not bashing anyone, in response to jeep-ex. comparo

[Stephen]

Oh thats one more thing, you want a car simple, the new Accord can come simple, for around 22k, with a 240hp V6, that'll move ya down the road

 

[Majisto]

Where is this that it is so expensive? That's ridiculous. Why not buy a year old Taurus with all of those options for under 20 grand? It makes no sense to buy a new car these days. Only thing making them even considerable is 0% Financing, but that won't last long.

I still think the Accord is ugly. The older design is much prettier, and the Camry is a freakin' rip-off of the Taurus!! I have a picture that I will up-load to show you the dang thieves at Toyota who stole the back design of the Taurus. It pisses me off to no end, and will prevent me from ever buying a Japanese car, because of the fact that Japanese can't think up anything on their own...

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by Stephen
Oh thats one more thing, you want a car simple, the new Accord can come simple, for around 22k, with a 240hp V6, that'll move ya down the road

Honda V-6s suck, period. Explain how when I raced my friend's 200 HP V-6 Accord, I beat him, please? Oh that's right, since we shut-down at 60, I didn't give VTEC enough time to work its "magic"

 

[Stephen]

And the new engine is on the 10 best engines list.

Gee, someone might thing I'm a salesman if I keep talking like this

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by Stephen
And the new engine is on the 10 best engines list.

Gee, someone might thing I'm a salesman if I keep talking like this

Why does that matter? It's real-world that matters, not numbers If we always went by numbers, everything would be boring. VTEC was not designed for a V-6 and Honda is stupid for putting it on those engines. I have been in Honda V-6s and they are NOT fast. Fast for a sedan, yes. 200 Hp fast? No.

 

[Majisto]

Ok here is the picture. Dead Link Removed

Note : The Taurus design was began in 2000, and this Camary design is 2002. You tell me Toyota didn't copy that design straight from the Taurus

 

[Stephen]

I personally don't like the styling of the new Accord either, I think its rather odd, but we're hitting a weak point in automotive styling right now anyways, so we have to be ready to embrace new ideas. Its hard for me too sometimes trust me lol.

As far as the Japanese "stealing" things from other carmakers, I hear that a lot. Thats one of the things that the Japanese are great at, they are fantastic at taking aspects of their competitors vehicles and turning them around, making them better, and marketing them as they're own. Its just business, and the Japanese business out the car industry more than any other country does. Not a bad thing, the consumer gets a better product, its just not always unique.

One thing you do have to say for the Accord though, its new, its unique, and it doesnt borrow anything from anyone and this is why it interests me so.

The problem is, people like you and I are used to the time when price won out over everything, thats just not so anymore. Its important yes, but buyers, even buyers as far down as economy car level are willing and ready to pay more to get more car. This is evident by the fact that the Camry is the top seller in this market even though its the most expensive, the Lexus ES300 is the top selling entry luxury car, its the most expensive in its class.

The times they are a changin. Thats what I was trying to get across.

 

[Stephen]

Oh and also, go drive the new Accord, the new 240hp V6 is fast

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by Majisto
Why does that matter? It's real-world that matters, not numbers If we always went by numbers, everything would be boring. VTEC was not designed for a V-6 and Honda is stupid for putting it on those engines. I have been in Honda V-6s and they are NOT fast. Fast for a sedan, yes. 200 Hp fast? No.

I agree, the vtec V6 is not fast at all, I driven a couple and our 5.0 Mounty has no trouble staying neck to neck with my friends V6 Accord and a few others I've raced. Plus it sounds like a larger version of their 4 cylinder engines.

All the Tauress's I've been in are pretty quick and definitley more torquey, and faster then the V6 Camery's I've been in also.

Plus the Duratec engine sounds a lot more better, and definitley more Sporty then either one. If you read almost all the reviews they all almost say the same thing, "engine sounds like it was made for a sports car instead of a sedan".

The new Accord has 240hp but does not feel like it b/c it only gained a few more ft-lbs of torque, I think it peaks at 212 now. It'll pull about a 6.5 second time to 60 with a manual and good driver but it does not feel like it at all. The new Tauress will use a 3.5 version of the Duratec with about 250hp and around 230-240ftlbs of torque.

 

[Majisto]

I'd rather the Maxima. I fell in love with the VQ engine's mix of strong low-end torque, and high-end horsepower. That is a Japanese car I would own. I can't say as much for Nissan's reliability, but there's something about Hodna that bugs me, and Toyota will always sting me for that copying.

I have a friend with an Accord who has about 50K miles on it, and has had more problems on it than this 80K mile Explorer. It stalled on us once randomly in the middle of an intersection (That was scary!). It's an automatic btw. The alignment is out, the power window system stopped working after a few drops of water hit the door while we were getting into the car and it was raining (I guess this caused it ) and numerous other oddities.

Suffice to say, Honda is not the king of reliability anymore. Nobody is. I still don't see why navigation systems and DVD players are so important in cars. I can't stand distractions in my car. Guess i'm old-fashioned...*sighs*

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by SaleenEXP
I agree, the vtec V6 is not fast at all, I driven a couple and our 5.0 Mounty has no trouble staying neck to neck with my friends V6 Accord and a few others I've raced. Plus it sounds like a larger version of their 4 cylinder engines.

All the Tauress's I've been in are pretty quick and definitley more torquey, and faster then the V6 Camery's I've been in also.

Plus the Duratec engine sounds a lot more better, and definitley more Sporty then either one. If you read almost all the reviews they all almost say the same thing, "engine sounds like it was made for a sports car instead of a sedan".

The new Accord has 240hp but does not feel like it b/c it only gained a few more ft-lbs of torque, I think it peaks at 212 now. The new Tauress will use a 3.5 version of the Duratec with about 250hp and around 230-240ftlbs of torque.

Ok the Taurus has two engines. 155 HP Vulcan engine which I have, and 200 HP Duratec engine that is going to replace the old OHV Vulcan. The Duratec engine was partially designed with Porsche, and hence the race-car sound and the secondary intake runners it has, ala Taurus SHO. The Duartec is an incredibly smooth engine, and is a high breather like its Japanese competitors, but it has enough torque to launch the little Taurus fairly quickly. Watch this engine very closely, and I gurantee you that it will be one of the best engine ever made. The Mazda 6 has a 220 Horespower Duratec, and the Escape has the Duratec too. Not to mention the Contour and Cougar with the 3.0's smaller cousin, the 2.5.

The Accord V-6 gains almost no torque, because if I remember corretly all they did was mess with exhaust and installed higher-flowing heads. This gives horespower, not torque. The little Honda needs torque, not horsepower. It can already rev to infinity to get its power out, but it needs something to help it along.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by Majisto
I'd rather the Maxima. I fell in love with the VQ engine's mix of strong low-end torque, and high-end horsepower.

excellent engines. A girl I'm friends with at college has an Infinitey G35 Coupe with a manual (yes, a girl driving a manual sports car, hehe), wow, that car is very fast and has a ton of torque at any rpm and sounds amazing, it will pin your azz to the seat. Long live the VQ engine.

edit- Maijesto, when I said all Tauress's, I meant I've only driven the duratec ones, cause I know the Vulcan is a dog.

 

[Majisto]

Originally posted by SaleenEXP
excellent engines. A girl I'm friends with at college has an Infinitey G35 Coupe with a manual (yes, a girl driving a manual sports car, hehe), wow, that car is very fast and has a ton of torque at any rpm and sounds amazing, it will pin your azz to the seat. Long live the VQ engine.

Heh those things will haul ass. Unlike the Maxima, it has RWD and is a light little bugger. That is the perfect formula for speed there RWD + Light weight + Torque/Revvy V-6 = *BIG GRIN*

 

[Stephen]

The Maxima is a very good car too, but for some reason it just hasn't been able to be competitive, not for lack of merit, its just not. As for your friend's Accord, every carmaker has their foibles, but if you look at the JD Power IQS ratings, you'll see the Camry and Accord are ranked much higher than the Taurus, as well as in the long term dependability studies. There's no question that in the big picture, less Camrys and Accords are in the shop than Tauruses.

As for the DVD Navigation systems, when I bought my Lexus in 1998 I drove one with the nav, Lexus' first, had no interest in it, so I didnt get it. After driving the new ones now, I wouldn't buy another car without one. Its so convenient, you're sitting in traffic wondering, will that exit get me home? Well hit the home button and bam, the nav system computes a course from your exact position. No more fumbling with maps, no more stupid mapquest printouts to annoy you when driving they're the way of the future.

As for the DVD entertainment systems, ever been on a roadtrip with two 5 year olds? Don't, unless you have a DVD entertainment system

Its the way of the future, these new niceties from luxury cars are starting to trickle down to mainstream vehicles, and if Ford doesn't up their offering in the Taurus, its going to be wounded forever.

In order to remain competitive, you MUST be open to change. Ford has trouble with that, as does GM.

 

[Stephen]

Oh I love the new G35, especially the coupe. If you ask me thats the only competitive car Infiniti offers, have to wait and drive the new M45 though.

 

[Majisto]

Learn the roads instead of relying on technology Unless you're driving in a new city for the first time, get to know the roads and use the world's most powerful computer in the world, your brain

I will never let technology answer questions for me. I am even against electronic throttle/braking/steering systems which has scared me away from the new Maxima and Accord. I like direct linkage so that when it breaks, I can fix it easily, and not worry about electrical problems. Again, I am old-fashioned... I don't even think putting kids in front of a DVD system is a good idea. Maybe playing 20 questions and all sorts of family games is not important anymore...

 

[Stephen]

Okay, I tracked down some stats, but I'm still missing the new Accord.

The current Taurus Duratec V6 with 200hp and 200lb/ft of torque will do 0-60 in 8.9 seconds with a 1/4 mile of 18.1. The Camry which has 192 hp and 209 lb/ft will do 0-60 in 8.2 seconds and a 1/4 in 16.5 seconds. I'll post the new Accord when I find it.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by Majisto
The Duratec engine was partially designed with Porsche, and hence the race-car sound and the secondary intake runners it has, ala Taurus SHO.

damn, I should have know about that scince I know a lot about Porsche's and love their cars. I don't doubt it considering how good the duratec sounds when it gets high in the rpms, almost a little like the boxer 6 from Porsche..hmmmmmm.

also, don't know why I didn't post this before but..., my moms friend let me drive his modded Ruf Turbo this past Saturday - WITH HIM IN THE CAR, heh - , I've driven with him a lot and know how insanely fast and powerful it is, but this was the 1st time I drove it, pretty f'n scarry. I've never driven a car that light that makes about 700rwhp and tq (it's awd though). I had to keep watching the rpms cause the engine rev's so fast that you have to anticipate when to shift cause it gets to redline in the blink of an eye. I only got up to about 80 scince this was on city streets that had barely any traffic late at night. You have to have like a death grip on that shifter cause it throws you into the seat and you can't even flinch or move. Gotta love Porsche reliabilty, two years of hard azz driving and no problems at all.

 

[Majisto]

Btw, there are less Camrys and Accords because there are fewer of them on the road Yes I will give TOYota some credit, I have a friend with a 150K mile Camry and the suspension is still fairly decent for its age, and the tranny is fairly smooth. The engine is a pile, and everything else sucks, but it doesn't rattle at least Well, except for the loose shock on the passenger rear area. I'm just waiting for that to fall off The chassis on the Camry is incredibly solid, but is not setup at all for sport in any way. The Taurus and Accord at least try to be sporty.

 

[SaleenEXP]

Originally posted by Stephen
Okay, I tracked down some stats, but I'm still missing the new Accord.

The current Taurus Duratec V6 with 200hp and 200lb/ft of torque will do 0-60 in 8.9 seconds with a 1/4 mile of 18.1. The Camry which has 192 hp and 209 lb/ft will do 0-60 in 8.2 seconds and a 1/4 in 16.5 seconds. I'll post the new Accord when I find it.

that was a gimp Tauress as I've saw that time also, I clocked our rental on g-tec at 7.9-8.1 seconds with the quarter down in the very low 16's, and a 15.9 with a brake-torque launch (which isn't very good on fwd cars so.....)