New member!...old problem!...immobilisers!

[ferrett65]

Hi there...hoping someone can shed some light. Read many posts re immobilising immobilisers here....very confused!
car: 1997 Ford Explorer 4ltr automatic using (one button FW Bosch keyless remote fobs) Had the car 13 years. 'This on an R plate but the older styling (number plate to the side)

Problem: was working fine. Few weeks ago intermittent problem pressing the button to open door which got worse till wouldn't work anymore. AA took to Hendys 2 weeks ago. Brought 2 new fobs got code from US, tried to reprogramme.

Real problem: Hendy's say the PATS module can't be working as will not hold the code (will start up once everytime though) and want £1300 for new module? Hmmmm?

I asked for them to take out/disarm the immobiliser but they said they "couldn't"?
Other things l asked them to look at was my cigarette lighters keep blowing mini fuses and A/C and blower blow but run hot!?????? Asked Henry's if connected and to check fuses said they seemed fine?

Question: Are they being wholly truthful?! Really need some sound advice...plus can anyone recommend anyone who works in Hampshire area that l can speak to/employee with specific expertise please!?

Hope someone can help!

 

[Rick]

I moved your thread to our Stock 1995-2001 subforum. Hopefully one of our members will have an answer for you.

Welcome to the forum

 

[bobflood]

My '97 Eddie Bauer does not have PATS; which is the anti theft system that uses a sensor on the ignition switch and a "chipped" key. I don't think that Explorers in US got PATS until '99 - don't know about export models.

The immobilizer in mine works thru the Remote Access Personality (RAP) module; it disables the starter and sounds the horn/flashes the lights when activated. The RAP also manages the keyless entry, door keypad, etc.

Simple things first - are you sure the battery in your remote is still OK??

Based on the online schematic I use: As a "field expedient" solution, you might be able to remove the anti-theft relay and jumper together terminals 3 and 4 in the socket. This should remove the ability of the anti-theft to kill the starter circuit. Not sure what effect if any this would have on the lightsflashing/horn sounding - if yours does that.

Good luck.

 

[rb142]

Trying to jumper hardware is a waste of effort. If you have PATS, you can't disable it with hardware. If PATS is not satisfied on startup, the PCM shuts down. There is no drive to the ignition or the fuel injectors. It doesn't matter what you do to your starter relay, you aren't going anywhere.

The only real option is to figure out what the system is unhappy about and fix it. The line about the module not holding memory sounds like a bogus answer from a mechanic who doesn't want to be bothered to troubleshoot this problem. 1300 pounds sounds like a [very high] price to replace the PCM ... which would almost surely not fix the problem anyway. If a module is bad, it is likely the RCM, which is much less expensive. You could probably find a matching replacement from a scrap yard.

Do you have the same problem with a different key?

BTW... You might want to figure out what is wrong with the lighter socket problem first. If there is an electrical gremlin going on in there, you never know whether it might somehow be affecting other circuits, like the anti-theft.

 

[CDW6212R]

The PATS in the USA began in 1998 Explorers etc. The 97 shouldn't have it, and the key should have a smaller head. The PATS keys have a chip in them.

The PATS modules when they began will store eight key codes, added in order from zero. All codes must be erased to begin over(if you have less than two keys working). When the module is erased of the codes, any PATS key will work to start the vehicle. After that the first key(code) is required to be able to add another key. Then as people are used to, two of the existing keys coded in memory must be used to add another.

If you do have PATS, begin by carefully checking the key code receiver, mounted on the ignition key cylinder. That is very fragile, and can easily be broken and not attached well enough. If that comes loose, then it will no longer receive any key codes, thus the PATS module will shut down the fuel etc.

 

[ferrett65]

Thanks for that! I'm new to forums anyway let alone talking technical on forums! I managed to get this information from the garage (immobiliser unit now lying in the boot of my car)! Just wanted to point out it is an early 1997 Explorer on an R plate/petrol/4 ltr Auto/5 and is built for the European market...(I'm in the UK)

Immobiliser is a Bosch ECU F005 BD 0021 - Model VIM 171 - 12v Australia - Serial No. 6711 9033 74 Serial No 6711903374 - Ford Part F77F 14B 207-AA

I have 2 old/worn out, one button Bosch keyless remote fobs (plus 2 x shiny new ones) that used to open doors and set alarms and turn the engine management light on to start it! and one small-headed key that when alarms deactivated can open the door and turn over the ignition. When alarm goes off the hazard lights blink and the horn sounds!
Hope this will identify/clarifies what system I have and whether it can be bypassed/taken out or repaired?...Any more ideas?...Please keep posting as i'm all out!

 

[rb142]

The service documentation shows the UK Explorer being the same as the North America version for that year. It shows the normal RAP module as the system in there.

Your description sounds different, and makes me wonder whether your system is an aftermarket addition.

 

[bobflood]

The "small headed" key means no chip - which means it's not equipped with PATS. That is a good thing! 1998 was the first owner's manual with DIY instructions to reprogram remotes; 1997 and earlier said "take to dealer."

I agree with rb142 - it sounds like this might be an aftermarket remote/alarm system - maybe a dealer add-on in the UK? Try pumping some of those part numbers into Mr. Google and see what he tells you - couldn't hurt and you might get lucky.

Here is a great source for online wiring diagrams that also might help:
Auto - Online Repair Info
http://search.ebscohost.com/
Login ID: rrcc
Login PW: rebsco
Select: Auto Repair Reference Center
Fill in: Find Your Vehicle
Follow prompts down to Wiring Diagrams.

I don't know who "Heady's" is, but you might try looking for a shop that specializes in aftermarket alarm systems. Most mechanic shops don't have the skill sets to chase obscure/difficult alarm issues. There is a UK subforum here that might have some ideas. Good luck.

Edit: Here is part of a post from a UK guy (RR2003) on this forum about a month ago:

"Many thanks for your answer. Actually I have already the wiring diagram for the US version of the explorer, but my problem is that this part of the diagram (immobiliser) is one of the few differences between the US and Europe versions.

The immobiliser and Fobs in the US were different and had different connectors. (RAP module and 3 buttons fobs in the US, Bosch VIM module and single button fobs in europe) For what I know, the Haynes and chilton manuals do not cover the european version of the explorers so they might not be helpful either...

What i would definitely need is the wiring diagram of a Euro spec explorer 1998... "

 

[yabbadabbagoo]

Re post

Sorry to but in on this thread but I have the same problem my car was laid up for a while, the old fob got damaged beyond repair. I got another fob from dare I say ebay. There is a lot of talk here about PATS ? can any body advise ( please see picture ) weather my car has PATS or not by looking at the key and the fob. My car was driving perfectly until it was laid up. Now everything works on the car except the remote central locking and of course the engine wont start Desperately needing help please. Aslo I have included some resetting info the ford dealer gave me to reset fob however it doesnt seem to work again desperate for any advice Cheers NIgel.

Program Remote Fob Bosch


Key position 2 for 10 minutes then position 1
Then back to position 2 for 10 minutes then position 1
Then back to position 2 for 10 minutes then position 1

After 3 times Led ( red light ) will stay on for 3 seconds.
Then take key out, and within 10 seconds you must turn key
Position 1
Then position 2
Back position 1
Then off
Then position 1
Then off.
All within 10 seconds

 

[bobflood]

That key looks to be the same size as my '97 key, so I would vote for no PATS. Put a new battery in the new fob to eliminate that as an issue. Good luck!

 

[yabbadabbagoo]

That key looks to be the same size as my '97 key, so I would vote for no PATS. Put a new battery in the new fob to eliminate that as an issue. Good luck!

Thanks mate we have put a new battery in the fob, and we seem to have had a bit of success today the alarm has stopped, it hazard lights have stopped and everything except the central locking and the engine now work. Does it sound like the link between the fob and the alarm to you is broken

 

[rb142]

Those small-head keys don't have the chip in them, so you definitely don't have PATS.

 

[yabbadabbagoo]

Those small-head keys don't have the chip in them, so you definitely don't have PATS.

Thanks rb, on that basis do those resetting instructions mean anything to you, or do you have any other sugestions as to how we can get over the problem. Do you also know if the alarm can be removed or is it linked directly to the engine management unit making it very difficult to remove. Thanks Nigel.

 

[CDW6212R]

Try to reset it by taking a battery cable off for 5-10 minutes. Maybe the remote not working properly caused the alarm to disable things hard, until a reset of some kind.

 

[rb142]

Thanks rb, on that basis do those resetting instructions mean anything to you, or do you have any other sugestions as to how we can get over the problem. Do you also know if the alarm can be removed or is it linked directly to the engine management unit making it very difficult to remove. Thanks Nigel.

I'm afraid I can't help much with the Bosch immobilizer system. I haven't seen one and I don't have any info about one. Try the instructions above and see if it works (what do you have to lose?). Because the system is an add-on, I would think it may not be too difficult to remove it entirely (i.e. because it isn't tied into PATS or something internal). I would start by trying to find wiring diagrams to see how the system connects. As I mentioned, the manuals I looked in showed the UK vehicles in that year using the NA system, which is obviously not the case here. Maybe there are some UK members that can chime in with more info.

 

[yabbadabbagoo]

I'm afraid I can't help much with the Bosch immobilizer system. I haven't seen one and I don't have any info about one. Try the instructions above and see if it works (what do you have to lose?). Because the system is an add-on, I would think it may not be too difficult to remove it entirely (i.e. because it isn't tied into PATS or something internal). I would start by trying to find wiring diagrams to see how the system connects. As I mentioned, the manuals I looked in showed the UK vehicles in that year using the NA system, which is obviously not the case here. Maybe there are some UK members that can chime in with more info.

Thanks for the help mate