NA4LSOHCBUT [Not ANOTHER 4.0L SOHC Build Up Thread!]

[Jakee]

Here is you explanation. You are right and Rocket is right in the same token. First off some software doesn't allow locking of the torque convertor. So they would pull in 2nd (which obviously would yield a higher rpm) and more than likely the convertor would stay locked and especially if the vehicle has the speed limiter enabled you would get on the speed limiter before ever completing a full pull in a 1:1 gear. Believe it or not I do have customers who at thier request still have the stock limiters in place. As a side note just for dyno purposes yes I could temporarily remove it on the dyno then replace the limiter when finished but at 4 customers request they wanted to see what the vehicle would do in "street" form so 2nd gear pull was a mandatory-don't ask I dont know they pay I execute. Also 2nd is mandatory for a stock vehicle wanting a baseline-untuned. Now on the dyno I have tested the differences between 2nd and 4th(5speed auto) and there wasnt an ounce of difference in hp. The dyno operater (owner, not a kid) confirmed this as well. Now don't think I would ever dyno a higher hp automobile in 2nd the pull would just be too quick. But on the stock explorers if it has to be done then I feel comfortable. I personally always lock the convertor and pull 4th, but on occasion have had to execute 2nd.

Thanks James.

 

[rocket 5979]

Also, I have about 3 solid weekends worth of datalogging on my tune. I'm pretty sure yours doesn't have that kind of effort in it.

Fred, tunes only get so good before they cannot really get any better. Whether it was 3 weeks or 30 minutes, logging is logging when it comes to tuning a vehicle. You probably gained about as much power as would anyone else who logged less time. However, if you logged allot of trans stuff to get your shifting PERFECT where you want it then that can make up some speed difference but it will obviously not make up a power difference.

 

[Jakee]

8 RWHP MAX (From a tune) is what you'll get from a 4.0 SOHC. I do have data to back this if you want...

But, I agree, maybe the shift points can get you there...

 

[Fredness]

Wow...

"8RWHP max" is peak for the vast majority of tunes, if you tune for peak HP.
I've shown more than a 25hp increase at different RPM's with a peak increase of 4HP. This is the point of this thread, to break up some of these paradigms and misconceptions.

Repeated data collection isn't for HP, it is for driveability and fine tuning. Remember, the MAF is different, the IAT is moved/reconfigured and the tires are much taller than stock. This means the MAF Transfer Function is just well enough to get the vehicle running, the IAT readings are lower and the N/V is now off.

This is getting the shifting dead on, the idle is now stable and the "dips" in the torque are all but gone. Since this is a daily driver, the vast majority of MAF points ar being moved lower in the load scale. This gives me higher resolution for adjustments.

If I just flashed it and was rollin' around for PCM "learning purposes", yes, I would be wasting my time and fuel. But since this is a rewrite, the wife can tell you it is time well spent. She says it feels like a new truck (and she's asking about a supercharger, I said "...sure, right after I turbocharge the Focus" ).

 

[Jakee]

Wow...

"8RWHP max" is peak for the vast majority of tunes, if you tune for peak HP.
I've shown more than a 25hp increase at different RPM's with a peak increase of 4HP. This is the point of this thread, to break up some of these paradigms and misconceptions.

Repeated data collection isn't for HP, it is for driveability and fine tuning. Remember, the MAF is different, the IAT is moved/reconfigured and the tires are much taller than stock. This means the MAF Transfer Function is just well enough to get the vehicle running, the IAT readings are lower and the N/V is now off.

This is getting the shifting dead on, the idle is now stable and the "dips" in the torque are all but gone. Since this is a daily driver, the vast majority of MAF points ar being moved lower in the load scale. This gives me higher resolution for adjustments.

If I just flashed it and was rollin' around for PCM "learning purposes", yes, I would be wasting my time and fuel. But since this is a rewrite, the wife can tell you it is time well spent. She says it feels like a new truck (and she's asking about a supercharger, I said "...sure, right after I turbocharge the Focus" ).

Fredness - I have to agree with you. You're tuning for the "Usable" range and this is one thing that James has told me over and over again. This is the RIGHT way of doing things so I'm on the same page with you.

The main thing here is that your wife is happy.

But, I've been there and done what your doing EXCEPT for the final tune. I know what the gains are and I know that ALMOST ALL INTAKES are going to make just about the same thing. I know how much the exhaust will help. I do think the exhaust is a little more "tricky" to get just right. You're not going to see HUGE differences between this and that like I once thought. Why? cuss I've been there and done that.

The only point I'm trying to make, and I feel it's a valid point, is this should be a TRUE indication of what mods do; Not a selling point for "rouge performance" which, in my opinion, is what this is turning into. A selling point that is not true is just more BS, and there is enough of that in here.

Okay - Now, prove me wrong..

 

[Fredness]

You must be kidding...

Well, if you think this is just pimping a product, I'm affraid the point has been missed completely...

ANYONE that is willing to take the time can do this, I have never once said that I am the only one. Have you done any data logging? Have you worked with YOUR tuner to see what they can do for you? Chances are, most people who are reading this didn't even know that this type of work could be done. Hell, many of them still throw the "Chip" word around

I don't give a rattsarse if you use Sniper, TwEECr, Diablo or Jet, YOU need to be a smarter consumer so you can better separate the reality from the BS. If you can't, you are throwing your money away. I'm not in the habit of doing that.

The reoccuring theme has been don't overlook the obvious, safety first and document, document, document. I'm pretty sure anyone that has read this thread has walked away with something, even some "experts". If there is something in particular you take offense to, PM me and I'll do something about it, but I have no idea what's pushed your button.

We've covered more ground in 5 pages than some other threads have done in 10 times as many...

...and please, lay off the "Quote" button... :

 

[Jakee]

It's just not adding up Fred, that's all. No need to PM or anything like that; carry on.

 

[Fredness]

What's not adding up?

 

[Jakee]

Let's see the 0-60 DATA with a screen shot. I'll do the same with every MOD i've done, plus the weight reduction I've done. If your 0-60 is the same as mine, you've found some sort of secret.

 

[Fredness]

I find a long, flat, straight, secluded spot.
I start from a complete stop.
I mash the pedal to the floor and hang on.

The times are between the PCM and my PC; I have nothing to do with them.

There are no secrets, the equipment, steps and procedures have been meticulously laid out in this thread.

Your altitude is 361 ft, mine is 10 ft at best (on the coast), but that isn't too much of a difference. I also have fresh plugs, wires, O2's and 93K on the clock. Curb weighs (factory) are identical for the 1998/2001, so you should be lighter.

Send me your 0-60 datalog and I'll convert it for you... That way we can be sure its the same procedure. Then you can compare side-by-side. fred (at) (click on my user name for the homepage, that's my domain)

 

[Jakee]

Okay - I'll do that. I'll send you 3 runs, hopefully this weekend.

 

[DLIDDYFL]

Can you post em here so we can see to?

 

[Fredness]

Sure... if Jakee's up for it.

 

[aldive]

I too would like to view your data.

 

[Jakee]

That's fine. (posting in here) This thread is much better than mine.


It's raining so I won't be able to run today.

 

[Jakee]

Just sent 4 datalogs.

 

[Fredness]

TP is the red line, since you are starting at 2,000 RPM's, I had to look where you mashed the throttle at start, when it spikes, I marked it.

Run 2 (pictured) was 7.270 seconds, run 3 was 7.11.
You've still got me by a three tenths of a second, nothing to worry about there Jakee.
You're safe for at least a month

 

[Fredness]

Are you guys asking to see my numbers with the graphs? If so, I'll go back and edit my posts to include the math...

 

[aldive]

Please.

 

[jah81592]

Wow...

"8RWHP max" is peak for the vast majority of tunes, if you tune for peak HP.
I've shown more than a 25hp increase at different RPM's with a peak increase of 4HP. This is the point of this thread, to break up some of these paradigms and misconceptions. ).

I have told people this over and over in these forums, they believe if they get xxxhp at 5000+ rpm that they have an excellent tune. Which is quite the contrary. I will eat 10hp at peak to gain more in the "meat" of the range where the engine will live most of the time. I will guarentee them everytime that average hp is more important than peak. But this is where dynos have become a problem. Everyone wants to beat on thier chest and say I've got xxxhp and fail to realize about the average hp. Dyno's are excellent tools but too many people try to guage thier performance off thier #'s only to be dissapointed when they go to the track to have the guy with less hp suck the doors off thier ride. This is the sole reason for my rationalization behind street tuning. Dyno's cant load like the vehicle running down the road.