Rumbling on decel... U-joints?

[gijoecam]

I've got a rumbling that just started happening... When I'm decelerating, say, from 75mph cruising and I let off the gas, when the torque converter unlocks, or if I lock out the OD, when I begin engine-braking at that speed, I get a low-pitched rumbling from something in the drivetrain. I first noticed it do it once and only once Friday, then a few times yesterday, and it did it regularly today. Here's what I've been able to figure out, and what I've checked:

-It's only noticeable at speeds of 60+mph
-it's only noticeable when coasting. It feels normal when accelerating.
-It's not a high-pitched gear-grinding noise, it's a definite rumble.
-Gear lube in the diff and transfer case fluid level is OK. Neither smells burnt.
-Neither the t-case output nor the diff pinion feels funny in any way that I can tell. No excessive slop, turns smoothly and freely with the driveshaft connected.
-Pinion does not have any play in it. It's not leaking (knock on wood) and seems to be in otherwise good condition. There does not seem to be any slop in it.
-The rear diff was serviced at 100,000 miles (50,000 miles ago). At that time, they drained and refilled it. The wear pattern looked good, and the gear lube looked fine.
-The axle bearings appear to be in good shape as well.. there's no slop up and down or front to back. I can hear the spline shifting around just a little bit in the spider gears, but I *think* that's pretty normal, isn't it?

I'm running on the original u-joints, and I'm thinking that with 150,000 miles on them, changing them would be a good idea anyways, but what else could it be? I'm stumped?

The only two things that come to mind are either a bum carrier bearing inside the diff (I haven't popped the cover yet) or the infamous transfer case shift rail bore issue (but it isn't a buzzing, definitely more of a rumbling...)... Any other ideas?

For now, the plan is to drop the driveshaft and swap out the u-joints at work tomorrow, and pop the cover tonight and see what's going on in there. I really don't want to have to rebuild the diff... Of course, maybe it's time for a TruTrac or Torsen!! I wonder if the Ranger's Torsen diff will fit my Ex?

 

[Bruces expo]

good luck with the fix , i had a simular problem when i first got my navajo , i replaced the U joint's on the rear driveshaft and i never noticed it again !!

 

[gijoecam]

Well, I got the shaft out, and removed all the snap rings (except one that left half in the groove... gotta remember that). Couldn't get the caps to budge though... Was whackin' on a socket with a 4-lb baby sledge to no avail. I've got a couple arbor presses at work I can use tomorrow... I'd rather do it that-a-way.

The joints feel decent for the most part. The rear joint half that is on the yoke that bolts to the diff pinion felt a little tight when I first took it apart. After a few whacks with the afore-mentioned hammer and socket, it seemed to move freely again, but I think that's just temporary. I'll be curious to see what the guts look like being that they're the originals.

Does anyone sell u-joints that aren't made in China? Advance, AutoZone, and Murrays (Checkers, Shucks, and Kragen's newest franchise chain) all carry made-in-China crap... Doesn't anyone sell Dana Spicer, TRW, or MOOG u-joints anymore? The originals lasted 150,000 miles... I'm half-tempted to reinstall OEM parts and call it good!

-Joe

 

[IZwack]

Does anyone sell u-joints that aren't made in China? Advance, AutoZone, and Murrays (Checkers, Shucks, and Kragen's newest franchise chain) all carry made-in-China crap... Doesn't anyone sell Dana Spicer, TRW, or MOOG u-joints anymore? The originals lasted 150,000 miles... I'm half-tempted to reinstall OEM parts and call it good!

Yeah most of the U-joints you're going to find are going to be made in China.

But if you can find a Dana/Spicer distributor around you, the part # you're lookng for is :
5-153X

That is Dana/Spicer's part # of the infamous "1310" series U-joint.
You can find local Dana/Spicer distributors here: http://www2.dana.com/expert/wc.dll?hvtss~spicerparts~locate_ld

 

[storlied]

I had this problem.. but it went away.. only happened on one drive, on a certain stretch of road... what do you suppose it was?

 

[IZwack]

I had this problem.. but it went away.. only happened on one drive, on a certain stretch of road... what do you suppose it was?

A baby polar bear, stick in you're spare tire area. :

[/hijack]

 

[storlied]

Damn polar bears... Wait.. dude.. no.. it was a penguin..

 

['97 V8]

I've got the same thing. I have a completely different axle and it still rumbles on decel. I'm replacing my 1350 u-joint tomorrow.

 

[gijoecam]

Yeah most of the U-joints you're going to find are going to be made in China.

But if you can find a Dana/Spicer distributor around you, the part # you're lookng for is :
5-153X

That is Dana/Spicer's part # of the infamous "1310" series U-joint.
You can find local Dana/Spicer distributors here: http://www2.dana.com/expert/wc.dll?hvtss~spicerparts~locate_ld

Awesome! The local distributor is right around the corner from Grainger, where I need to go for work today anyways! Joint Clutch and Gear is the name of the place... I've been wondering where they moved to for years! They used to be in a nasty place in Detroit, but moved apparently... Great shop, and they know their stuff. They have the greasable 1310s on the shelf for $12.03.

Oh, and I finished pressing it apart... No way in heck I would've been able to pound them apart last night... The yoke on the axle end of the driveshaft was VERY tight... I didn't think the 3-ton press was going to do it. I found one of the caps on the axle end u-joint doesn't turn very free, although the grease inside seems to be in good shape.

Hopefully I'll have it back together later today. Got my fingers crossed...

-Joe

 

[gijoecam]

5-153X

That is Dana/Spicer's part # of the infamous "1310" series U-joint.
You can find local Dana/Spicer distributors here:

Afraid not, Mr. Senator... According to Dana's application guide, they're a 5-213X, which translates to a 1330, not a 1310. The physical dimensions are the same for both of them, but the 1310 comes with a pair of internal and a pair of external snap rings, along with four grooved caps for internal snap rings. The 1330 I need comes with all smooth caps (all external snap rings) and, therefore, the hardware kit includes four external snap rings. The guy at Joint, Clutch, and Gear even thought that was the wrong one... I wish I had listened to him...

Back up to the parts store...

-Joe

 

[Nocturnall]

Oooooh IZWack drops the ball. Think I'm gonna do this too I got a slight vibration when decelerating and on the highway above 70.

 

[IZwack]

Sorry for misguiding you but Whoa now I'm lost.

From everything I used to know (key word "used"):

The 1310 is same thing as the 1330 except the 1330 has an overall larger joint diameter -- but exactly the same cap diameter. So their physical dimensions are not exactly the same.

Dana does this "stepping" algorythm such that:
1330 is the same as 1310 except with the same joint diameter, but same cap diameter
1350 is the same as 1330 except it has a larger cap diameter, but same joint diameter
1410 is the same as 1350 except it has a larger joint diameter, but same cap diameter
1480 is the same as 1410 except it h as a larger cap diameter, but same joint diameter


Sources

Dana Propshaft website (bottom of the page):
http://dana.com/Automotive_Systems/Products/Auto Products/propshaft.aspx

PBB (halfway down the page):
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/

4-Wheeler's Bible (bottom of page 142):
http://books.google.com/books?id=ty...ts=EvFGl283EG&sig=VY-csrYlIEhsEqSyQLuCgGTKFZE

Action Macine Inc:
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/multipiecedriveshaftguide.aspx

 

[IZwack]

Continued...

Proof that the 5-153X is 1310:

Dana 5-153X spec page:
http://www2.dana.com/Expert/wc.dll?hvtss~dedsec~4~5-153X~

Action Machine Inc:
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/5-153xu-joint.aspx

 

[IZwack]

Proof that the U-joints in the Explorer are 1310s:

EF:
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums//archive/index.php/t-134141.html
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums//archive/index.php/t-147676.html

NorthernAuto:
http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=16655

Maybe we've been wrong all along

 

[IZwack]

Hmm.. upon more digging, I'm starting to think you're right, the rear U-joints are 1330s.

If you're right, which you probably are, we're going to have to make it clear to everyone knows that the rear is 1330s (sticky thread) because maan, I think I put 1310s in the 8.8 (when I still had an 8.8).

 

[gijoecam]

Continued...

Proof that the 5-153X is 1310:

Dana 5-153X spec page:
http://www2.dana.com/Expert/wc.dll?hvtss~dedsec~4~5-153X~

Action Machine Inc:
http://www.actionmachineinc.com/5-153xu-joint.aspx

I don't know what to tell you partner... The 1310s are 3.2190 across the caps, and my old ones physically measure 3.630, which are close enough to the 3.6250 Dana calls out in their specs for the 1330. The 1310s aren't even close.

If you go to the Dana web site, http://www2.dana.com/expertforms/dek350.aspx

Then use the drill-downs to select a 1998 Ford Explorer 4wd, it calls for a 5-213X, which is a 1330.

I think you may be looking at Dana's picture backwards... I need the REAR u-joints... Look at the transfer case input in their sketch... (wish I could do a screen-shot)

-Joe

 

[gijoecam]

Just thinking... are you sure you're not confusing the fronts and the rears? I'm working on the rears...

 

[IZwack]

Just thinking... are you sure you're not confusing the fronts and the rears? I'm working on the rears...

I was thinknig of the rears too. I was under the impression that all U-joints were 1310s (except for the non-double cardan CV). Obviously this is wrong. Tonight when I get home (who's skipping class? oh I am), I will go back through those EF threads I posted earlier and make a note so that future readers dont mistakenly put 1310s in the rear driveshaft.

 

[gijoecam]

I will go back through those EF threads I posted earlier and make a note so that future readers dont mistakenly put 1310s in the rear driveshaft.

LOL That'd be a tough one to do... They're like 3/8" shorter than the ones that'll come out of 'em... Anyone that knows anything should notice that right away! (At least I would hope so)... But if anyone has 'em in their tool box waiting for trail-side carnage, they're going to be sorely disappointed... At least they'll have extras for the front.

-Joe

 

[gijoecam]

Partial update: Got the joints changed out at work, took it home and installed it. It took all of 1/2 hour to get the shaft in and get everything cleaned up, and in that time, we got an inch of sleet topped with another two inches of snow!! So, I couldn't get it over 50 mph on the freeway... Hopefully they'll have the roads cleaned-up and I can check things out on my way to work this morning. (I'd already be there, but I have to go visit a shop that's shipping us a new machine today)

I'll let ya' know if it's gone or not....

-Joe