Post your dyno results

[JCUZ]

Wow, that seems really, really low. almost 100 hp loss to the wheels, should be around 215-230rwhp, what kind of dyno were you on. Maybe its the loss through the transfer case? Were you in 4th gear automatic 1:1 ratio?

Mine's a 178kw version (235hp?). With at least 30% driveline losses (60kw/77hp) expected for an auto 4WD, 120 rwkw odd is in the ball park. Not sure where you got your 215-230 from, except maybe that's close to what the engine is rated at.

Rough rule of thumb is HP at the wheels = kw at the engine. Kw = 0.75 HP, so if you take HP at the wheels, divide by 3 and mulitply by 4, you get an approxiamte HP at the engine. This work better for RWD automatics, but can be used as a rough guide for almost any car (2WD, 4WD etc)

In my case 160/3 = 53.
53 * 4 = 212hp (engine)
This is close enough to the 235 hp Ford rate them at.

 

[JCUZ]

BWM + Dyno = equivalent of a BWM burn out; not good for the cluthes on the T-Case.

not to mention the BWM doesnt work for AWD

Didn't realise the initial question was only aimed at AWD.

As for a dyno being the equivalent of a burnout - WRONG! A dyno emulates driving on the road, not doing a burnout. If your car is so powerful that it starts spinning wheels on the dyno rollers, any good dyno operator will shut the car down as it is a safety issue (the car could launch off the dyno if not tied down). I have seen 600HP cars dynoed wioth no slippage of the wheels. To say a dyno run is like doing a burnout is so far from the truth it's not funny.

 

[Uafan]

my friend jason has a 04 toyota corolla s and he got it dyno'd 3 weeks ago and he was real pissed off when they dyno'd his car.

His had 99 hp and 105 lbs of torque and he put an exhaust and an cold air intake so far in his corolla and he told them to dyno it 3 times and it still came up the same results. He was hella pissed off and hella embarrased as well cause there were other cars that had more hp then him.

I was laughing when he got 99 hp out of a 04 corolla s. Anyways he told everyone that dyno might be wrong he says he thinks he is pushing out more hp then 99. He told everyone he thinks he should be pushing out like 120 or 130 hp in it.

But i dunno.

ROFL! If you think about it, with no tune and those mods you shouldn't be getting much more if anything anyway. Does he have a cone filter? Or a true cold air, and a muffler, or a catback? With an intake, if you just do an intake and don't change intake plenum, and throttle body, your not allowing as much air in as you potentially can.

 

[JTX]

406rwhp
368rwtq

 

[shadowless127]

Didn't realise the initial question was only aimed at AWD.

As for a dyno being the equivalent of a burnout - WRONG! A dyno emulates driving on the road, not doing a burnout. If your car is so powerful that it starts spinning wheels on the dyno rollers, any good dyno operator will shut the car down as it is a safety issue (the car could launch off the dyno if not tied down). I have seen 600HP cars dynoed wioth no slippage of the wheels. To say a dyno run is like doing a burnout is so far from the truth it's not funny.

if the front wheels aren't rolling then as far as the BWM is concerned it's a burnout, because the clutches are still touching but not going anywhere. Even with the BWM you do not get TRUE 2WD. I sitll dont know why friggin ford didnt just give us a 2WD option like GM does.

 

[techieman33]

Didn't realise the initial question was only aimed at AWD.

As for a dyno being the equivalent of a burnout - WRONG! A dyno emulates driving on the road, not doing a burnout. If your car is so powerful that it starts spinning wheels on the dyno rollers, any good dyno operator will shut the car down as it is a safety issue (the car could launch off the dyno if not tied down). I have seen 600HP cars dynoed wioth no slippage of the wheels. To say a dyno run is like doing a burnout is so far from the truth it's not funny.

actually he's right as far as the transfer case is concerned you might as well be doing a burnout, the rear is "slipping" while the front stays stationary, which is going to damage your transfer case.

 

[JCUZ]

actually he's right as far as the transfer case is concerned you might as well be doing a burnout, the rear is "slipping" while the front stays stationary, which is going to damage your transfer case.

But that is not different to having auto 4WD on. Most of the time it's only in 2WD mode, but when it detects slip, an electronic signal is sent that engages the transfer case and the front diff. So what the BWM does is stop the transfer case from engaging - that is all. The transfer case still does the same stuff it does when Auto 4WD is selected but the car is in 2WD (if you follow). The transfer clutch burnout myth is irrelevant on any 4WD that is not AWD all of the time.

I think you guys need to do a bit of research on how it works before trying to tell us that it is burning the transfer case out, when in fact it is not working any differently to the way the transfer case works 80% of the time (or more) anyway - ie, it's in idle, unengaged mode.

Please note that I am talking specifically about my Explorer, which is a 2003 model 4WD with Auto, High and Low options (and now 2WD option). I don't know about earlier models - what you're saying might apply to them, but you seem to be implying that it applies to mine as well, and I know it doesn't.

 

[whitestang04gt]

But that is not different to having auto 4WD on. Most of the time it's only in 2WD mode, but when it detects slip, an electronic signal is sent that engages the transfer case and the front diff. So what the BWM does is stop the transfer case from engaging - that is all. The transfer case still does the same stuff it does when Auto 4WD is selected but the car is in 2WD (if you follow). The transfer clutch burnout myth is irrelevant on any 4WD that is not AWD all of the time.

I think you guys need to do a bit of research on how it works before trying to tell us that it is burning the transfer case out, when in fact it is not working any differently to the way the transfer case works 80% of the time (or more) anyway - ie, it's in idle, unengaged mode.

Please note that I am talking specifically about my Explorer, which is a 2003 model 4WD with Auto, High and Low options (and now 2WD option). I don't know about earlier models - what you're saying might apply to them, but you seem to be implying that it applies to mine as well, and I know it doesn't.

No, there right. The BWM works but it does fake the vehicle into doing what it wasn't designed for. Your right it does sense slippage, but all 4 tires are spinning, so slippage is very minimal. You have to remember no matter what mode your in when you are moving down the road, all 4 tires are still turning, & the front is turning the front part of the transfer case..
However when sitting still or on the dyno or doing a burnout with the BWM, the front part of the transfer case is not spinning, thus creating "extreme" slippage & friction heat, not a good thing.

 

[techieman33]

The easy cure would be to remove your front drive shaft while on a 2wd dyno, then the front output shaft can still spin freely, minimizing possible damage

 

[shadowless127]

The easy cure would be to remove your front drive shaft while on a 2wd dyno, then the front output shaft can still spin freely, minimizing possible damage

Yes, but this will not give you an acurate dyno read. Bottom line is, in order to Dyno any AWD or 4WD 2nd/3rd/4th Gen with accuracy you need a 4 wheel dyno, or at least a Dyno with rollers on the front.

 

[techieman33]

Yes, but this will not give you an acurate dyno read. Bottom line is, in order to Dyno any AWD or 4WD 2nd/3rd/4th Gen with accuracy you need a 4 wheel dyno, or at least a Dyno with rollers on the front.

I don't really know how true that is. When I was at the track last month I made a couple of passes without my front driveshaft and I was only a few hundredths of a second slower, so there really wasn't any noticeable power loss. I'm awd by the way.

 

[whitestang04gt]

Yes, but this will not give you an acurate dyno read. Bottom line is, in order to Dyno any AWD or 4WD 2nd/3rd/4th Gen with accuracy you need a 4 wheel dyno, or at least a Dyno with rollers on the front.

Still wouldn't work with the AWD the viscous transfer case splits power 35%front/65% rear so it still wouldn't be accurate on a 4wd dyno, unless someone has come up with some dyno software to set percentage of the front & rear. So far I has seen no one have anyluck with these AWD's on a dyno. Rollers on the front would only work if they were being driven by the rear wheel turned in 2wd & I doubt even that would be accurate since it would be robbing power from the rear to drive a roller. With AWD's we are talking about there really is not an accurate way, that I've heard or seen, that would do this. A 50/50 transfer case is a whole different story.

 

[whitestang04gt]

I don't really know how true that is. When I was at the track last month I made a couple of passes without my front driveshaft and I was only a few hundredths of a second slower, so there really wasn't any noticeable power loss. I'm awd by the way.

The difference in time probably was only a result from the lack of front tires pulling you out of the whole. From my understanding, The AWD will still only put down roughly its 65% to the rear whether the front driveshaft is there or not. 2wd swap is the only way to get all the power to the rear wheels.

 

[whitestang04gt]

The easy cure would be to remove your front drive shaft while on a 2wd dyno, then the front output shaft can still spin freely, minimizing possible damage

Good thought, for R&D I wish I had dyno'd mine on my dyno before removing the trans to convert it to 2wd, but didn't cross my mind. Maybe I can find someone to do that so I can show the difference in power between the 2.

 

[whitestang04gt]

So "no one" has a V8 4.6L 2wd explorer or mountaineer with a dyno sheet????

 

[RoadBully]

So "no one" has a V8 4.6L 2wd explorer or mountaineer with a dyno sheet????

Not sure why that surprises you, we are talking about an SUV.
I do realize that SOME people do race their suv's but it's not exactly common practice.
If you were on a muscle car forum, I'm sure you'd have dyno sheets coming out the wazoo... but I really don't see that happening here.

Would be nice to see some numbers though...


Ben

 

[whitestang04gt]

Not sure why that surprises you, we are talking about an SUV.
I do realize that SOME people do race their suv's but it's not exactly common practice.
If you were on a muscle car forum, I'm sure you'd have dyno sheets coming out the wazoo... but I really don't see that happening here.

Would be nice to see some numbers though...


Ben

As much talk as I see about horsepower, intakes & tuners on here, I would have figured someone would have something. I'm just curious to see what a stock one actually puts down on the dyno.

 

[JCUZ]

As much talk as I see about horsepower, intakes & tuners on here, I would have figured someone would have something. I'm just curious to see what a stock one actually puts down on the dyno.

I've already posted my figures up - the fact no-one wants to use them is beyond me; the thing was in 2WD when the dyno was done, so the figure is as good as you're going to get and is in the ballpark.120 odd rwkw = 180odd rwhp for an engine rated at 178 fwkw (230 odd fwhp) is on the money.

 

[whitestang04gt]

I've already posted my figures up - the fact no-one wants to use them is beyond me; the thing was in 2WD when the dyno was done, so the figure is as good as you're going to get and is in the ballpark.120 odd rwkw = 180odd rwhp for an engine rated at 178 fwkw (230 odd fwhp) is on the money.

Was that a dynojet or what kind of dyno...there are so many inaccurate dyno numbers out there..I have guys walk in here with 03/04 cobra motors with dyno sheets saying over 600hp on a stock eaton, sorry it ain't happening...
True your numbers seem to be very close, but you have 4wd drivetrain with the BWM? so there is still some loss in numbers compared to true 2wd. I was trying to get a baseline. I am getting my tranny & drivetrain swapped to true 2wd as we speak, but the tranny is getting complete beefed up & torque convertor too, not to mention I am putting true dual magnaflow exhaust with high flow cats on when the tranny goes in, so I'm sure my numbers will be somewhat higher than a bone stock. I'll still have a baseline before i start tuning & doing all our R&D for intakes, pulleys, electric fan, TB, plenums, coil packs, etc. I just was looking for a number to see if were in the ball park with a baseline. Calculated it should be theoretically in the 190-195 range stock at the rear wheels. If we start out at 200rwhp baseline, i'll be happy, then making 230-240 at the rear wheels won't be a problem.

 

[JCUZ]

It was on a dynodynamics dynamometer (Australian brand, i believe). At worst, if you have only my figure to compare to, and you get less than that as a base, then you know something's wrong with your truck. I'd maybe add 10% to mine to account for the additional (though not operating) drivetrain loss, but really, as the transfer case is controlled electronically, and for all intents and purposes, the 4WD Explorers are really 2WD until the rears slip, I think you'll not get much difference between mine and a true 2WD of the same year, engine capacity etc. For this reason, i'm pretty keen to see what a true 2WDer would put out at the back wheels too.