Question concerning Tires and Noise on 2003 Mountaineer AWD V8

[bbillingsley]

Ok let me preface this by saying I am completely stupid when it comes to cars and fixing cars.

About a month ago I decided to sell my 2008 4runner to eliminate a car payment and took the extra money on that to buy a 2003 mercury mountaineer premier V8 AWD with pretty much all the options including factory dvd.

My question is this. Being an AWD, the front 2 tires are shot....pretty close to tread bar...the back 2 tires I would say are about 75-80% tread. The front 2 seem even on tread (but needs to be replaced) and the back 2 seem pretty even as well.

It has about 140k miles on it. I've noticed while driving mainly on turns/pulling in/out of driveway whenever I do that it makes a weird noise. It's not like a POP POP POP noise, its more like a small grrrrrrrrr sound and it seems to happen as I'm turning and slightly after the turn. It's difficult to explain. It seems like it's coming from both the wheels and then almost like under the engine is the grrrrrrrrrr sound it makes, like rrrr-rrrra-rrr-rra.

I of course have been researching/googling trying to figure out whats wrong. Most sites I go to refer to a loud POP POP POP sound and it doesn't make that. Its not really even noticeable from people outside, I can just hear it inside and it does seem like the wheels are kind of slipping a little bit on sharp turns.

I'm trying to figure out if one.....could this be just because my 2 front tires are shot tread wise and I'm sure has a different circumference from the back two or do I have a bigger problem perhaps? The car itself drives fine. transmission seems to shift fine and I don't have any issues once I get going faster on the interstate and stuff, its just going 10-15 mph turning and pulling in/out of driveways and into parking spots where it makes that noise. I do notice the steering wheel will shake on bumpier roads and it maybe veers a little bit to the side but just by looking at the evenness on the tread I don't think its out of alignment but it could be.

And the next question is, in regards to the tires, the original plan was to buy 2 new tires to replace the 2 bad ones on the front and just keep the back 2 tires since they seem ok tread wise. However, after reading around I've been seeing that on AWD cars you need to buy 4 new tires to have identical tread/etc. Is this correct or can I get by with just buying 2 new ones.

I thought about just taking it up to a Ford dealership but I didnt know if they'd charge me just to look at it and I didn't know if they'd be honest with me or not because I literally don't know a single thing about cars. Every car I've owned before this has been newer with a warranty and though it feels great to have a paid for car in good condition, I am definitely worried that I'll may have to fork out major dollars.

Thanks very much for the help.

 

[Wilson Ross]

Possible Problems

Just to let you know my experience I own 5 Explorers all operating from 93 -2005. The first item you need to resolve is if any of the wheel bearings have been changed. Then have someone check the play on each tire in and out it should be almost nothing but minor these trucks are real high on the bad wheel bearing list ounce over 100 thousand miles it seems to never cause tire weare. As a general rule these bearing may sing, pull, rattle, sweak & many other things very easy to over look.
Your front and back tire problem is really not one the Spider gears in the rear end takes care of minor differences such as this when you turn a cornor your tires are running all different speeds do they tell you not to turn corners. One last item if you will rotate your tires on a 5000 mile schedule you will find it well worth it in tire life, (front to rear) (rear to front). Good Luck :roll:

 

[747driver]

I have a 03 awd v8 mounty. It has 157,000 miles on it. Sounds like the front wheel hub bearings are going bad. What I have read is this usually happens around 140,000 miles. I replaced mine this past summer, not a bad job. The new bearings cost me $240 from Rock Auto Parts, they were Timken bearings. I have enjoyed my 03, plus I tow a 16 ft dual axle car trailer back and forth to Tenn. with building supplies for the house we are building . I will run this suv in the ground, then buy another one. Love those Fords !!

 

[Wilson Ross]

Rear Bearings

I have a 03 awd v8 mounty. It has 157,000 miles on it. Sounds like the front wheel hub bearings are going bad. What I have read is this usually happens around 140,000 miles. I replaced mine this past summer, not a bad job. The new bearings cost me $240 from Rock Auto Parts, they were Timken bearings. I have enjoyed my 03, plus I tow a 16 ft dual axle car trailer back and forth to Tenn. with building supplies for the house we are building . I will run this suv in the ground, then buy another one. Love those Fords !!

Just a reminder don't forget the rear wheel bearings they are just as bad to go out as the front if not more so also changing them can be a new experence. My highest milage Exployer is a 95 XLT V6 with over 300 thousand miles and still going strong.

 

[Wilson Ross]

I have a 03 awd v8 mounty. It has 157,000 miles on it. Sounds like the front wheel hub bearings are going bad. What I have read is this usually happens around 140,000 miles. I replaced mine this past summer, not a bad job. The new bearings cost me $240 from Rock Auto Parts, they were Timken bearings. I have enjoyed my 03, plus I tow a 16 ft dual axle car trailer back and forth to Tenn. with building supplies for the house we are building . I will run this suv in the ground, then buy another one. Love those Fords !!

looks like a mistake

 

[747driver]

I know, but no bad sounds out of the rear bearings yet. When I do replace them I will take them off and then take them to the Ford dealer to have the old bearings pressed out and new ones pressed in.

 

[bbillingsley]

Thanks for the info guys. I noticed after looking at the two front wheels....this is gonna be hard to explain....the deal that sort of connect to the bar that connects to the wheels looks like its torn or broken maybe. I've attached a picture. I have no idea what its called and I'm sure I'll have to take it to a dealer or somewhere to get it fixed because I don't believe I'll be able to figure out whats wrong or fix anything.

I noticed after driving it some that the little noise it makes on sharp turns is probably more a normal sound...its not really noticeable. However when turning into a parking lot and making sharp turns while driving very slow, I notice the wheels sort of make a rubbing noise and the car vibrates a little bit and I know that it doesn't feel like something normal.

Any idea on what it will cost me to get it fixed taking it somewhere? I just don't want to waste money on something but obviously I need it to be able to run right.

Thanks again for the help. Here's the picture I'm referring to. And it looks like this on both front wheels.

 

[jrford]

those would be called upper ball joints. Yes, they are bad and would casue a lot of noise. Best to replace asap. Call around ask what they would charge to replace them, they should be able to give you an estimate, (rough). If the other side looks the same it would need to be replaced. Just guessing on cost parts alone are
$20 ball joint, more work involved, 1-2 hours worth of work, maybe.
$60 for the whole control arm, less work; most shops will go this route as its faster for them. Guess about an 1 hour of work but just a guess. There is something called book time, no idea what that is.
then after all said and done it would need a alignment, another 70-100 bucks.

 

[imp]

Ball Joints, Upper

The torn or broken rubber seal on the upper ball joint pictured allows retained lubricant (grease) to escape, as well as allowing entry of foreign materials, sand, dust, water, both effects ultimately destroying the ball joint.

The upper ball joint serves two purposes: it allows the steering knuckle or spindle to rotate about the axis of the ball's fastening stud, which in turn allows the wheel & tire to steer the vehicle; it also controls the position of the top of the knuckle. This ball does not support vehicle weight, but DOES experience side loads imposed by vehicle cornering and the loads caused by the tire hitting askew, such as rubbing against curbs or "speed bumps".

Replacement of your upper ball joints, even if not yet badly worn, is indicated because of the broken sealing elements. Unlike earlier designs, these joints cannot be individually replaced, as they are integral (a part of) to the upper support arms, or "A-Arms as sometimes called". Replacement support-arm/ball joint assemblies are now available both WITH or WITHOUT, replaceable ball joints. imp

 

[bbillingsley]

Do you guys think there could be another problem that caused the ball joints to go bad, or is it something that just goes bad after X amount of miles?

Do I need to check my lower ball joints/arm as well and make sure they're ok?

 

[Wilson Ross]

Add On

Well folks you are into a problem that seems to have been there forever or about 10 years or more somewhere after 100 thousand miles or before those boots go south I have replaced about 4 and have 4 that need replacing. We keep a close vigil on them when they tear and get many more thousand miles out of them however I would not encourage any of you to try this there could be a disaster. Replacing these arms is really no great problem 3 bolts 1 nut and your almost there of course you need to jack it up and remove the tire. Be careful removng the long bolts holding the rear of the pivot arm in most cases you will find shims located in that area if you put them back just as you found them alignment may not be necessary I have slid by 4 times. The arms will cost $60.00 plus at Autozone some are better than others but Ford is at the bottom that is where this problem started.

 

[crazymind]

on an all wheel drive car you need to have the tires with in so many percent of eachother other wise you will tear up the t-case. it wont happen right away but the uneven wear will cause you to spend more money down the road. just my $.02

 

[747driver]

I have a 03 AWD Mounty with 158,000 miles. Never had the front end algined or the transfer case fluid changed. Have been meaning to do both but haven't. You got me thinking I should do it soon !!

Thanks

Chuck

 

[esclamada]

If there's no play on the wheel then the ball joints are OK, the boot just cracked but since it will allow all the dirt and salt inside it will not last that long. I have those on mine torn/cracked for over a year until the driver side started to fail (play is noticeable) I guess it was around 90k when I have it replaced.


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[Stelvio]

I am new to this forum. I have the exact vehicle (2003 Mountaineer V8 AWD) and the same noise as the OP. After much Googling, I kind of concluded that the sound is normal. But...????

I thought about this again last week when I was trying to pull a Jeep out of the mud. I was prepared for an easy job, but immediately noticed that the front wheels were not spinning, and I was getting very near to being stuck myself. My AWD system is not working. There do not seem to be any other symptoms, other than the same upper ball joint boots needing to be replaced, that the OP showed.

Questions:
1. Is the fact that the AWD is not working related to the ball joint problem?
2. If not, what is wrong with my AWD?

 

[747driver]

Stelvio

I replaced my rear wheel bearings in Oct. That cured all the road and tire noise. I always thought the Mounty AWD is full time. Now I could be wrong but the car is always in AWD mode. Thats why my gas mileage suffers alittle. I have also been told that the AWD doesn't engage until the transmission senses tire slippage ? I haven't had a problem with my AWD.

 

[fusseli]

For both the AWD and A4WD t-cases, tires MUST be close to the same size or you will tear up your t-case. I think that Ford says tire tread must be witnin 2/32" of eachother. I would get your tires all in the same size, there's a good chance the damage has already been done and your tcase will start binding up gradually over the next year (that's what mine did, got worse and worse over time).

AFIK, the clutch in the tcase can fail open OR closed. For the guy asking why his AWD doesn't work there could be chance your tcase's clutch has failed open. I think I also remember that the AWDs are a up to 60/40 power split when the viscous clutch is fully warmed up and engaged.