Slow Crank to No Crank, charged Battery

[Jerzey]

I'm reviving my old 00 Explorer Sport 4x4 to give to my son. After sitting for 5 years, I've moved it into the garage and started going through the motions after a no start issue.

Fuel Pump was my first culprit.
Replaced with fuel filter (and what feels like 100s of other headaches) and new IAC valve (old one had given me trouble before). On first startup, it will rev up really high (around 2500-3k) and then drop quickly to a stall. Start it again right after, and it will rev up high and then stabilize. Figured the computer was in process of relearning possibly, but was driving fine and idling just great while driving.

So, I parked it last night and told my son it's almost ready.
This morning, I went to start it and it chugged pretty slow (it was cold last night, but not horrible).
Sounded like the battery would be a bit dead. So I threw it on the charger (It's a brand new battery, but was starting fine yesterday). After a couple hours on charge, it would crank, but still a bit slow. And then quickly dropped to a very week lump over to a no crank.

Rolled it back into the garage. Battery checks out even at 12 volts. Cables aren't hot.

I read the tech doc. Battery good, TPS good. Haven't checked voltage drop around. But I'm going to assume it's probably safe to say at 175k and sitting for 5 years, it's probably the starter. Also noticed that the dome front dome light isnt on anymore (rear cargo is when door is open) and battery voltage on the gauge shows just between low and middle when the voltmeter connected shows 12v. Makes me thing there is a corroded ground somewhere.

Anything else I should look at when I go to replace it? Where are the main starting circuit grounds located so I can clean them up. The whole undercarriage is awfully rusty and I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to look at all the locations.

 

[puzzaa]

Location of factory ground?

That thread should give you some ideas on where the factory grounding sites would me (the frame, firewall, etc.) If its been sitting a while rust could have corroded it definitely. Check the starter, the wires, and around it, it could be bad from sitting there for so long and no being in use (on the first startup did it crank normally?). It could be just because it was cold and it was sitting it caused the starter to struggle. I'm not too knowledgeable with electrical systems haha.

Also, since it has been sitting a while I would advise fresh fuel and a can or two of seafoam. Not sure if you did that, but if you had fuel sitting in there from before, it will not be good running it through your engine. Dump a can of seafoam in a full tank and let it sit in there. Once you get it to crank enough to start let it run for a bit, make sure the alternator is charging the battery and just let it idle for a while. If you want to really clean out the engine disconnect the brake booster hose and let the engine suck in a half a can or full can of seafoam. if it stalls, let the seafoam sit in the pistons for a bit to clean out any crude. And yes you will have lots of smoke pouring out of your exhaust for a while (especially a whole can). I believe thats just the seafoam and carbon/crude buildup being cleaned. I dump half a can in my tank and half a can into the engine every so often to clean it out.

Also new spark plugs/checking the spark would be useful.

 

[Jerzey]

Location of factory ground?

That thread should give you some ideas on where the factory grounding sites would me (the frame, firewall, etc.) If its been sitting a while rust could have corroded it definitely. Check the starter, the wires, and around it, it could be bad from sitting there for so long and no being in use (on the first startup did it crank normally?). It could be just because it was cold and it was sitting it caused the starter to struggle. I'm not too knowledgeable with electrical systems haha.

Also, since it has been sitting a while I would advise fresh fuel and a can or two of seafoam. Not sure if you did that, but if you had fuel sitting in there from before, it will not be good running it through your engine. Dump a can of seafoam in a full tank and let it sit in there. Once you get it to crank enough to start let it run for a bit, make sure the alternator is charging the battery and just let it idle for a while. If you want to really clean out the engine disconnect the brake booster hose and let the engine suck in a half a can or full can of seafoam. if it stalls, let the seafoam sit in the pistons for a bit to clean out any crude. And yes you will have lots of smoke pouring out of your exhaust for a while (especially a whole can). I believe thats just the seafoam and carbon/crude buildup being cleaned. I dump half a can in my tank and half a can into the engine every so often to clean it out.

Also new spark plugs/checking the spark would be useful.

It started fine after i replaced the fuel pump. It cranks okay on the first turn of the key, but quickly slows down. Like really within 10 seconds and it's to a crawl. Now it doesn't start at all. It will sputter just a hair on the first crank, but then nothing.

I drained the fuel when I pulled the tank, and put a fresh 5 gallons in it with additive anyhow.
Got to get it started before I do anything else.

I don't want to just replace the starter for no reason. So I thought maybe taking apart all of the connections first and putting them back together might give it new life.

 

[koda2000]

Cars don't like to sit (especially for 5 years outside). At this point it could be the starter is bad. If you've got a good battery and good cable connections (on both ends) the starter may have eaten itself up after sitting so long, just like the fuelp ump motor did.

 

[Jerzey]

Cars don't like to sit (especially for 5 years outside). At this point it could be the starter is bad. If you've got a good battery and good cable connections (on both ends) the starter may have eaten itself up after sitting so long, just like the fuelp ump motor did.

It does crank over, its just within seconds that it starts to slow. It's not starting though as of this morning is what concerns me.

 

[J_C]

Seems like a weak battery to me. Immediately after it starts slow cranking and you've stopped trying, I would take a voltage measurement... should be up near 12.6V.

You wrote 12V but is that 12.6V or 12.0V? You can also measure voltage while someone else is cranking it, at the battery terminals, on the cable connectors sitting on them, on the starter wire connector at the starter, and on the starter terminal post, to see where you're losing voltage while cranking which would indicate the fault area just prior to that voltage drop, or starter if plenty of voltage is getting to it.

Depending on your battery charger features you can also note how much current it's putting into it when you recharge it. Full charged/good battery shouldn't take much current, might start high but quickly settle down to a low rate unless the charger itself has failed in some way.

 

[Jerzey]

Seems like a weak battery to me. Immediately after it starts slow cranking and you've stopped trying, I would take a voltage measurement... should be up near 12.6V.

You wrote 12V but is that 12.6V or 12.0V? You can also measure voltage while someone else is cranking it, at the battery terminals, on the cable connectors sitting on them, on the starter wire connector at the starter, and on the starter terminal post, to see where you're losing voltage while cranking which would indicate the fault area just prior to that voltage drop, or starter if plenty of voltage is getting to it.

Depending on your battery charger features you can also note how much current it's putting into it when you recharge it. Full charged/good battery shouldn't take much current, might start high but quickly settle down to a low rate unless the charger itself has failed in some way.

I'll have to double check it. It's a brand new battery though.

 

[koda2000]

I'll have to double check it. It's a brand new battery though.

While it is possible to get a defective new battery it's rare. As said, 12.0 V is actually not fully charged. A fully charged batter should show 12.6V or better. Have you checked the voltage to the battery while the engine was running? You should see something in the 13.6 V to 14.6 V range when running with accessories & lights off. Slow/no cranking with a good battery and cable connections makes me suspect the starter. I'd pull it and have it tested. Easy on the 2WD more work on the 4WD. The fact that the cables are not getting hot makes me think they're ok.

 

[Jerzey]

While it is possible to get a defective new battery it's rare. As said, 12.0 V is actually not fully charged. A fully charged batter should show 12.6V or better. Have you checked the voltage to the battery while the engine was running? You should see something in the 13.6 V to 14.6 V range when running with accessories & lights off. Slow/no cranking with a good battery and cable connections makes me suspect the starter. I'd pull it and have it tested. Easy on the 2WD more work on the 4WD. The fact that the cables are not getting hot makes me think they're ok.

Charged battery to 12.6V. Removed ground from starter, CLEANED CONNECTION. Replaced ground on starter. Fired right up.
Was getting 14.0V while running.

Unhooked all charging stuff. Going to let it sit for a while and try and start again to see what happens.

 

[J_C]

Something else that comes to mind is maybe your battery and charger are *healthy* but you have an excessive parasitic power drain so the battery is low after sitting.

If the problem persists, I'd pop the hood, wait ~ 45 minutes after the last activity (no using keys, remote, opening doors, etc to reset the Battery Saver timer), and measure current draw from the battery by keeping multimeter probes touching both the terminal and the wire. If the battery disconnects without the probes completing the circuit, that too may reset the timer and not allow a valid current reading.

Normally after that time out period it should be down around a few tens of mA current. Before the time out period, a few hundred mA... depending on equipment I suppose since it is a Sport, might draw a little less?

 

[239]

If it’s the 4.0 ohv then I suggest cleaning the crankshaft position sensor connector. Mine got corroded and the truck would crank but not start. It’s worth taking a look.

 

[Jerzey]

If it’s the 4.0 ohv then I suggest cleaning the crankshaft position sensor connector. Mine got corroded and the truck would crank but not start. It’s worth taking a look.

Thanks bud. It's starting. But on first start runs like it's missing. After a few seconds, it runs fine. (Atleast from what I see)

 

[koda2000]

Thanks bud. It's starting. But on first start runs like it's missing. After a few seconds, it runs fine. (Atleast from what I see)

When the 4.0L SOHC runs like that for a few seconds right after cold staring, it might be your intake O-rings are leaking a bit of un-monitored air until the parts expand. My '97 SOHC did this. Ran like crap for maybe 15 seconds, then ran great. This was worse during the winter months and it eventually would set the CEL with P0171/174 lean codes.

The 4.0 SOHC is a finicky engine when first started when cold. My current '01 Job 2 ST will sometimes fire up (intake O-ring gaskets were replaced) and run great and sometime it will stumble for a few seconds, then run great. It's like it has to clear it's throat sometimes.

 

[Jerzey]

When the 4.0L SOHC runs like that for a few seconds right after cold staring, it might be your intake O-rings are leaking a bit of un-monitored air until the parts expand. My '97 SOHC did this. Ran like crap for maybe 15 seconds, then ran great. This was worse during the winter months and it eventually would set the CEL with P0171/174 lean codes.

The 4.0 SOHC is a finicky engine when first started when cold. My current '01 Job 2 ST will sometimes fire up (intake O-ring gaskets were replaced) and run great and sometime it will stumble for a few seconds, then run great. It's like it has to clear it's throat sometimes.

Yeah, i just ordered a set.

 

[koda2000]

Yeah, i just ordered a set.

The Job 2 engine's intakes are one piece (upper/lower) and have much thicker O-rings, so this isn't so much an issue on them. My late production '01 ST has the Job 2 engine.