Ping? what is it exactly?

[metstalker]

i may be wrong but i thought ping was the valves being forced shut because of off timing? if it was a ware in a engine component what would it be? valves, camshaft ..... i am wondering this because i am thinking about getting my engine rebuilt this summer. and i figured that since i know the engine block has not been abused the engine would be ok to rebuild.

 

[Alec]

Some or all of the fuel detonating before it's supposed to. It's correctly called pre-detonation.

 

[mrboyle]

Actually its called pre-ignition. It occurs when the air/fuel in the cylinder ignites prior the piston fully compressing the a/f and the ignition firing the spark plug. This can cause cylinder head and piston damage if allowed to occur for extended periods, but (unless something breaks) it will not damage the engine block, nor will it damage the heads beyond repair (again, providing nothing brakes).

 

[metstalker]

would there be any component that would cause pre detonation or ignition. could the computer timing be to blame? i am up to 93 octane trying to get rid of the ping and it has not gone away seems after a while the engine just adjust to the higher octane. i am pretty sure it is no carbon build up because ran one can of sea foam through engine and every time i change spark plugs they seem to not have an unusual amount of carbon build up. cleaned the maf sensor also still no help. since there is so many miles on the engine i figured that this summer i would just have a professional shop rebuild the block and may be beef it up a bit. what do yall think? i am pretty sure that a rebuild would get rid of the ping.

 

[glfredrick]

Three things can commonly cause "ping." First, timing advanced too far - causing the spark to set before the piston reaches top dead center. While a bit of extra spark advance can "anticipate" the timing of the piston - this is a fine line, and too much will ignite the flame front while the piston is still moving up the firing stroke.

The next thing that can cause pinging is overheating. Make sure that your cooling system is working correctly. Along with this, overheating can also be cuased by too lean a fuel mixture - which casues overheating. (FYI - this is the PRIMARY REASON that 2 stroke motors burn up and/or cease the piston - and too lean is usually caused by some well-minded individual that figues a bit more oil in the gasoline would be good for lubrication - it is not - it just leans out the fuel cuve and causes overheating (fuel acts as a coolant) and scuffing.)

The third thing that can casue ping is carbon in the cylinder heads. Carbon buildup can cause hot spots that "glow" and ignite the fuel mixture at all the wrong times. This comes from lugging the truck a lot, on trails - or around the freeway at low RPM's. It also comes from using a poor grade of gas and/or from using Pennzoil or Quaker state oil for a long time... (see the oil threads on this board)

 

[MrShorty]

Ping caused by running lean is fairly common on this engine. You've cleaned the MAF, and that is one of the most common causes. The other most common is a vacuum leak. It's common for the lower intake manifold bolts to work loose, allowing a slight leak there. Can usually be fixed by tightening those bolts. Make sure the air intake is intact and that the lower intake is sealing.

 

[metstalker]

well it cant be because of the lack of grade of engine may be i can look a the intake manifold bolts can any one direct me to them and how tight should they be (torque wise) i am not sure about the vaccume leak i will look into that also

 

[bluevolume]

The replies here are correct, "ping" is having detonation inside the cylinder prematurely. You didn't really mention why you are asking, but I'm assuming that this is happening in your Explorer.

For most vehicles made within the last 10-15 years, a "ping" is most likely going to be caused by overheating and/or carbon buildup. Most vehicles, Explorers included, have a solid-state ignition with a knock sensor that prevents "pinging" from being a result of the timing being off.

A lot of Explorers have a problem with carbon buildup, and from my experience I've seen this as the main cause of pre-detonation. The best solution is to have the dealer perform their intake cleanup (I don't know what they do, but it works wonders). You can also try Seafoam, or less intense solutions such as X-10 fuel system cleaner. It also helps to clean out the engine by running at high RPMs every once in a while.

Blue

 

[metstalker]

Had a dealer do a cleaning, then ran a little less then a bottle in 2 interverals (with same bottle) and still it pings. I understand that some people live with it and it is not that big of a deal but i would like to fix what ever it is. I dont believe the earlier explorers have a knock sensor. I was just wondering since I have around 213000 miles on the Ex if a worn part could contribute to the pinging or the valves need reworking. it is not certain but i am planning on doing or getting someone to rebuild the engine during this summer

 

[lonestar]

4.0 OHV leaks

EDIT: wrong button

 

[Shagnasty]

A lot of explorer owneres confuse pinging with valvetrain clatter. Our valvetrain is prone to wearing, and making a rattling noise very similar to pinging. I've even seen one with no noise at idle, and a knocking further up the rpm range. The exact opposite of what is typically seen. Either way, be carefull.... somethings not right, and can get even more expensive to fix.,

 

[Positive Vibes]

Shagnasty, if it is valvetrain clatter, how are we to fix it. I have pinging and I have a nasty clatter coming from some where internal, sounds like its right above or around where you drain the oil. Thanks.

 

[metstalker]

it seems that it only starts getting bad when the over drive kicks in there is no ping at idle or around the 0-45 range (i dont know if that helps any but it is more information) and does that sound like valve clatter?

 

[bluevolume]

Originally posted by metstalker
it seems that it only starts getting bad when the over drive kicks in there is no ping at idle or around the 0-45 range (i dont know if that helps any but it is more information) and does that sound like valve clatter?

That behavior sounds like pre-detonation. If it gets very noticeable once overdrive kicks in, and you can hear it get worse as you slowly give it more gas, I would say thats definately what it is.

Blue

 

[metstalker]

thanks
i am surprised that with so many people having ping problems that there would be more people that could pin point the problem. is the reason that they cannot do that because there are so many thing that can cause the ping.

Carbon build up
dirty MAF
wrong gas grade
loose upper maifold bolts
......

well if i get my engine rebuilt i will have the mechanic see if he can find a reason that it is pinging as bad as it does.

 

[bluevolume]

If you get the engine rebuilt, you will most likely find that the heads are loaded up with carbon. A rebuild is really the best way to get rid of it, so you are doing the right thing. Best of luck.

Blue

 

[metstalker]

thanks i have not decided yet but it is a strong chance since this car has to last me another 3 years or until out of college are there better (engineered) heads avaliable that could reduce the carbon build up on the market.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

If the "ping" cannot be cured by cleaning the maf, iac or professional combustion chamber cleaning, then chances are that its loose intake manifold bolts.

This is very common on the 93/94 models. Pull #5 spark plug and have a good look at it. If its all "fuzzy" with deposits, then you have found the problem.

It will only take 5 minutes of your time, so pull that plug and inspect it.

 

[cooperacing]

Fuzzy #5 Plug

I have been living with this problem for a year now. If plug #5 is fuzzy with white deposits I probably have loose intake bolts... If the intake gasket was bad would I have my oil and coolant mixing or is that just another problem I also have. I was thinking the pinging type noise was a leaking head gasket on the driver's side. Is there anyway to test which gasket is leaking? Like spraying WD-40 or something to see if it changes the idle when it sucks it in. I'm at a loss...Thanks.j.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

cooperacing:

See if you can tighten 1 of the bolts on the left side of the lower manifold with a wrench. If so, then the lower intake needs re-torqued.

When I had my 93, #5 plug had the deposits and this was the only way that I could eliminate the spark knock.The upper to lower gasket was only about 7 or 8 bucks, so with an assortment of metric and sae sockets, plus an inch pound torque wrench, I was able to eliminate the ping. You should be able to do this job in a couple of hours. But it returned in a year or so down the road for me.

Pulling the lower manifold is the "best" way to do this, but its much more involved, need a bigger assortment of tools and took me several days.