Not running well and needs help before it gets traded for a TOY!

[KF6NFW]

I have a 92 Explorer.
It was going through plugs every couple months or so was thought. I never saw enough wear on them to suggest they failed, but each time they were replaced the problems went away.
Now I have replaced the plugs, no change truck runs like it i s down a cylinder or two. Changed coil pack/distributor, no change.

I get no CEL, and I know that dont mean much. I need to get codes if any off it. Being disabled makes it difficult to get in and work though so I am slow with it.

asides from the obvious is it possible, or likely the ECU/ECM would have faile din this. It was a very rapid decent into this condidtion this last time. as in I changed plugs and all was well, drove for 3 days, each day was a slight worsening of running condition. parked it and the next morning it acts like it hasnt been maintained in years.

I will be checking and cleaning the TPS, IAC, and MAF, but am concerned about the ECU.
and while on the topic, where the hell is the ECU on this thing?

 

[Wolfie_85]

Behind the kick panel on the passenger side.

 

[KF6NFW]

Thank you for the location.

I have since pulled codes, but they dont make much sense to me, as it indicates nearly every sensor has an issue, including a bad PCM.

I have since gone through tested IAC, it reads 10.6 well within and almost dead on middle of the road specs of 7-13.

disconnecting MAF does not cause any change either, outside of idle drops a little but underlying issues do not appear to go away or change, still a very rough idle.

I disconnected the TPS, but dont recall if I tested it, I know truck was running when I disconnected it, and did not appear to make any change as well.

CEL gave multiple codes. when requested. I believe I read them correctly.
I got 21, 15, 72, 32.

I will be taking a code reader to it to be sure I read codes correctly, but a second set of eyes also got these codes while helping me without a prompt of what I got.

any suggestions.
this is the daily driver , and I go oncall this next week for fire calls.

 

[Wolfie_85]

You will get CM codes if you disconnected these sensors while the vehicle was running. IAC, MAF, all that will throw a code and put it in the history when you pull codes. Look these codes up (there is a sticky that gives you a list, the one about pulling codes using the "paperclip method").

I'm betting these are the majority of the codes you are seeing. Write them all down, rule out the codes related to the stuff you disconnected (for now), disconnect the battery for 10 minutes to clear the codes, then fire it back up, go for a short ride (if you can) and see what codes came back.

If you have an ICM issue, it will NOT throw a code. The ICM is behind the battery. What plugs did you use? Check the connector to the PCM (computer behind kick panel mentioned earler) for corrosion). ICM too, while you're at it.

 

[Centaurious]

You don't say that you replaced the plug wires but I will assume you have already done so.

Clean or have cleaned both ends of the positive and negative battery cables and their connection points. Low voltage / bad grounds are the first thing to eliminate when chasing electrical problems.

Unplugging things with the key on or the engine running will cause error codes. Clear the memory then drive the truck till it is up to temperature then read the codes again to see if there are any immediate faults. you may need to drive longer for others to show up. Remember to state if they are KOEO, CM, or KOER codes... It helps the diagnosis.


This is my resource for codes;

http://www.thorssell.net/hbook/eectest.html

 

[vq5speed]

What exactly is the problem. What is the motor doing try to give us a more detail of the symptoms.

 

[KF6NFW]

Ok to help clarify a little more. Yes I did disconect items while running, and anticipated codes as a result. Of course I thought of this after I disconeccted the MAF, so I did a reset of system by the paperclip method instructions I found a sticky to.

after running it for a bit, anout 20 minutes idle and 10 or so minutes driving or about as far as 10 minutes would let me drive 2 miles!

The plug wires have been replaced as well.

the truck acts as if a cylinder is down, misfires and I smell the fuel dump!

We have no indication of mechanical failure, either through compression or visual inspection. oil and water remain separate as should be.

possible head gasket leak, not known when had covers off last! Lady I bought the truck from had it for about 7-8 yrs no serious maintenance, before that it was owned by her mother, who used it once in a while to pull the horses around the property.

electrical is up to par for the time being, will be getting a major over haul soon to accommodate communication equipment a little better but sufficient for the job at present. Grounds are good!

this presented itself over the course of a year apparently that every couple months a plug or two would need to be replaced to make her run again, and all seemed well for another 2-3 months, or about 2-2.5K miles. I bought it in Jan this year had oil and lube done at shop with plugs and wires within first week of driving it. No reports or signs of bad plugs, but runs better with new plugs.
Since then I have had to replace the plugs twice and it seems to degrade in performance rather quickly. ove rthe course of a month or so now and then finally I went and replaced the coil pack and plugs etc, and no difference.

Upon testing, I have not found any faulty sensors by testing according to directions, but faults seem to be just throwing out of this thing. started with a code 11, 22, 21, 15, 72, 32. That is all the codes it throws. I have been down today because over did it yesterday, so will likely put code reader on it tomorrow as I will have to limp it to a shop. I just want to be sure those are the codes I get versus what I think I know from the blinking light. I have never liked that method!

 

[KF6NFW]

I never considered the ICM. Is there a way to test, or is this blond faith. I have reason to believe that before EEC, as i have had this happen in another Ford of mine about 10yrs ago.

 

[FR-425]

I'm pretty sure you are not reading the codes correctly.

There is no code 22 for this PCM as there is no MAP sensor, no code 32 either that is for pre 1989 truck only.

If you do have a code 15 then the PCM is fried.

etc. etc.

You might want to use a scan tool on this one to verify whether the computer is toast before you spend any more time and money.

 

[Wolfie_85]

You can get an ICM cheap at a pull-yer-own yard, a PCM, too, for that matter. Same goes for most parts. My Ex has a ton of stuff from the salvage yard.

I'm with FR-425 on this. Scan tool before going crazy throwing money at it.

 

[acschilling]

"Lube" shops don't understand the fickle, tender nature of our first gens. Find someone you local you can trust to help you get to the problem. I would also suggest sticking with as many Motorcraft parts you can; also those with lifetime warranties.

How many miles does it have? Have you ever touched anything in the fuel or evap system? Many of those components won't show a CEL. Could also have a look at your driveline for drag. Not a lot of CELs there either; nor will it initially make much noise or vibration.

 

[KF6NFW]

Lube shop was for sake of time, not a real inspection. I volunteer with the Red Cross, and am part of a disaster team. Every couple weeks I am on call for fire calls, disasters, etc. well in this case I was about to go on call in a day and needed it running that night so I took to Midas. Not something I normally do, but was a new to me truck and I didn't have a lot of time to screw with it.

I have done all the work myself since then in Jan this year. I agree though a lube shop is not the place to go normally.

I always go with MOTOCRAFT when possible, and all warranties when possible, at least on reasonable items.

No I have not touched anything on this truck. this has been a nickle and dime project for the last few months, mostly nickles anyways, as it really hasnt had any issues outside of this, so I have been slowly chasing problems and fixing them as they arise. this one just crept up and grabbed me before I was really able to figure it out.

I have to admit it has been about 15-20 years since I honestly engaged in working on a auto outside of the typical maintenance. But I fell in love with this truck when the wife said she wanted to buy it from the neighbor. Since then, I have spent a few hours going through some of the easier aspects of vehicle maintenance such as the electrical and cosmetics, not that this has any damage visible!

The truck has just under 180K miles on it. I asked the neighbor couple days ago what he and she had done to it for maintenance over the years. What a good laugh he got out of the question, I still dont know what I said so funny! Anyways the result was that they had the truck for about 8 years. In that time they put gas oil and water in as needed! Spark plugs only in the last year.
they never replaced fuel filters air filters or anything else for that matter.
Since I got the truck, I have replaced door hinge pins, Lots of Fun! and the rest is just trying to get on the maintenance of it under the hood.

I will be doing a radiator flush in a week or so, but need to get it running first again.


I can say that I drove the truck to Sacramento and back to Seattle a month ago and it did well with a minor misfire towards end of trip. i blew top radiator hose about 90 miles outside of where I was going, and had to gorilla tape it together to get to town to get it repaired. $20 and ten minutes and I was back on the road. The next afternoon, I smoked a brake caliper on front right.

I know seems like a bunch of gibberish to some, but that is a quick and fairly thorough rundown of the trucks history as I know it!

 

[vq5speed]

Well what I found 21 is ECT the engine coolant temp sensor. This sensor really has a big effect on how the motor runs. It tells the PCM what the engine temp is so it can adjust the fuel. I would replace this sensor could clear up a lot of things. Now the 22 MAP sensor from what I can find 91X's had them i'm not sure about 92's but this thread should help you locate it
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241541
32 says its EGR I'm not sure either if 92 had EGR I know my 91 doesn't use EGR. Then 72 is MAF sensor.

 

[KF6NFW]

Ok Iam about to gop out and do more to this thing, but in the meantime, where is the ICM located on this truck as well. I suspect near the battery, on the side wall

 

[natenkiki2004]

Correct, forward of the battery.

 

[KF6NFW]

I found it, and in the process my brother in law the brilliant ass he is, went and broke the battery cables while disconnecting the battery that I never asked him to touch!
I wish some people would leave their damn hands off another persons truck, wife, beer, and projects!
The battery terminals are dirty and clamp wasnt letting go so instead of walking up the driveway 25 feet to the tool box for the cable puller, he decided to hit it as if it was a block of ice with a wrench or two, until it broke.
I sure hope he likes the ground and crawling around on it, cause I sent him to the shop to get new parts for him to install when he gets back. should I tell him where it drips oil from or let him find out?

anyways I found the ICM, in front of the battery tray, and am preying that is the fix, as I just spent the last of my SSI check this month on it! $212

 

[FR-425]

Fingers crossed.. .. .

 

[KF6NFW]

Well it didnt fix it! It is now at a shop where they too are now stumped. the only consistant thing is an error code.
I was reading codes wrong to begin with, but even when the correct code was read, it still indicates an issue. the only code that keps coming up is 226, (IDM Fault). I get no CEL.
Now here is the question. My shop tels me that they are getting this code as a KOEO, and said it should be a KOER. I cant confirm this but it down sound correct to me.

The shop has taken a MAF from another known good truck and installed on mine, no luck. The TPS tracs correctly, ran Propane through injectors, and no change. IAC tests good. ICM and coil pack have been replaced plugs have less than a mile on them, wires are good!
Put this beast on a scope and it looks good with an occasional hash mark. No vacuum leaks we can find, and does not appear to be any mechanical failures.
Fuel filter is clean and pressure a little under spec but no change to running condition when altered up or down at shop.

I love my truck, bu tthe edge of the bluff is looking closer and closer!

 

[Wolfie_85]

I still wonder about the PCM. Those things are friggen voodoo when they get messed up. Like KOER and KOEO codes getting confused and running poorly without any other reason to.

I know it's a pain, but once you iron this out, it'll be like a new truck. I've delt with electrinic gremlins in other cars. I seriously would advise them to look there if they haven't. The salvage yard is your friend for experimental fixes on a budget.

 

[KF6NFW]

at this point I am also SERIOUSLY considering the computer myself. I was to begin with, but was erroring on the side of caution and went what I have typically experienced in past as well as others had suggested towards, all to no avail.
You are correct though, once this is all done, it will be like new again.

The shop also said same thing about the computer that a yard may be the best bet for cheaper than buying newly reconditioned.
However, my belief is why buy a junkyard part? I already own one! and then I look at the budget and the fact I now am taking a loan in order to fix the truck because it needs to be on the road, Just like everyone else though finances get tough now and then, and we manage through them.