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Running issues

sirhk100

Explorer Addict
Joined
December 19, 2000
Messages
1,776
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City, State
las vegas
Year, Model & Trim Level
'91
So, last week started stumbling on some problems.

'91, 4.0, manual trans, all stock.

Initial startup when cold has been fine. Last week I drove about 8 miles home from work so engine was up and running at full temp. All seemed great. I parked, ran inside a dry cleaner to grab a shirt and hopped back in. Couple minutes at the most. Crank it up and it sputters, pops, barely runs. Reminded me of when my fuel pump was going out less then a year ago. I shut it off and try again. Same thing, barely idles, running like absolute crap. Not running good enough to remotely drive. Finally it pops, sputters and dies. I hop out and pop the hood. Check for the usual vacuum plug that I loose on occasion. Check connections here and there. All good... WTF??? Hop back in and it fires right up like nothing is wrong.

I'm at a grocery store parking lot basically and need to run into the grocery store. Now that it's running I move it further out into the parking lot by itself so that in case it doesn't start I could walk home, get my van and car trailer and recover it much easier then where it's parked in the front row spot. I run into the store, come out 10 minutes later. Fires right up... All good.




Next morning, I hop in to head to work about 6:30AM. fires up perfect. Drive 8 miles or so to work and swing by the minimart around the corner to grab a soda before work. I'm in there maybe 2 minutes. Come back out, same thing, cranks up, sputters, pops, runs like absolute crap. I shut it off... Let it sit for about a minute, fires right up and runs perfectly!



That was early last week... Fast forward to yesterday at lunch. It's been sitting for 4 hours so good and cold. I head off to lunch and it fires right up. I drive it maybe 3 miles. Park, hop out, walk maybe 10' and decide I don't want to eat there. Hop back in, this time it just cranks and cranks and cranks. I give it 3 solid tries cranking probably a solid 5 seconds each time and it doesn't fire at all.

Screw it, guess I'm eating there... Walk in grab a bite, walk out maybe 10 minutes later and it fires right up. I drive back to work, shut if off for about 30 seconds and then try again. Fires right up.

Yesterday after work, again, drive home, pull in my drive. Let it sit about 15 seconds. Fires right up...


I did put a new fuel pump in it about 9 months ago. While it's new, it is just an autozone piece so won't rule that out. I also was not able to replace the fuel filter at that point. I had the tool to release the prongs but just had no luck and rather then damaging crap I just said screw it and left it. This weekend I'm going to get the filter replaced one way or another. I have no clue how old the filter on the expo currently is.


"If" I can get the darn thing to stumble in my driveway I'll check fuel pressure but so far it just threatens me when I'm not home... Fuel pump and filter are my first thoughts only cause it's running very similar to when the pump last was failing.



Any other ideas/thoughts though that I should look into?
 



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It's the temp sensor for the PCM

The one "near" The housing for the PCM looks like this.

It is a bad Temp sensor.
getimage1_zps781cd8f5.jpg

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=951148&cc=1119631

Been here, done that already on the 94.

Flooding because the PCM "thinks" the engine is cold... .

There are (2) sensors, so make sure you change the one that has a cone on the end of it, next to the thermostat housing.
 






Huh, I'll have to pop the hood this evening and see where that thing is at. I can probably pull one out of the junkyard for a buck or three and be on my way.
 






If you can get it to run long enough to get off the fast idle, rich, cold start program it will just run like there is nothing wrong.

Sound familiar?
 






$15 at the AP store. Part is still in use so it's an "on the shelf" item.
 






It's only done it to me 3 times so far over about the last week and a half so I'm not 100% sure what the exact symptoms are yet. It's started up and ran great every other time. For as long as I've owned it, it's always started up a bit rough for about the first 10-15 seconds and then cleans right up. Either way, I'll give that a shot. I've got a BIG wheeling trip planned with it next weekend and I'm a bit on edge about it right now cause of this. I'll probably swap out this sensor tomorrow afternoon hopefully and just keep driving it till I'm comfy with it again.
 






Don't forget to disconnect the battery.

So the PCM will have to re-learn.
 






Awesome! Thanks for the heads up and noted on the battery disconnect... Guess I have a small project to knock out tomorrow evening.
 






[MENTION=87244]gmanpaint[/MENTION] saved me such a hassle on this one.

Popped it in there and presto! runs like a new engine.

Mine started out intermittent as well, and I had just replaced the fuel pump! so I could have been pull'n my hair out trying to diagnose.

This thing will only throw a code if it is dead short or open.
 






If I ever get the same symptoms again, I'll through in the spare I bought before I do any further trouble shooting.

Kinda hinky that it has to be a total fail before any fault codes..

Can't complain though the original lasted 19 years.
 






LOL, that's the thing with my exploder... Mechanically it's in great shape. The motor and trans are actually very low mileage and relatively new being crate replacements. It's all the crap that's attached to them and still from '91 that I'm chasing down and constantly dealing with. Oh well, joys of owning an older vehicle and that's why I have a second vehicle that also happens to be capable of towing. LOL Beats having a car payment and being in debt still!
 






Mine hasn't left me stranded.

That is one good thing about the "really" wide tolerances on the electronics, you can have multiple failures and the thing is still derivable.
 






Yep. That sensor failing, has cost others a lot of expenses throwing parts at it, and shop fees running down the problem.

Cheap part, easy fix once you know about it. :)
 






Yep. That sensor failing, has cost others a lot of expenses throwing parts at it, and shop fees running down the problem.

Cheap part, easy fix once you know about it. :)

Much love your way Dude! :notworthy
 






Well... Swapped out that sensor on Thurs evening with a new one from the parts store and then last night it still did it. Today I'm going to try and force it to do it again. Basically I'm going to drive around a bit to get it warm and then see if I can duplicate it at my house finally. I'm going to hook a fuel pressure gauge up to it first though so hopefully if I can get it to stumble again I can have that ready to check out.
 












No worries, just gotta get it figured out. I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge to it so next time it does it I want to pop the hood quickly and see what that's reading. To me, it seems almost like it's starving for fuel when it does it.
 






Hmm. Okay, if your game......

Other issues I have found is a bad fuel pump relay. Still working, but not at full capacity. The heat over the years sometimes weakens the PWDB (power distribution box) wires to the relays. When that happens the relays slowly burn up. Look under the PWDB for bad wires, under the actual relays for signs of heat turning them slightly brown. A new relay for the pump with a lifetime warranty is around $15. If it goes bad again from heat issue, simply get another.

If the relay is not putting out full power to the pump, the pump will run, but not at capacity. The result is the engine starves for fuel when running. The hotter the relay, the lower the fuel pressure. Make sense?
 






I love a good mystery!

er - uh when it's not mandatory reading.. ... ..

Intermittent problems can be such a pain.

I'm with gman on this still, sounds like an electrical issue.
 



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I have also seen many people trouble shoot their face off, only to find that their first thought was the correct one.

BAD FUEL PUMP.
 






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