Possible clutch problem 92 explorer XL

[BigPapiBrady]

Hey everyone,

So I am having some problems with my 92 explorer XL. I was coming back from camping, not towing anything, and as I came to a stop sign I put the car in neutral. Shifted into first gear and as I started to go, well thought I was going to go, I let the clutch out and gave it some gas and nothing.

No burning smells, noises, grinding, or jerking. Its the 4x4 model but I have the 4x4 line out of it. Its like the clutch went out but without any notice. clutch wasn't slipping, no loss of power, no smells. So I was stuck for about 2 hours in the mountains with nothing but a cigar and a cooler of beer.

I'm jacking it up today to do some work on it and see if I can find out the problem. Any help would be appreciated. I'm not sure whether its the clutch (friction disk, pressure plate) or something more serious like my tranny. Engine still runs fine and no other problems.

192k miles, 4wd auto lock hubs, 6 cylinder, EFI, 5speed manual, clutch fixed once 2 years ago but felt it going out, no after market mods.

 

[murkinstock]

Seems like it's stuck in neutral. How and why, I'm not sure, I don't have any experience with working on these transmissions.
The only other thing I could think is the clutch hydraulics aren't releasing the pressure somewhere but you would definitely be able to feel that, and I've never even heard of that happening with the clutch.

Somebody will come to the rescue, I'm sure. Sorry it's not me. Good luck!

Welcome to the forum!!!

 

[RangerX]

The big weak link in the system is the slave. Not saying that's it, though.
Did you replace it two years ago when you did the clutch? If so, what brand of slave?
Is there normal resistance on the clutch pedal?
I gotta ask the dumb question - you did try the other gears, yeah?

 

[the_don]

From experience, i know that IF the friction disc and pressure plate are still good, the clutch will fail CLOSED. If the master,slave, or hydro line fails, or air is in the system it will not go in to gear from neutral while the engine is running. at the bottom of the bell housing you should have a plastic plug, remove the plug , and have a helper press on the clutch peddle(with the engine off), you should be able to see the slave cylinder pressing against the fingers of the pressure plate if the clutch system is in working order.

 

[BigPapiBrady]

Thanks for the help guys.
It's on jack stands and I'm. Going to pull the tranny tonight. I'm not sure if the slave is working or not. I'll check before dropping the tranny. As for the gears all of them are out. I can shift freely between all gears while the engine is running with out pressing the clutch. Reverse also doesn't work. All the work on the clutch was done by a shop here in town(first and last time I let them touch it) so I'm not sure what brand the slave is. The clutch felt normal when the incident occurred now that is has been sitting for a while the clutch has stiffened up a bit. What would you suggest doing first?
1. Check slave reaction?
2. Master/reservoir?
3. Then clutch?
Im used to a clutch failing and still having some power to the wheels to get home.
I'm a newby when it comes to transmissions but I'm pretty sure that manual transmissions don't have a neutral control switch, but I could be wrong. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks

 

[the_don]

Now that im thinking about it again, i wonder if you broke the input shaft?? Let us know what it turns out to be.

 

[BigPapiBrady]

Smashed plenty of fingers, but only have a couple bolts left on tranny. Had to remove carpet and the pass seat to open access panel to get to the top bolts.
I did have a friend press the clutch while I was watching and saw the slave cylinder press against the fingers of the clutch and open the clutch.
What would I have to do to fix the input shaft?
Is that the input shaft of the transmission that engages with the clutch? Or is it shaft that goes to the transfer case from the transmission? Guessing input shaft I'm going with the one from the engine to tranny? How difficult would that be to replace? Price? What else could I do to diagnose this problem to try and figure out what is it?
I have about 2-3 day left of using the shop I'm in. I'm trying to hurry before the temp drops and the snow comes back here.
Thanks Don!!!

 

[the_don]

I have found using a 48" 1/2" extension makes getting to the top four bolts easy, once you drop the transmission cross member and lower the back end so the engine/transmission sits at a harsh angle(but be careful of the cooling fan, and engine mounts). As far as the input shaft goes, if never had a M5od apart that far, but i did find a nice rebuild page here: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159665

 

[BigPapiBrady]

Thanks. Yeah I got all the bolts off but the transfer case was stuck on. I couldn't get the bolts from the access panel inside so I took off the air intake and ac line under the hood and it was easy with just a 17 mm wrench. So hopefully with the t case off the tranny will slide off with ease. Then into trying to figure out why the hell my car won't move cause I'm still stuck on that one.
I will check the. Input shaft on the tranny then the output shaft. If it isn't either of those do you have any idea what it might be? Maybe the t case has stripped a gear?
Do you guys have any links for rebuilding the m50d r1 transmission?
Anything to watch out for? This will be the first time that I have EVER had a transmission open!

 

[FR-425]

Start with the shift tower, it's possible that the "pickle fork" is broken/bent and not actually shifting the gears.

This can be replaced without further dis-assembly. In fact it can be done with the trans still in the truck.

 

[BigPapiBrady]

Sorry guys, I took some time off to get away from this project. Started doing more damage then good after getting irritated with it. I will post some pics of what I have found to help others who are faced with this issue.
I will look at the pickle fork again. I looked fine when I pulled it out. I was wondering if the problem could be in the transfer case on the rear of the transmission?
Well I was more hoping that it could be the t case instead of the transmission.
Does anyone know if it could be the t case? Once again with the engine running and with out pressing the clutch I can shift in-between all the gears without any resistance, noises, grinding, ECt.
Clutch appeared to be in working order to me. Clutch fork pressed against the clutch fingers and disengaged the clutch. Plenty of life left on the friction disk.

Thanks for the advice. Let me know your thoughts anything helps from here. Lol

 

[FR-425]

Sounds like ya broke the input shaft.

Gonna have to drop the trans and have a look-see

 

[BigPapiBrady]

Took the clutch off yesterday and it is worn down but not to the point where it wouldn't have any power to the transmission. I have checked the input shaft of the transmission and it appears to be fine on the outer part. I'm going to start the disassembly of the transmission this weekend and see how the internal portion of the input shaft looks.
Does anybody know a website that has a PDF breakdown for the transmission?
M5OD-R1 is the transmission.
Or know where I can get a CD or book on step by step disassembly and reassembly directions.
I don't believe that a Haynes or chiltons manual will have what I'm looking for.
Thanks guys.

 

[Arne13]

I am not familiar with the explorer setup, but with my old bronco II It would do what you are describing if the transfer case was bumped into neutral. Mine had a manual shift lever, not electric. Don't know how the electric ones work. Good luck with it.

 

[BigPapiBrady]

[MENTION=263203]Arne13[/MENTION]
Were you able to shift between gears without using your clutch while the car was running?
I hope it's the t case but since it is on the rear of the transmission and I could shift into any gear without using the clutch I still think that the problem would have to be in the transmission. Only way to explain why It won't drive and even when parked in gear the car will roll.

 

[2stroke]

If your T case is in neutral, that would absolutely cause the problem. I assume you have the push button like most, and in that case, I have no idea how you could get stuck in neutral. I don't see how you could break anything in the tranny shifting into first. It sounds like something to do with the shifter. If it was a cable linkage tranny, it would certainly be a broken cable. I've never heard of something like this happening to a transmission with direct linkage. I'm sorry I cant help more. I do 99% of my own work. I can take out a tranny in 45 minutes, I can maintain them, but I bring mine to specialists for internal work.

 

[RangerX]

Does anybody know a website that has a PDF breakdown for the transmission?
M5OD-R1 is the transmission.
Or know where I can get a CD or book on step by step disassembly and reassembly directions.

This thread might help somewhat: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248249
I'll try to find more.

 

[Arne13]

[MENTION=263203]Arne13[/MENTION]
Were you able to shift between gears without using your clutch while the car was running?
I hope it's the t case but since it is on the rear of the transmission and I could shift into any gear without using the clutch I still think that the problem would have to be in the transmission. Only way to explain why It won't drive and even when parked in gear the car will roll.

I think I could, but the bronc. is gone. Been quite a while since I messed with it. If yours is the push button, I don't believe there is a neutral spot on it. I had the plastic bushing break and had the transfer motor off, don't remember a neutral zone . Think it was only stamped 2H, 4H and 4L. Arne.

 

[BigPapiBrady]

Thanks for the link, that is what I have been looking for. I was hoping to find a Manual for it but the only one I can find is a $200+ Online one.

Yes that would be helpful but mine is all electronic:/ I might just disassemble the t case too just to see how the gears and linkage looks because I lost 4 wheel drive a year before the transmission went out or what ever happen... Still to be determined. But I have a feeling the other problem is in the front differential. I can turn the u joint where the 4 wheel drive line connects to the front diff and it pinches then pops and turns without spinning the wheels.
This car has definitely been a fun and learning process. Thanks for all the help guys.
If anyone has any additional info or explanation for what might be wronge I'm all ears. I'm going to start tearing the transmission apart tomorrow.

 

[the_don]

remove the electric motor form the side of the t-case(its three bolts i think)then use a pair of pliers to turn the triangular shaft into 2hi 4hi and 4low then spin the t-case input shaft by hand in each gear and see if the output shafts respond. and since you have the trans out, reinstall the shift tower and work through gears, while spinning the input by hand.