Shopping around for a SUV, suggestions please?

[MikB]

So going by that, for 2016, the only reasonably priced SUVs that are off-road capable are the various Jeeps and the 4Runner. That's it. No more Xterra, no more FJ Cruiser. It is pretty shocking.

I'm afraid that's about the size of it. For my money, if I was looking for an off road capable rig, one, I already have one in my Ranger and two, if I was looking at an SUV for that criteria, the choices are slim anymore and I have no interest in the current offerings. So, it's a used SUV of which you may have no idea in it's reliability or a new SUV with the same, questionable, reliability. Also, depending on the type load you want to haul, the choice may be even more slim. I can't offer any suggestions that haven't already been offered here, in this thread.

Except:

Have you considered the possibility of towing a jeep or similar behind an Explorer or similar and camping outside the 'off road jungle', using a jeep for that part? Since I have my Ranger, this is a possibility I could go for if the need came about. I would simply rent a car trailer for this possible alternative. My truck weighs about 4000 lbs., so it would be well within it's towing capacity. A jeep would be much less weight I expect.

 

[2TimingTom]

I think before you can move forward, you need to give an honest assessment as to what will the off-roading consist of where you are planning to go.

I caution you though, at least for me, off roading is a bit addictive. Take a look at the progression of my build registry. It started out all low key and mellow and I stated that the build registry wouldn't serve as a hardcore build log but instead just maintenance and camping adventures. Then I went 4wheeling. And now it sits roughly 8-10 inches higher than when I started.

 

[scarpi]

The bests solution to the issue is a new Explorer with the factory towing package towing this.........

http://tomcar.com/

These were built for the military and will go anywhere. The new Explorer will tow 5000 lbs, so tow one of these to the trailhead while you drive in comfort in your new Explorer. I think the 15 inches of ground clearance and skid plates will work just fine most places.

 

[colintrax]

Distaste for Toyotas? WHy?



My wife would never accept a pickup. As to used, I'm worried about reliability.

I think toyotas are over rated. Nothing wrong with them per say, but they aren't worth the money they sell for. And they cost more to fix. And they rust, bad. I can find 2010 toyotas with more rust than my 97 explorer.
Feel free to search my username and toyota if you really wanna see how I feel lol

What is it about a truck your wife is against? The only differences between my 97 explorer and my brothers 2000 ranger is his truck is a tad longer. And my "bed" has a top and carpet. All of the offroad capable SUVS are truck based.

By all means buy new. Just know, every brand makes lemons. I would know

 

[jonredcorn]

Interesting post jonredcorn. I had a 2014 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 (not the Grand Cherokee) and it constantly was at the dealer for issues (some serious, some not). I got tired of rough shifting and constant transmission software updates where Chrysler was trying software fixes to smooth out the transmission. Sometimes it would shift so hard that my wife told me she thought she got hit from behind. So at 6,200 miles I traded it in for my Explorer. Now no more transmission problems and just smooth sailing. After my 2014 Cherokee experience, there was no way I was going to buy a Grand Cherokee even though it is more off road capable than the Explorer. I'll just have to choose my trails more carefully and stick to gravel and dirt roads in the forest.

What you experienced is exactly what everyone else had. The transmission problems were mostly with the Jeep Cherokee and Jeep Grand Cherokee with the new 9-speed automatic transmissions... and more recently their Renegade. This is the exact reason why I didn't end up with the Jeep and your last two sentences are exactly how i feel! haha!!!!

Sorry to hear you had to put up that crap and had to trade in the Jeep so soon. That is really a shame.

 

[jonredcorn]

Make no mistake. Ford knows what it is doing from a marketing standpoint. These are being called CUV's - crossover utility vehicles.

Yes, on this forum we have some previous gen. Ex owners who take their offroad seriously, but in terms of sales, it is a very small percentage.

The vast majority of people who own a traditional 4x4 SUV or AWD CUV will never go offroad. 4x4 SUV's started selling bigtime in the '80's because people like the *idea of a tough looking SUV as opposed to a feminine station wagon. Woman even liked the SUV's what with women's lib and I can't tell you how many women have told me they like sitting high over the road.

Since the Ex is now sold to soccer mom's and dad's who don't want to look wimpy, yet never goes offroad with the vast majority off owners, what Ford has done makes perfect sense.

They have given it a car chassis so it handles more like a car than a truck for everyday road driving. They have still kept it kind of tough/SUV looking so you feel you have a tough vehicle when it is no different than an Acadia or Highlander that have a less aggressive look.

And it has worked. Ford is selling a ton of Ex's. AWD is excellent for slick rainy conditions and for those where it snows. I have had no probs in 8 inches of snow with the Ex.

It meets all the needs to the typical driver - and especially families with kids - though a minivan is till more practical with 3 or 4 kids and storage in the back, but a minivan truly is wimpy looking compared to an Ex.

My sister has three kids. Looked at the Ex. Not enough rear cargo space with three rows and third row is small in the Ex. Got an Odyssy. Very practical. Still unsightly. Now my brother-in-law has a nice high end Acura sedan he is happy with. My sister was so perturbed with the minivan concept though she knew she needed it, she convinced him to get a brand new Jeep Wrangler as a fun car. Roof can go down. 4 doors so the kids can fit in if they don't have to haul a lot of stuff. Minivan still gets a lot of use for vacation with all the stuff you haul and for shopping with the kids/taking them to sporting events where they need to bring equipment, but for a trip out to dinner or to see friends, the family jumps in the Wrangler. A lot cooler than a minivan.

And that's what Ford is trying to do with the Ex. Not make it seem like a minivan or even a crossover - though it is - while giving everyday driving appeal. And it's not a minivan. Does not have the cargo space with the ability to take seats out. Ex does have AWD making it better in slick/snowy conditions. Ex looks like a traditional SUV so you feel like you have something more rugged, though it is no longer a true 4x4 SUV. It's a CUV.

Spot on. You said it better than I did.

 

[Justanothername]

I'm afraid that's about the size of it. For my money, if I was looking for an off road capable rig, one, I already have one in my Ranger and two, if I was looking at an SUV for that criteria, the choices are slim anymore and I have no interest in the current offerings. So, it's a used SUV of which you may have no idea in it's reliability or a new SUV with the same, questionable, reliability. Also, depending on the type load you want to haul, the choice may be even more slim. I can't offer any suggestions that haven't already been offered here, in this thread.

Except:

Have you considered the possibility of towing a jeep or similar behind an Explorer or similar and camping outside the 'off road jungle', using a jeep for that part? Since I have my Ranger, this is a possibility I could go for if the need came about. I would simply rent a car trailer for this possible alternative. My truck weighs about 4000 lbs., so it would be well within it's towing capacity. A jeep would be much less weight I expect.

Did you just say..tow a jeep with your explorer for offroading? lmao!


For my .02$, when we were deciding on an SUV, I also looked at the market for an everyday comfortable yet off-road capable SUV. With some of the SUV's it seemed dumb to me that I would still have to get a cargo carrier with the 3rd row up. What if I wanted to go to Costco with the family? Others I tested just weren't comfortable. For cargo space with 3 row seating, off road capabilities, gas mileage the explorer was the overall best choice.

I keep hearing its an "AWD minivan". I guess that is a put down to the Terrain Management System? Which is the same as the Range Rover, right? Having a 4wd 5th Gen, it works really good for me. In normal drive mode on the streets, when I take off from a stop the power is distributed to all the wheels. Once I am moving, it transitions to the front. I am actually fine with that for driving around town. Especially, if it gets me better gas mileage.
For off-road capability, the terrain management works great. When its in the offroad modes the power stays distributed to all the wheels. Yes, the explorer is not a rock crawler. For me, living in the desert it has performed great off-road. It has taking me to where I needed to go without issues. Not to mention, I made a wrong turn once and got into some pretty deep, soft sand. I was definitely worried about getting stuck. I put it in Sand mode and wow, engineering did a great job. I drove through it like it was nothing.
So for me, overall the 5th Gen explorer is able to achieve above average points compared to competition. Comfortable on long road trips, quite smooth ride on the street, enough space for a family larger then 5, enough cargo space without needing an ugly roof carrier thing, ability to hit the trail and get you to your hidden fishing hole or favorite biking spot. And when you and the wife are meeting friends for dinner, you're arriving in a well rounded luxury SUV then the minivan resembling or gas guzzling luxury SUV's your friends fell for.

 

[FooBar]

I think before you can move forward, you need to give an honest assessment as to what will the off-roading consist of where you are planning to go.

I live ~4 hours away from several national parks: Lassen, Yosemite, Sequoia/Kings Canyon. Death Valley and Crater Lake national parks are also within reach. So my off-roading will likely take place in these places.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a full-time 4WD system (as in the 4Runner Limited) is just as good as an cross-over AWD system for snow/slush driving.

I caution you though, at least for me, off roading is a bit addictive. Take a look at the progression of my build registry. It started out all low key and mellow and I stated that the build registry wouldn't serve as a hardcore build log but instead just maintenance and camping adventures. Then I went 4wheeling. And now it sits roughly 8-10 inches higher than when I started.

This is extreme off-roading. I can see myself getting into it at some point.

 

[FooBar]

For me, living in the desert it has performed great off-road. It has taking me to where I needed to go without issues. Not to mention, I made a wrong turn once and got into some pretty deep, soft sand. I was definitely worried about getting stuck. I put it in Sand mode and wow, engineering did a great job. I drove through it like it was nothing.

Interesting. What kind of desert driving did you do? Would you be able, say, to handle the rough roads in the Mojave desert?

 

[FooBar]

I think toyotas are over rated. Nothing wrong with them per say, but they aren't worth the money they sell for. And they cost more to fix. And they rust, bad. I can find 2010 toyotas with more rust than my 97 explorer.

I'm sure they're over-rated. I know about the rust problems in the Tacomas.

However, if you want an off-road vehicle and you can't afford a Range Rover or a Mercedes G-class, what are you going to buy? A Jeep? Way too un-reliable.

 

[MikB]

Did you just say..tow a jeep with your explorer for offroading? lmao!


For my .02$, when we were deciding on an SUV, I also looked at the market for an everyday comfortable yet off-road capable SUV. With some of the SUV's it seemed dumb to me that I would still have to get a cargo carrier with the 3rd row up. What if I wanted to go to Costco with the family? Others I tested just weren't comfortable. For cargo space with 3 row seating, off road capabilities, gas mileage the explorer was the overall best choice.

I keep hearing its an "AWD minivan". I guess that is a put down to the Terrain Management System? Which is the same as the Range Rover, right? Having a 4wd 5th Gen, it works really good for me. In normal drive mode on the streets, when I take off from a stop the power is distributed to all the wheels. Once I am moving, it transitions to the front. I am actually fine with that for driving around town. Especially, if it gets me better gas mileage.
For off-road capability, the terrain management works great. When its in the offroad modes the power stays distributed to all the wheels. Yes, the explorer is not a rock crawler. For me, living in the desert it has performed great off-road. It has taking me to where I needed to go without issues. Not to mention, I made a wrong turn once and got into some pretty deep, soft sand. I was definitely worried about getting stuck. I put it in Sand mode and wow, engineering did a great job. I drove through it like it was nothing.
So for me, overall the 5th Gen explorer is able to achieve above average points compared to competition. Comfortable on long road trips, quite smooth ride on the street, enough space for a family larger then 5, enough cargo space without needing an ugly roof carrier thing, ability to hit the trail and get you to your hidden fishing hole or favorite biking spot. And when you and the wife are meeting friends for dinner, you're arriving in a well rounded luxury SUV then the minivan resembling or gas guzzling luxury SUV's your friends fell for.

Why yes, yes I did say that maybe towing a jeep, or similar, to the 'off road jungle' may be an alternative answer. And, yes, the 5th generation Explorer is one step above a minivan. I also have one plus, a Ranger 4x4. Totally different configurations. By the way, taking what I said out of context tells me you have not read the full conversation on the OP's subject.

Have you looked underneath your Explorer lately? If it's like mine , it also has all kinds of things that could get smashed going over even moderate rough terrain. It also only has 8 inches of clearance although you could get a lift kit and add another 2 and 1/2 inches. Light duty off roading is about the new Explorer's speed and not much more. About what you described in your thread. Plus, there are no recommended off road tires available for the Ex. Doesn't mean you couldn't get them. If you have the 18 inch rims, you could by pass the recommendations and get a set of Silent Guards or other. But, the bottom line is, using the Ex for anymore than sand or uneven, light, off road surfaces may be asking for trouble. I just hope you don't squash the exposed A/C pipes running underneath your rig. Good luck!

 

[2TimingTom]

I live ~4 hours away from several national parks: Lassen, Yosemite, Sequoia/Kings Canyon. Death Valley and Crater Lake national parks are also within reach. So my off-roading will likely take place in these places.

I'm not familiar with these places as I have to drive by tons of premium 4wheel drive areas to get there. One day though.

But I know some people that did several days in Death Valley this spring. The routes they were on they needed their ground clearance and low range transfer cases.

I'm not sure on the new 4Runner but I believe it has a low range transfer case.

 

[FooBar]

I'm not familiar with these places as I have to drive by tons of premium 4wheel drive areas to get there. One day though.

But I know some people that did several days in Death Valley this spring. The routes they were on they needed their ground clearance and low range transfer cases.

I'm not sure on the new 4Runner but I believe it has a low range transfer case.

Thanks. You mean this?

http://www.toyota.com/configurator/#!/build/step/model/year/2016/series/4runner/grade/SR5

Lever-Type Transfer Case Allows you to quickly select from 2WD, 4WD or low range.

 

[2TimingTom]

Yep. Low range opens up a lot of doors to you while offroading. The extra torque it gives you allows you to climb steep hills without overworking the transmission, go downhills without using as much brake and just generally go more places. It doesn't give you magical traction or extra ground clearance, but it's nice to have.

The 5th gen system I don't think it gives you that additional gearing. It does some stuff with the ABS and throttle sensitivity but there isn't any gear multiplication like in a true 2 speed transfer case.

 

[colintrax]

I'm sure they're over-rated. I know about the rust problems in the Tacomas.

However, if you want an off-road vehicle and you can't afford a Range Rover or a Mercedes G-class, what are you going to buy? A Jeep? Way too un-reliable.

Any older SUV or a pick up lol
I wouldn't wheel a range rover or mercedes.

 

[2TimingTom]

A Jeep is too unreliable to offroad? What? About 90% of the rigs I see 4wheeling are Jeeps. Mostly Wranglers. Mostly newer TJs and JKs. A few Cherokees: XJs, WJs and WKs. That remaining 10% is mostly Toyotas (Tacos and 80 series Land Cruisers) with a small sprinkling of Ford, Chevy, Land Rover fighting for the last 1%.

I've done over 50 unique trails and some individual trails multiple times. I've seen a grand total of 3 other Explorers. And only 1 of those wasn't already in the group I was in.

 

[Rubberhead]

A Jeep is too unreliable to offroad?

He meant to say 'Jeep is too unreliable to on-road'. That's why Jeep owners run in packs so there's always a few left over to get everyone home.

 

[JerryC]

This might help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzeyXvCcBpw

My takeaway from this is that the Ex can go over some pretty rough roads if you go slow enough. The problem I have with it is that going .5mph you aren't getting anywhere in a reasonable time. Also the stress over wondering when you are going scrape or worse on a rock will wear you out quickly.

Something with ground clearance turns that stressful inch by inch traveling into a joy ride, as shown by the old Toyota.

You can joke about Jeeps, and I certainly did, but for the money you cant beat them for off roading in new vehicles for the price.

After tiring of waiting for Ford to build something can go offroad like the old body on frame explorer I bought a 2dr Wrangler as replacement for our 96 Bronco.

The Jeep experience is amazing. When you drive a Jeep, Jeep people wave at you, that's cute. When you break down Jeep people stop to help just because you have a Jeep and that is amazing. We haven't had breakdown, our experience was on the test drive. During the test drive we pulled over to switch drivers and along comes a Jeep and he stops to see if we are OK! I think at that moment is when the wife decided we were buying a Jeep.

FWIW, our jeep has cheap dealer installed leveling kit and 35" mud tires. I had to take 500 mile trip one-way out of town in it. I thought it was going to a problem going highway speeds in it but nope it did just fine. It isn't the luxury cruiser that the Ex is but was fine in every way except MPG, 15MPG at 70mph.

I'm not hating on the Ex, just trying to say that if I was going to take trip like you show in Death Valley, I'd take the Jeep. For the worst of conditions on a real road, the Ex is my choice for safety hands down over the Jeep, on ice and snow the Ex is like a mountain goat.

One other thing comes to mind and I think it has been mentioned in this thread. Tires, if you decide to take the Ex consider getting tires that are more puncture resistant and have a plan to fix a flat in the dirt. If you don't have a full size spare, you'll want to get one of those as well.

 

[peterk9]

There is talk that Ford may bring back the Bronco.

Peter

 

[FooBar]

He meant to say 'Jeep is too unreliable to on-road'. That's why Jeep owners run in packs so there's always a few left over to get everyone home.

Right. I need a reliable family (2 young kids) SUV with off-road and snow capability. Jeeps are awesome off-road, but from what I hear, not so reliable mechanically.