ****ed on the Idler pulley after installing the 8 rib alternator pulley. It will require some grinding on the backside of it to get it closer to the alternator housing.

 

[CDW6212R]

Good work, you have been busy. That is hard research, you covered it all.

The PS pulley and crank pulley are the hardest pieces. I know the V6 and 302 PS pumps are different part numbers(same pulley). As you said I hope the PS has a hub on it the same as normal common PS pulleys, and we can just press an 8-rib unit on.


FYI, the Mustangs have models with 6-6.5" crank pulleys, and most in SOHC applications. So the normal acceptable rpm's for accessories can be compared to those. A 7" crank pulley is not ridiculously too large for accessory rpm's. We're generally aiming for under 6k engine rpm's, many people with DOHC V8's are way over that with blowers.

I'm hoping to get ASP to make at least a 6.5" crank pulley with 8-ribs, for a 94/95 Mustang V8.

Keep at it, those are needed finishing touches.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

with my 7 1/4 pulley when i was having charging problems (and it turned out to be a bad alt) i put the stock 6 1/4 back on to see if i was spinning the alt to fast. i was surprised just how much of a dog the truck turned into. with the smaller crank pulley i was making about 4lbs of boost, the larger i am around 7 to 8. off the line with the bigger crank pulley it will snap you backwards, the stock its like "ok, we should maybe think about moving from just sitting here". i think the power loss you will have going to a larger crank pulley to gain even more boost will go unnoticed and will more then likely be worth it

 

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8 Rib alternator pulley for 4.0 sohc

So I grinded the GP-720 Alternator pulley down on the back side for a better fit.
Everything lined up and it doesn't wobble. I am surprised because my method of grinding was anything but precise.

 

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Drill Press/Grinder

Here was my grinding setup. lol. I can't believe it worked.

 

[CDW6212R]

I just remembered that one of the alternators I bought around 2008 had a pulley like that(the back needing material removed). I noticed it when I got the truck running, and the belt was "off" there, it was back one rib, partially riding on the back lip.

I used a file to hand remove the material, it did take 10-15 minutes. Your way is probably straighter, I did it by eye. I love a ******* file, it eats.

 

[4pointslow]

*******

I just remembered that one of the alternators I bought around 2008 had a pulley like that(the back needing material removed). I noticed it when I got the truck running, and the belt was "off" there, it was back one rib, partially riding on the back lip.

I used a file to hand remove the material, it did take 10-15 minutes. Your way is probably straighter, I did it by eye. I love a ******* file, it eats.

I had to look up ******* file. lol.
I would have hurt myself trying to do it with just a file.
It was just one rib off on mine as well, that one rib off caused the belt to ride about 1/4 inch off to one side of the Idler pulley.

 

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4.0 SOHC Power Steering Pump Hub Removal

Picked up a used Power Steering pump so I could experiment with trying to remove the hub.
I was able to press it off with a Harbor Frieght press and a bearing splitter. I used the larger of the two bearing splitters.
The pump shaft diameter measured with a precise micrometer was 16mm.

So it is possible to remove the hub from the PS pump, if a suitable 8 rib pulley is found it could be used.

 

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Idler Pulleys for an 8 rib belt on a 4.0 SOHC

On a 4.0 SOHC there is only one idler pulley but mine has two. I added a second one to get more belt wrap on the supercharger. In the process of trying to switch to an 8 rib belt setup, I have been trying different components.
The earlier idler pulleys I tried have a high failure rate in extreme conditions and one of mine even moved on it's bearing which caused it to rub the bracket behind it.

So I ordered an idler pulley off eBay that was labeled as an LFP pulley (Lightning Force Performance).
I figured that it would only work for the stock idler location on my 4.0 SOHC.
It worked great after some playing around with different washers to space it correctly.

For my second Idler I ordered one off eBay that is from Billet Pro Shop, it has diffent depths on either side and can be installed in either direction. It had the clearance behind it for my custom application. There is also a snap ring on both these pulleys to keep them from moving off their bearings.

 

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Atco Raceway Friday Night

Got to the track again. Had some serious belt slippage and traction problems too. The guy in front of me did not have traction problems, check out the wheelie.

 

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Got Boost?

In this video you can see the boost dropping down to 14-15 when the RPM is still high. Serious belt slippage.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

wow. it i was looking correctly was your boost jumping around 4-5 pounds when the belt was slipping?
that and its funny. glad to know i am not the only one that takes a deep breath before the tree drops lol

 

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20 lbs of boost on a Ford Explorer 4.0 SOHC

I replaced the belt at the track, the boost hit 20lbs.

 

[4pointslow]

wow. it i was looking correctly was your boost jumping around 4-5 pounds when the belt was slipping?
that and its funny. glad to know i am not the only one that takes a deep breath before the tree drops lol

Yes, the boost was all over the place. At least I know what it looks like when the belt slips now. lol.
I took a lot of deep breaths last night. Made it home in one piece though.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

20 pounds.......on a stock SOHC.....and heres me whos to chicken to go over 10 pounds with a motor that has ARP everything, and is built to take it....supposedly
you can even hear the different pitch of sound it makes in the last video compared to the first 2

 

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ASP Racing

I have sent a crank damper/pulley, power steering, and water pump pulley to ASP in Texas to have them take a look and see what they can do for an 8 rib set up. Be a while before they get there (6 days shipping). Hope to cure that belt slipping once and for all.
The belt I put on that night will stretch and start to slip eventually.
I need more traction now, got to find a tire/wheel combo that works with my set up.

 

[CDW6212R]

I have sent a crank damper/pulley, power steering, and water pump pulley to ASP in Texas to have them take a look and see what they can do for an 8 rib set up. Be a while before they get there (6 days shipping). Hope to cure that belt slipping once and for all.
The belt I put on that night will stretch and start to slip eventually.
I need more traction now, got to find a tire/wheel combo that works with my set up.

That's solid performance, and hopefully ASP will make something feasible that makes a wider belt possible.

BTW, do you like any other OEM wheels? The stock 94-04 Mustangs had many choices for 17x8" wheels, and most are reasonable to get. I just settled on another late 90's set for snow tires, for my SUV's.

My Mountaineer will get a 275/55/17 size. Will that work for your truck, those tires run in the $150 range from what I see? I'm aiming at the Toyo Proxes ST II tire, I hope they are sticky and last a long time.
TIRECRAWLER.COM

 

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Tires and Wheels

Don't get me started on tires and wheels. lol.
It is driving me nuts because I have to have the same diameter tire for all 4 because of the auto 4WD. That and I don't know how much smaller I can go in diameter due to the 4.88 gears I installed.
I have been looking at some Mickey Thompson drag radials but I would have to use 15 inch rims. It is very frustrating.

One thing I came across was Toyo Proxes size 285 60 17, they are the stock size of the Gen 1 Lightning's. I like the Gen 1 lightning wheels too but they have a different lug pattern. I might be able to put them on the back but I don't think they would fit up front. If they have the same revs per mile than maybe just in the back, but then what do I do for the front rims/wheels?

Today I tried my ranger wheels with 31x10.5 15's on them. The 15's wont fit the front because of the 2003 sport spindles I put on for the bigger rotors.
My stock size tires (255 70 16) are only 7 inches wide, the 31's are 9 inches wide. Not much difference there. I am thinking I may need drag radials to get the traction I need anyway. I wish they made them in more sizes.

 

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The Race That Ended My Friday Night Racing

My seventh race was on when all of a sudden I felt a loss of power.
Then the check engine light comes on and starts flashing, when that happens it means you have a type A misfire and should pull over because catalytic converter damage may be occurring. I didn't stop. I also won the race. lol.

I went back to my parking space and pulled the code, it was a P0306. The misfire had gone away so I cleared the codes and decided it best to call it a night. On the way home I got into it a little hard and the misfire came back.

Today I replaced the spark plugs for number 6 and it's companion cylinder which is number 2. Didn't help. I then replaced the coil, didn't help.
The misfire only happens when I get on it hard, with boost around 15lbs or more. I checked for codes again, this time had P0306 and P0301.
Next Friday I am off, I plan to replace the rest of the spark plugs and then diagnose the problem.

I am thinking maybe spark plugs, wires, PCM, Vampire, or injectors. I don't know if it is spark or fuel injectors cutting out. The misfire only happens under heavy load so I am ruling out compression but who knows. As soon as I let off the pedal the misfire goes away. I am actually kind of happy to have something to diagnose. lol.