Newly Installed KKM....Questions

[Ross-N-Chicago]

A member ran a temp experiment to find out how much hot air is in the engine and he concluded once you are moving the engine air is just as cool as outside. Obviously its quite hot in stop and go. He ran some temp gauges in a couple of spots under the hood and kept checking the readings. Try a search, I have no idea where I read it.

 

[diablo5969]

Really? That's suprising. Oh well. In Atlanta pretty much everything is stop and go driving (either that or it's going 85), so that's still a major problem that I at least have to contend with. And if I did a heat shield kind of thing, then I would feel more mechanically inclined. And that's always a good thing.

 

[Robert]

I did the testing, more to find out the difference between my stock air-box and my K&N FIPK. What I found was that at speeds above 10 MPH my stock air-box and FIPK were within a couple of degrees of each other. When stopping the FIPK heated up quicker, however if I sat long enough the stock air-box would catch up. I have the silencer removed from my stock air-box though and I took it off so long ago that I can't remember if it stuck through the front of the vehicle. As it stands now, it is a few inches away from the passenger headlight. I don't have the data in front of me but from what I remember, once I got moving both setups ran about 8-10 degrees above the reading on my overhead console. If I stopped for 5 minutes my FIPK would get up by about 30 degrees. My stock air-box only went up by 15. After 10 minutes my FIPK was about 50 degrees higher than outside air temperature, whereas my stock air-box was 43 above outside air temperature. I ran these tests a couple of months ago when we were running in the upper 80s to low 90s. Both setups quickly dropped back down to upper 90s within a few seconds of driving. At highway speeds both were within a couple of degrees as my outside thermometer.

 

[diablo5969]

Really? That's interesting to know. Even moving at speed, I still would've expected that it'd be a lot warmer in the engine. Oh well. I guess the air really zips through there. How exactly did you perform these tests? I was trying to figure that out. Did you have like electronic thermostats relaying into the car, or like thermostats that recorded the temperature and then you checked after? I was thinking about that

 

[Robert]

I used my OBD-II scanner to monitor the Intake Air Temperature sensor. My IAT, along with my overhead console thermometer provided the necessary readings. I used a NIST certified Hart Scientific thermometer from work to verify the accuracy of my console thermometer and my IAT. Both agreed to within 1 degree when they were at ambient conditions.

 

[diablo5969]

I don't know what most of that stuff is. But it's enough to convince me that performed these tests scientifically and professionally.

 

[Robert]

The company I work for manufactures flow meters (turbine, exhaust, ultra-sonic, etc) and performs NIST (National Institute of Standards Technology) traceable calibrations on many different flow devices. I have access to a broad range of flow and temperature measurement equipment.

One of these days I want to fashion some kind of mounting hardware to connect my intake hose to our Bell Prover (air-flow calibrator) and see how much air flows through my stock air-box versus my FIPK.

 

[X24]

Does anyone with the KKM notice a high pitched whistle when you step on the gas a certain amount? If I am bearly pressing on the pedal I dont hear it but if I press it a little further I do... then a little further and it goes away. Is this just due to the amount of air that is being pulled in or is there a small leak somewhere?

 

[Fusion213]

Yeah, I get that noise on mine. Kind of sounds like a turbocharger
I think it makes that noise because the air is rushing past the wire mesh that surrounds the filter element.

 

[MikeP]

98Fordx24
With regards to the KKM metal brackets, I bent and shaped them until I got the two brackets to hold the KKM filter assembly in place- and so far they have not sagged. I agree that the brackets do not seem to be all that well designed.
Robert
Nice work on those air temp measurements. It is great to have all those instruments available to use. Do you think anyone will ever market an OBD type instrument one can mount sort of permanently in or under the dash so one can monitor the many sensors? I heard a University of Washinton (Seattle) engineering student ask a Ford Executive a question about this and the Ford Executive said they considered it but decided not to make it available (as I recall).
Mike with 91 XLT4x4 in Seattle.

 

[diablo5969]

Robert: Some guys get all the luck... Anyway, that would be another cool measurement to have, the one of how much air goes through.

98Ford: I don't have a whistle at all. Mines more of a throaty roar coming from the engine compartment. It sounds really badass. Not like a little wimpy whistle.

 

[X24]

diablo:
well mine also sounds good. but it is just that certain point in the gas pedal that it whistles. yours might not do that because it is in a different place under the hood.

mikep:
what did you make the brackets out of? i was looking at mine and there is really no good place to attach anything to. i'll have to drill a hole or two in the metal plate for the stock airbox and attach something to that.

 

[MikeP]

98Fordx24
With regards to the brackets, I used the supplied brackets and bent them to fit differently than KKM intended them to be used. If you look at the photo of the KKM installed assembly at
http://www.explorer4x4.com/kkmbracket.jpg
it appears the brackets there are more-or-less installed so the brackets are vertical. I arranged the brackets more in an "A-Frame" or triangular manner - with the left-hand bracket (nearest the front wheel) fastened down with a bolt which goes through to the wheel well (I think this is suggested in that KKM installation tips writeup) and needed a longer bolt for that. For the bracket nearest the engine, I bolted it down to the old or stock filter plate - which is somewhat flimsy - but it appears to be holding OK. I have a 91XLT so I would guess it is different from your newer 98. I was thinking of replacing those KKM supplied brackets - but they seem to be working OK.
By the way, I am looking for a "sock" or some sort of prefilter to wrap around the KKM filter to make it easier to clean off leaves, thistles, bugs, etc which will get collected on the outside of the KKM filter (not a problem in the winter). Anyone have an idea of what to use for this? Mike in Seattle

 

[RTStork]

Originally posted by MikeP
I am looking for a "sock" or some sort of prefilter to wrap around the KKM filter to make it easier to clean off leaves, thistles, bugs, etc which will get collected on the outside of the KKM filter (not a problem in the winter). Anyone have an idea of what to use for this? Mike in Seattle.

Try using a piece of panty-hose. I know it sounds dumb, but it works.

 

[Robert]

MikeP - I have no idea whether or not any manufacturers are considering one, but it would not be hard to do. The technology is already there. A couple of downsides to it though would be that by the time the made on, they might as well as gone ahead and made a complete OBD-II scanner therefore the costs would be the same. Also, a lot of OBD-II connectors are located under the steering wheel. Not many people would put up with a cable coming out from under their steering wheel to a display mounted somewhere else. It is fine for troubleshooting, but I wouldn't want a cable there full time.

diablo5969 - I haven't quite figured out how to go about testing my FIPK yet. My concern is that how do I know when I can't flow any more air through it? The air-stand that I would use will flow up to about 1100 ACFM. A 4.0L flows a maximum of about 400 ACFM. I am concerned that once I hit the maximum amount of flow that will go through the K&N, it may suck in upon itself or damage it in some other way. I could test it to determine the pressure drop across the filter at various flow rates compared to the stock air-box. Right now we are in the middle of some tests for some equipment we have to ship by March, so I doubt if I can get to the equipment before then.

 

[diablo5969]

Originally posted by 98FordX24
diablo:
well mine also sounds good. but it is just that certain point in the gas pedal that it whistles. yours might not do that because it is in a different place under the hood.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend you or anything, it was just a joke. Mine is in pretty much the same place under the hood as the one in that pic someone posted. Except, I was putting it in with my friend, and we did find one problem. When we followed the instructions exactly, we had to bend the air pipe (I don't know what it's called, but that black plastic tube that says "Caution: Fan") to fit it the filter, and at first we thought it worked ok. But then after driving it around for a while, we realized there was a weird sound coming from the engine, and when we checked we realized that the air tube was resting on the fan, and the fan was wearing at the air tube. What we did was go to Ace Hardware and pick up some metal ducts and fit them between the filter and the air tube, so that both stayed where they were supposed to, and they had a little custom metal air pipe setup between them. After we did that the noise stopped. I don't know if that helps you any or not, but that's my experience.

Originally posted by Robert
diablo5969 - I haven't quite figured out how to go about testing my FIPK yet. My concern is that how do I know when I can't flow any more air through it? The air-stand that I would use will flow up to about 1100 ACFM. A 4.0L flows a maximum of about 400 ACFM. I am concerned that once I hit the maximum amount of flow that will go through the K&N, it may suck in upon itself or damage it in some other way. I could test it to determine the pressure drop across the filter at various flow rates compared to the stock air-box. Right now we are in the middle of some tests for some equipment we have to ship by March, so I doubt if I can get to the equipment before then.

Damage would be bad. I don't know. Maybe some ideas will pop up between now and March when you're done performing the other tests.