Steering Wheel Wobble

[dco43054]

I am hoping that you are correct. I'm having a difficult time finding a LEFT front axle with the tow package online. Ugh...

Is the parts list quoting a different axle for vehicles equipped with the tow package? That seems strange as I thought the tow package was just the tow switch, tranny cooler, light plug, hitch and different bumper cover.

Looks like the halfshafts for the 4wd version are about $250 online for the left side based on the Ford site, before any discount.

 

[SHUMAX]

Is the parts list quoting a different axle for vehicles equipped with the tow package? That seems strange as I thought the tow package was just the tow switch, tranny cooler, light plug, hitch and different bumper cover.

Looks like the halfshafts for the 4wd version are about $250 online for the left side based on the Ford site, before any discount.

I am told yes. Do you know what the cost is for the passengers front? How about the two in the rear? Where are you sourcing them from? My dealer is saying they are on back order. Thanks very much!

 

[SHUMAX]

UPDATE:

After having the Michelin tires installed Thursday, I noticed they were not smooth. At speeds from 60mph-80mph there was a constant shake. This was outside of the intermittent "wobble" I've been experiencing. Back to the dealer this morning.

I worked with the tech and we found Road Force figures as high as 26lbs and nothing lower than 20lbs. No good. Quite frankly, I'm a bit frustrated to see this as Michelin tires are supposed to be "the best." Anyway...

He worked on them for over an hour while I watched and learned. Rotating them on the rim and even flipped a couple of the tires. Even took one tire and mounted it on another rim. In the end, we came up with 4, 12, 13 and 18. The one with the 18lbs was the one that was the highest when we started - 26. It was also the one we moved onto two different rims. Finally, on that same tire, we noticed the tread dancing a bit side to side on the balancer. They put the 4 on the drivers front; 12 on the passengers front; 13 on the drivers rear and the 18 on the passengers rear. I drove it and the high speed vibration in the front is now gone. I can feel it in the seats just a bit and suspect it's the 18. They told me to drive it and see. I'll call tomorrow and ask that it be replaced. For $250, the tire should not be that high and I don't want to battle it for the rest of it's life. Get me a new one, please. So, I invested another two hours there today but am ABOUT back to where I was before they put the Michelin tires on. While I did not show it, I admit frustration at this point. I am thankful the Michelin tires look nice - I upgraded to 265/50/20 and they fill the wheel well gap and protect the rim even more.

They did tell me the steering wheel control module will be here in a day or two. The axles (two front) are on back order. No update on time frames for the axles.

QUESTION: I have a family trip that I am leaving on soon. It's about 17 hours in the car, roundtrip. Let's assume they can't replace the axle above before I leave. Would you drive on it with the axle as it is above?

Thanks,
Shumax

 

[dco43054]

I am told yes. Do you know what the cost is for the passengers front? How about the two in the rear? Where are you sourcing them from? My dealer is saying they are on back order. Thanks very much!

I just went to the Ford parts site (from my google list) and popped in the VIN for my Explorer and then searched axle. It came up pretty easily.

There was no indication of backorder, but I didn't try to order them. There are some discount part suppliers out there, but they all source from Ford if they don't have them in stock.

I'm just amazed at the problems you are having with tires. I had 4 OEM Michelins put on at Treadquarters, and have had zero problems. They just popped them on, did a dynamic balance and off I went.

Until you sort out the driveline issues though, I'd guess any vibration will just continue to transmit through the driveline and steering wheel.

As for your question on driving it with the CV joint spewing grease, that's not an easy one without knowing how much has spewed previously.

 

[SHUMAX]

I am amazed, too. What is consistent, though, is the ongoing wobble at 58-65. That tells me it is NOT the tires and rims. Once they replace that one Michelin tire that returned an 18, I think I am done with rims and tires.

I am interested to see what that steering control module does. They feel strongly it will solve it. The CV clearly needs replacing, though. How much grease has come out? Hard to say for sure. It is not clicking at this point. I would say a blob the size of a fifty cent piece is on the LCA. What slung in my wheel/wheel well is another matter.

I am considering pushing a similar sized rental from them for my trip if they can't get an axle in before I leave. We shall see...

Thanks for your input and assistance!
Shumax

 

[HamHands]

UPDATE:

As you may have noticed in another thread under WHEEL BEARING HOWL, I had the other three bearings replaced. No change. So, four new wheel bearings in 500 miles. No change.

Today, I went back to Firestone and they broke down all of the tires and rims and road forced them again. Very low numbers in the front - 4 and 7. Rear was 11 and 17.

When done, they put the car on the rack with someone inside. They drove it to 65mph and the wheels looked perfectly smooth. Inspected the front axles, no play and they rotated smoothly.

Looked at the drivers rear axle and BAM!! It's hoping up and down as it rotates. The passengers rear is, too, but half as much as the drivers side rear - but, also more than the front. Quite a bit of movement in that rear drivers axle - more than this video (below) can capture. It, obviously, connects to the diff. Put your hand on the diff and it's hot and shaking quite a bit. You can actually see it shaking. Look up through the drive shaft and you can see the rubber bushing shaking.
I drove home and it's generally smooth at all speeds but 60mph. It still wobbles at that speed - 58-62mph now. I say "generally" because I now notice it in the seats and I suspect that's the axle being bent.

The way harmonics work, I wonder if it's possible for that bent axle to move the shake up the driveline and have it come out in the steering wheel?

http://vidmg.photobucket.com/albums/v324/shumax/B5A3133B-4CB7-4C04-A577-08640A9E3CB3_zpskbdnf0ab.mp4



I did contact our fleet folks and explained the situation. They put me in touch with the regional service rep. I spoke with him and he is going to contact my dealer and get in touch with me.

Thoughts?
Shumax

I've watched that video several times now SHU... That axle looks (to me) to be slightly warped/bent/out of true spec... Are you the only one that drives this vehicle? Do you ever recall hitting something moderately HARD on that axle side? With a true independent suspension (like on our Explorers) they offer superior handling. However, without Live axles, ( an axle shaft with a axle tube housing to protect the shaft(s)), bending these axle shafts is not too hard. I drove a Wrangler with live axles for 10 years and Dana 44 axle housings are almost bomb proof. But with an exposed axle shaft like on the Exp's... I'll reiterate, it's not too terribly hard to bend them. Again, to me SHU, that axle isn't turning true. It has a very slight wobble that only will be exacerbated the faster you drive. Being that it's connected to the drive train I too agree with the tech that I heard say it is possible that this is causing vibration and steering wheel wobble to the front of the vehicle. Replacing all affected CV axles will/should correct your problem.

 

[HamHands]

Is the parts list quoting a different axle for vehicles equipped with the tow package? That seems strange as I thought the tow package was just the tow switch, tranny cooler, light plug, hitch and different bumper cover.

Looks like the halfshafts for the 4wd version are about $250 online for the left side based on the Ford site, before any discount.

I'm new to this platform but typically anything that is offered in a TOW Package... the axles should be beefier than for the same model of vehicle that is not rated for towing. The school of thought is that if axles are going to be turning harder and if more torque for pulling/hauling is needed then they need to be beefed up in diameter or if they are the same diameter of its non tow rated counterpart the axles need to at least be upgraded to chromoly axles which are much stronger and can take the extra twisting force needed to tow something. It would make sense to me that the axles on a Tow Package vehicle either be thicker or made from a stronger blend of steel than Explorers that don't come with the Tow Package. Like I said, I'm new to the platform and don't have much time underneath it yet so take it easy on me if I'm wrong about the above for the 5th generation platform. But that certainly is the case for Jeeps of which I have a lot of experience with...

ETA: As to the CV boot spewing grease OP, that to me says the boot seal is shot out/torn. Road grime, dust, sand, small debris have now or shortly will get up into that CV joint and it literally rots it out and the CV axle unit with the boot, etc, and needs to be replaced. I learned this the hard way on my SHO. I experienced this and replaced it myself with my brother helping me on the SHO. It's not a hard job to do but I totally understand if you are hesitant to do it yourself.

And as to the question of would I take my family on a 17 hour road trip before the drive line issues were corrected... no sir, I would not. If it's not fixed then I would take another vehicle if you have access to one or borrow/rent another vehicle to make that trip.

You can probably source OEM equivalent or even upgraded parts from online vendors if you look around. When I get home tonight I will try to help you locate what you're looking for Shumax...

 

[SHUMAX]

Thanks for the input here, folks. Curious what you might have come up with on sourcing the axles, HamHands? The dealer said they remain on "back order."

I have put another 300 miles on it and I'm now noticing some clunking in the front left. When I slow to a stop, or the tranny downshifts coming to a stop, I hear a bit of clunking going on up there. I suspect it's that axle that is leaking making the noise. I also notice a faint wobble starting to occur around 40mph, now, too. Further, it's also starting to show up a bit more around 65-70mph, too. I'm really hoping all this is over that bad axle.

They did get the tire in, but I'm going to wait on that until the axles get here and go over once.

Thanks again for the input - if someone can help me find two OEM fronts axles, I sure would be a happy camper!
Shumax

 

[dco43054]

Thanks for the input here, folks. Curious what you might have come up with on sourcing the axles, HamHands? The dealer said they remain on "back order."

I have put another 300 miles on it and I'm now noticing some clunking in the front left. When I slow to a stop, or the tranny downshifts coming to a stop, I hear a bit of clunking going on up there. I suspect it's that axle that is leaking making the noise. I also notice a faint wobble starting to occur around 40mph, now, too. Further, it's also starting to show up a bit more around 65-70mph, too. I'm really hoping all this is over that bad axle.

They did get the tire in, but I'm going to wait on that until the axles get here and go over once.

Thanks again for the input - if someone can help me find two OEM fronts axles, I sure would be a happy camper!
Shumax

I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't find out that that halfshaft was causing your problem.

Your dealer can look online and find stock from other dealers for the part. If he's saying it's backordered, it means the warehouse doesn't have one. You can take the part number and call around. There are more than a couple online parts sellers. Just make sure they have one in stock, which I'd guess most wouldn't. They mainly seem to rely on the local warehouses do deliver same-day, especially on slow moving parts like these.

 

[SHUMAX]

UPDATE: Back to the dealer. They replaced the one tire that produced 18 lbs of force. The new tire produced 4lbs of force. So, the two front tires are showing 4lbs of force. Still have the wobble.

They did get in the passengers front axle and the computer module. The drivers front axle remains on order. They will have the car for a week now. They are going to put the module in and see what happens. If that's no good, they are going to install the passengers front axle. Still waiting on that pesky drivers front axle that is torn...

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Update: Dealer decided to inspect U joints and then rotate driveshaft 180 degrees. Did so and said it is considerably better. I appreciate the effort, but "considerably better" is no good. I am looking for it to be gone...completely. I will drive it this coming Wednesday and decide. Still waiting on the ripped drivers front axle to come in. That has to be replaced regardless...

 

[SHUMAX]

Update: I was out of town and the dealer had my car for an extended period of time. Before I go into this, note the following: Above, you will notice they replaced one tire and got the Road Force to 4lbs. They put that on the RF. So, the RF now has 4lbs of force and so does the LF. The rears both are around 12lbs. Perfectly acceptable.

Ok, back to the story, the dealer calls to let me know they did the following: Rotated the driveshaft 180 degrees and drove it. Condition had improved quite a bit. They then dug into the adaptive cruise control not working. They found the radar sensor in the bumper was faulty. That "sensor" was $1,100! They replaced that and my adaptive cruise came to life again. They drove the car and the vibration was gone. I came and picked the car up and drove it and agreed - vibration gone. I drove it about 100 miles now and noticed that there is just a VERY slight shimmy at 60mph when the tires are cold. Flat spotting of the tires? Not sure, but it is not something I would be concerned with.

The dealers theory? They felt like that radar sensor also ties into the steering. When the avoidance system senses an issue, it shakes the steering wheel. They felt like the system was no longer working/shorting out and it was causing the wheel to shake randomly. I researched it a bit and I don't think my MY 2011 Explorer Limited has this feature - shake the steering wheel if there is an "issue." With that said, my adaptive cruise now works and the shimmy is basically gone. After they did the above, they replaced the axle and the conditions remained the same. They did it in this order to be sure they knew what "fix" was real, if that makes sense? I.E., it wasn't the axle causing the issue.

If my research is correct, my car doesn't have the feature that shakes the steering wheel to alert the driver of an "issue." If that's true, the sensor didn't fix what they think it did. Now, it did correct the issue with the adaptive cruise. So, again, if my research is correct, I wonder what they did that would have caused it to cause the vibration to go away? I am shocked. Could it be just having to tires with 4lbs of force in the front? We never did drive it after that change occurred. Well, I didn't anyway.

The rest of the story? The rear is now shaking. Seriously! Keep in mind I have a bad drivers rear axle - above video shows it hopping around. I can't remember noticing it as much as I do now, but it's been a week and I'm not sure what's "normal" now. Regardless, when I accelerate, I feel and hear a pronounced thumping. Because they rotated the driveshaft, I am wondering if that's it. Then again, could it be the bent axle in the back? If so, was it just not as noticeable in the past because we were concentrating so much on the front? It's becoming a messy spider web for sure.

The dealer has the drivers rear axle on order, but it's on back order. We're going to put that in and see what we get. If it's not that, I will push on the driveshaft issue.

Thoughts?

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

I'm worried others' originally involved have lost interest in this. That's too bad.

Update: I decided to purchase a $1 worm drive hose clamp and attach it to the back of the driveshaft near the diff. While under the EX, I discovered that when they rotated the drive shaft 180 degrees to see if it would help, they FORGOT to install one of the bolts that connects the driveshaft to the diff. Yikes! So, I immediately spun the hose clamp so the hose clamp bolt was lined up on the spot where the bolt was missing. I drove it and immediately noticed the vibration in the rear was reduced. Further, the steering wheel quieted down quite a bit, too! Not perfect, but it was better. I will save you all the back and forth, but I kept moving the hose clamp in 45 and 90 degree increments. I eventually settled with the hose clamp, and a 5/16" washer trapped under the worm gear, about 45 degrees above the spot where the bolt was missing. There is a barely detectable shake at 60mph, but I really have to pay attention to "find" it. Quite frankly, it could be the road for all I know. It's much better than it was.

If you started at the top, you know I STILL have a bent rear drivers axle. That finally came in and will go into the car Monday. It's my hope that will only help the situation.

At this point, I'm almost tempted to leave that bolt out of the driveshaft. I say that because it's about 95% perfect now. I suppose I can mark it and have the bolt put in and see what happens. If it's worse, I could always take it out.

As I moved that clamp and washer around on the driveshaft, it would make the steering wheel shake quite a bit (as well as the rear) if I had it in the wrong spot. That tells you something right there. I never thought an unbalanced driveshaft would shake the steering wheel. Makes me wonder if this bad axle in the rear is part of the issue all along! Find out Monday!

Shumax

 

[SHUMAX]

Just an update to the situation. I had the shocks and struts replaced in the vehicle. I now have a thumping sound in the front that I posted on another post. I was hoping that changing these items would fix that, but it did not. The stab links have been replaced as well. The vehicle rides much better over rough surfaces. The shimmy, however, continues. It is intermittent but annoying. Not sure what to do next...

I plan to continue to drive it and have it checked out each oil change. I suspect the thumping noise I am hearing in the front is also related to the shimmy. I thought it might be a ball joint, but the contend everything is tight in the front end.

Shumax

 

[peterk9]

Just an update to the situation. I had the shocks and struts replaced in the vehicle. I now have a thumping sound in the front that I posted on another post. I was hoping that changing these items would fix that, but it did not. The stab links have been replaced as well. The vehicle rides much better over rough surfaces. The shimmy, however, continues. It is intermittent but annoying. Not sure what to do next...

I plan to continue to drive it and have it checked out each oil change. I suspect the thumping noise I am hearing in the front is also related to the shimmy. I thought it might be a ball joint, but the contend everything is tight in the front end.

Shumax

Check out this post in the Popping noises when turning? thread; http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2793084&postcount=16
This was a problem with some 2011 models.

Peter

 

[SHUMAX]

More of a thumping noise on straight runs at slow speeds. Notice too on slow left hand sweeper turns...