Right rear wheel not turning

[ronmichaelgaray]

Hey everybody. Hope someone can help me narrow down my problem. I have a 2005 Explorer XLT. Driveshaft yoke broke off at the rear diff leaving the flange still bolted on. Was still connected at the front. Loud rumbling and heavy vibrating prior to it dropping. At times it knocked violently when going into reverse. Not always. Very loud clunk sound when coming to a stop.
When the driveshaft dropped, I had stepped on the gas hard to cross a road and it happened right around the corner from my house. A neighbor strapped it to his pickup and towed me in reverse back to my parking stall. It rolled without any issue that I recall.
Fast forward to today. I remove the old drive shaft completely and find out that Dorman sends me a new one piece drive shaft assembly which is too short. Then I'm about to measure from the tranny opening to the rear diff opening and I discover that I can't turn the right rear tire. Pop the tire and brake look fine. Left rear turns, no unusual sounds.
I recall spinning the right rear tire when I changed out the rotor a few months back but it was making a clicking sound.
In short, what is a mystery to me is why the truck rolled smoothly in reverse for a few hundred yards. If the wheel is seized or axle not turning properly wouldn't I have felt the tire dragging or skipping? In a stock rear, would one rear wheel not spin with a disconnected drive shaft? Could the wheel seizing up break the yoke off clean? I'm thinking my rear or maybe just the axle is shot but I'm not sure that just installing a new drive shaft will be the cure. Thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Likely while just ignoring the issue of a failing drive system you’ve lunched something inside of the differential entirely. Time for a post mortem to see what you did.

 

[ronmichaelgaray]

Likely while just ignoring the issue of a failing drive system you’ve lunched something inside of the differential entirely. Time for a post mortem to see what you did.

While I appreciate the act of replying, I'm not so sure I have that same sentiment toward the message itself. And that goes for you as well Mr. Gator and the late comer Doctor. There is this thing called COVID - perhaps you've all heard of it. So let's not be so judgemental. Let's not use the word ignore. Necessity is a much better choice and ironically, not by choice.
I came to this forum looking for answers from knowledgeable folks like yourselves to the questions I had regarding my situation, without having to be specific about my personal life. An indictment was not what I had in mind.
In any event, as if what's going on isn't enough, I just had a development in the last hour and I have I have no clue what to make of it.
I put the truck in 4WD low to see if I could move it and save myself a tow if need be. I'm parked on a slight incline with chocks naturally. I was able to move forward for about 6 feet or so but I bucked forward a couple of times. It felt as if it would smoothen out after the 2nd buck each time but I didn't want to take it any further. I did this three separate times. Now comes the surprise. I couldn't get out of 4WD and tried a few things and I was finally able to do so after holding the 4WD button down for a few seconds. I was happy for that but that was short-lived. When I went to put in park I heard a nasty high pitched grinding sound and immediately put back to reverse. I tried again and heard the same. I turned the truck off in neutral and put in park. When I started the truck, everything was fine. Hoping that I resolved the issue I put in gear and then went back to park and the horrible sound was still there.
So, there you have it. Sounds like I'm kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place but I'm definitely open to some constructive replies. Hope to read a couple. Thanks and my apologies to any moderators for being a bit blunt.

 

[drdoom]

I'm afraid I can't tell you much about the rear differential, other than hearsay: a gentleman at the parts counter once expressed great disdain for the 3G rear differential, stating that they are highly prone to seizure. I haven't had any experience with this personally.
But I can tell exactly what caused the grinding upon shifting to park with the rear driveshaft removed. What you hear is the parking pawl. Without the driveshaft connected to the wheels and henceforth the road, there is nothing static to stop the remaining/residual/inherent rotation of the transmission output shaft. So when the transmission is shifted into park, the pawl is grinding as it tries to engage. Best wishes,
Doc
EDIT: The above mentioned absence of the rear driveshaft could also be the cause of the difficulty/inability shifting out of 4x4, because of the command hierarchy and related sensor arrays detecting a disparity between front & rear transfer case output shaft speeds. But you didn't mention whether were you using 4LOW or 4HIGH, that would make a difference, as the command hierarchy is different for each mode.

 

[Mbrooks420]

Weird. I’ve had zero issues maintaining any of my vehicles or equipment. So I guess there are no mechanics or auto stores where you are because of COVID?

You pushed something too far, and it bit you. Own it.

And, now trying to force it to move you’ve probably damaged it more trying to save a few dollars on a tow.

 

[drdoom]

Also I would take a look at the rear most universal joint, for forensic analysis, because the symptoms described prior to the failure are identical to a universal joint failure i.e. vibration & growling.
Just keep digging into it, you'll find the problem.
Look at the brake caliper for instance, make sure it's not seized. Parking brake too. Rear hub, etc. Raise the vehicle on a lift or jackstands, start disassembling the rear knuckle. You may find the problem there, hopefully your rear differential is still OK.

 

[boominXplorer]

You had rear end issues, something locked up and weakest link was the driveshaft so that broke. Now you need to fix the driveshaft AND what caused it to break. Getting in and hoping it will move and not make any noises is not going to happen, something is f*cked for it to snap the yoke!

Start by draining the rear axle and looking for metal. Take the big plug out and it will tell you what you need to know. Either your fine and you can fill it back up and move on to wheel bearing/ brakes or you need to tear the differential out and get another.

 

[boominXplorer]

The grinding noise is you trying to drive it with no rear driveshaft then trying to put it in park. If you had a driveshaft in it you wouldn't have this issue. You keep "trying this and that" without fixing what's already broken you will need way more than a driveshaft and whatever else is damaged. It could of just been a bad u joint that started this all. Disregarding the noise before actually getting it fixed already cost you $300 for a driveshaft vs $15 for a u joint.

 

[Gary Crist]

While working on some of those Italian "high-end" automobiles,
I discovered a secret "American Way".

If it jams, FORCE IT.
If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway!

 

[ronmichaelgaray]

Weird. I’ve had zero issues maintaining any of my vehicles or equipment. So I guess there are no mechanics or auto stores where you are because of COVID?

You pushed something too far, and it bit you. Own it.

And, now trying to force it to move you’ve probably damaged it more trying to save a few dollars on a tow.

Weird. I’ve had zero issues maintaining any of my vehicles or equipment. So I guess there are no mechanics or auto stores where you are because of COVID?

You pushed something too far, and it bit you. Own it.

And, now trying to force it to move you’ve probably damaged it more trying to save a few dollars on a tow.

First of all, many thanks to Dr. and Boomin. Your posts are exactly what I wanted to read. Technical stuff. Doc, your info on the parking pawl let's me focus on the rear. I couldn't find anything on the web so thank you very much for that. By the way, it was in 4WD LOW when I moved it.

As far as the resident judge and executioner, what can I say? This must be your way of saying COVID SCHMOVID, I have no money issues. Congratulations! I'm so happy to hear that the pandemic has not had a financial impact on you. Hopefully, you will never find yourself in that position. If you do, please don't forget me. But learn when to give something a break. I'm not happy about what happened. I'm not crying or whining about it. I've accepted the worse case scenario and expressed it. That qualifies as owning up. One time, you get a pass. Second time around, just delete the P and you see what's left. Own up to that. Have a nice day.

Once again, to the other two gentleman, (and the Italian car reference guy which was funny) many thanks and I'll use your info to help me figure out what I will or won't be able to do. Appreciate the time you guys took to write those posts.

 

[Mbrooks420]

I’ve been financially impacted. One more GREAT reason to fix something before it becomes MORE expensive.

My advice was very sound. Tear it apart. That’s the ONLY way to know what you’ve broken.

But, by all means. Put it in 4low and really go to town. I’m sure that’ll fix it. Maybe redline it and toss it into gear. That’ll loosen up whatever’s sticking in there.

And, thanks but no thanks. I don’t need your, or any one else’s pass.

 

[BKennedy]

The people who have answered your post really know what they are talking about. To continue driving a vehicle that is obviously having a driveline issue is asking for it to get bigger and more expensive. I do not understand why you have taken what was stated so personally. You have personally attacked two of the most helpful members here because you don't like how they said what they said. No one here is judging you, they were just stating simple facts. However, you sure were quick to pass judgement upon them. Mbrooks and BoominX can be a bit blunt (if you stick around a little longer you will appreciate the non-sugar coating some members here provide), but they had no ill will towards you until you took what they posted personally. These times have been hard on everyone.

I am sorry but I think you will have to tear into the rear axle to see what the damage is internally. The wheel locking up might be the emergency brake, which you should be able to disconnect. I am not familiar with that generation Explorer so I cannot add to this.

 

[94Eddie]

First of all, many thanks to Dr. and Boomin. Your posts are exactly what I wanted to read. Technical stuff. Doc, your info on the parking pawl let's me focus on the rear. I couldn't find anything on the web so thank you very much for that. By the way, it was in 4WD LOW when I moved it.

As far as the resident judge and executioner, what can I say? This must be your way of saying COVID SCHMOVID, I have no money issues. Congratulations! I'm so happy to hear that the pandemic has not had a financial impact on you. Hopefully, you will never find yourself in that position. If you do, please don't forget me. But learn when to give something a break. I'm not happy about what happened. I'm not crying or whining about it. I've accepted the worse case scenario and expressed it. That qualifies as owning up. One time, you get a pass. Second time around, just delete the P and you see what's left. Own up to that. Have a nice day.

Once again, to the other two gentleman, (and the Italian car reference guy which was funny) many thanks and I'll use your info to help me figure out what I will or won't be able to do. Appreciate the time you guys took to write those posts.

You came this place for advice. It isn't a buffet here of you selecting only the advice you desire and in the manner you desire it. Not matter if your issue is COVID19 or any other reason, continuing to drive a vehicle with a major drive train issue will almost always make the eventual repair more expensive. Especially for a 4WD vehicle. This is a good lesson to remember going forward and pointing it out is good advice you should take.

For your current situation, it is time to start tearing stuff apart and doing an autopsy of the damage done. There are any number of things that could be FUBARed and diagnosing via the internet at this point is just throwing excrement at a wall. I would jack up the rear end and turn the wheels and see what noises you hear and where they emanate from. Drain the rear differential and look for metal in the oil. If things check out then repeat the process with the front end. IMO, your best case scenario is the U-joint bound up and snapped the driveshaft but I think the chances of this happening is slim. The worst case scenario is the damage is so extensive the repair cost is worth more than the vehicle in which case I would look to replace it.

 

[drdoom]

OP, please keep us updated. Your findings will be helpful to many others who are in search of empirical knowledge.
Best wishes,
Doc

 

[Gary Crist]

May we see a pic of the broken parts?

 

[LMHmedchem]

The worst case scenario is the damage is so extensive the repair cost is worth more than the vehicle in which case I would look to replace it.

In this case, could you not look for a used rear differential from a junkyard? There are allot of good places in the southwest that have low rust parts available. There are some collectives where you can just email then and let them know what you re looking for. They distribute your request to a network of salvage yards. Shipping would be quite a bit if the yard is not close.

I might be inclined to look for a used differential and rebuild it. That might be less work than endless diagnosis. You would have to confirm that the problem is between the differential and the axle and not in the driveshaft.

LMHmedchem

 

[94Eddie]

In this case, could you not look for a used rear differential from a junkyard? There are allot of good places in the southwest that have low rust parts available. There are some collectives where you can just email then and let them know what you re looking for. They distribute your request to a network of salvage yards. Shipping would be quite a bit if the yard is not close.

I might be inclined to look for a used differential and rebuild it. That might be less work than endless diagnosis. You would have to confirm that the problem is between the differential and the axle and not in the driveshaft.

LMHmedchem

For me, other things would also come into play before I decided to spend a lot of money on a repair on a 3rd gen Explorer/Mountaineer. First would be the number of miles on it. This would indicate if a lot of other repairs are looming. Second would be if it has the SOHC V6 which means the 5R55 transmission is in it. With the history of timing chains/guides and transmission failure possibly looming, I would be hesitant to throw a lot of money into a major repair. Third would be the amount of rust present due to road salt etc. If it has a lot of corrosion underneath the chassis I would not spend much on major repairs. The OP lives in Maryland so odds are this isn't a concern unless he is in western Maryland. If he has the 4.6L V8 then it tilts some toward making the repair.

I had to weigh these decision a little over a year ago. I had 116k miles on a 2002 V8 XLT that needed a little over $2k in suspension repairs and it was due for a complete fluid swap. Overall it was in excellent condition except for the repairs. Even then, I weighed in the fact that a transmission replacement was probably needed before long and this with the other repairs exceeded its value. At this poit I decided the repair costs were better applied to a newer vehicle. I looked at used 5th gen Explorers and found out about the water pump problem which took them out of consideration. After some research I decided a 2009-2010 V8 Explorer/Mountaineer was my best choice due to the reliability track record of the 4.6L 3V engine and 6R80 transmission. I ended up buying a loaded 2010 V8 Mountaineer in excellent condition. So far, I think I made the right decision. I am not saying this is the best choice for everyone but it is worth heavily considering regarding any vehicle that is seeing repair costs exceeding, or approaching, its value.

 

[Mbrooks420]

The third Gen diffs are weak, I don’t know if I’d trust a junk yard rear. It’s not like a second Gen wher you slap the complete axle in.

 

[fireftr]

I’ve got an ‘05 4.6 4WD w/210k miles that I bought new. Have done all the maintenance/repair/replacements myself except for the specialized ones like trans rebuild, cylinder helicoil after a spark plug decided to eject, replacement driveshaft weights and rebalancing, after two weights flew off, rear axle bearings.
I heard, and still do hear slight grinding, humming from the rear diff. Heard they had issues with these: a problem with expansion and contraction between different materials, and excessive gear lash. I read where some guys had the pumpkin replaced for big $$$. I cringed thinking about that, so I drained the fluid (it wasn’t too bad), and refilled it with heavy duty gear lube. Did this about 5k ago, and I’m easy on it, and so far so good,
Addressing the original question, I’d have to agree that something broke in the rear end, locked up the right wheel, and caused the rear u joint to break.
It sucks, but like you guys said, hopefully he didn’t ruin/damage anything else by playing with it!
BTW, After reading those Covid comments, I was hoping it wouldn’t lead to a political confrontation, as way too many discussions do today!

 

[LMHmedchem]

For me, other things would also come into play before I decided to spend a lot of money on a repair on a 3rd gen Explorer/Mountaineer.

I think that all of us who still own these gen3s are in that place, so the point is well taken.

Just looking on ebay, you can get a used rear differential shipped for less than $300. You can probably do better at a local yard if you have one. If it needs work, a Timkin or SKF bearing and seal kit is less than $75, and the full rebuild kits are $100-$230. This suggests that you could have a rebuilt differential for less than $500 (plus allot of your own work). Though this $500 may very well be better spent on transportation that will be more reliable in the long term, it also may be that $500 is all there is to spend at the moment. If it gets you back on the road, back to work, back to the grocery store, etc, it still may be the right choice. It may, in fact, be the only choice. I always advise using high quality repair parts, but there are times when owners have to just use parts they can afford and hope the repair can get them through for now.

You can't buy much of a car for $500, though I did once buy a 1963 Dodge Dart for $50. It was almost worth it.

All that being said, there are some important points to consider with the rebuild approach.
- the problem may not be in the differential, but the axle, etc
- it looks like there are several different differentials, so you would have to be careful to get the right one
- the used part may have a defect that cannot be fixed with a rebuild kit
- this is a difficult repair to do in the driveway
- there is always the chance that you fix this and then find something else ($500 can quickly become $1000)
- other stuff I haven't thought of

I would hesitate to recommend that ronmichaelgaray just dive into a rebuild project without knowing quite a bit more, including his level of confidence in being able to complete that repair. Regardless, it may be the least expensive way to get back on the road.

LMHmedchem