Stopped running/Wont restart

[kevinspann]

1997 Eddie Bauer, 4.0L SOHC 187,480ish miles

I was driving home the other night, and the engine just stopped running. No misfire, no CEL, nothing spectacular, it just...stopped. It wont start at all either. Not a trace of it trying to fire. It has spark, it has fuel. I pulled one plug out and it was wet with fuel. CKPS is assumed to be okay, CEL goes out when cranking, i also did replace it with a brand new one, yet still, no start. Im not sure if the cam position sensor would be an issue or not. Im wondering if one of the timing chains has finally failed. The Drivers side cam is turning, so its also assumed that the jackshaft chain and drivers side cassette is okay. If that was the case, i would think that it would at least try to start, even if it ran terribly, but it doesnt.

I have not done a compression test yet, nor have i taken off the passenger side cam cover.

Any ideas on what would cause it to completely stop running at a 45mph cruise, and not restart again?

 

[jlsparky7]

Definitely sounds like the timing chain to me. Does the engine seem to turn over faster now?

 

[kevinspann]

Definitely sounds like the timing chain to me. Does the engine seem to turn over faster now?

Thats the thing, it really doesnt seem to turn over faster at all. If it does, its not really noticeable. Theres no nasty clanking sounds when its cranking either.

 

[JDraper]

The cam position sensor going bad would cause a no-start condition. It's job is to tell the ignition when to fire.

 

[budwich]

I don't think that the cam position is related to firing.... that's the job of the crankshaft sensor (indirectly).... cam is used for fuel "control".

Your problem sounds like the "standard sohc" problems of lost timing due to "bad things" related to cassettes or otherwise... :-( IF you lost your cam drive on one side, that's 50%, I suspect most vehicles won't run with half their engine "gone". When you say you have spark... how did you know? Further, your idea of a compression test will quickly determine a mechanical issue (ie cam lost) or to look elsewhere (electrical).

 

[hworksinc]

The 4.0 SOHC doesn't have a cam position sensor... just the crankshaft position sensor.

I say run a quick compression test - if the passenger side timing chain broke, then you'll have no compression in at least one of those cylinders...

 

[kevinspann]

i figure it is the passenger timing chain cassette, i just dont want to admit it to myself. I havent got a compression tester, so i think ill pull the passenger side cam cover tomorrow to be sure.

The 4.0 SOHC doesn't have a cam position sensor... just the crankshaft position sensor.

It does in fact, there is one right near the oil fill cap, on the drivers side cam cover.

 

[loder]

Your ECM might have went out OR the fuel pump.

 

[hworksinc]

It does in fact, there is one right near the oil fill cap, on the drivers side cam cover.

Haha you're quite right... now I remember why I no longer go to my local dealer - I got that tidbit of information from one of the mechanics there (he told me that it was the knock sensor there next to the oil fill cap). BS! I'm glad I have the factory service manuals...

You didn't happen to check the fuel pressure did you?

 

[kevinspann]

Haha you're quite right... now I remember why I no longer go to my local dealer - I got that tidbit of information from one of the mechanics there (he told me that it was the knock sensor there next to the oil fill cap). BS! I'm glad I have the factory service manuals...

You didn't happen to check the fuel pressure did you?

I havent got a fuel pressure tester, but gas does come out of the schrader valve when its pushed in. I can hear the fuel pump run as well before I try to crank it. It was replaced a couple years ago, as was the fuel filter, but I know that doesnt mean these things can be ruled out.

 

[loder]

Get a code scanner and check for trouble codes. If you don't get any codes, chances are its the computer (ECM/ECU).

 

[budwich]

BUT if you "observed" a wet plug, fuel ain't an issue... I would look elsewhere.

 

[kevinspann]

Get a code scanner and check for trouble codes. If you don't get any codes, chances are its the computer (ECM/ECU).

Hm, id hate to waste the money on a code scanner if its not the ecu. All the lights on the dash function as normal, such as the CEL, which comes on and then goes out when cranking. Also, the message center seems to work properly, which i think it wouldnt if the ECU were dead...but i dont know for sure.

 

[loder]

Well, from experience, when it's running and just quits (then cranks but no start) it's usually one of a few possibilities: Fuel pump, pressure regulator, ECU, or ignition module. It is possible for another sensor to fail (i.e. CPS, TPS, etc.) but less likely.

 

[hworksinc]

The message center isn't tied to the PCM as far as general operation - it just pulls some engine data from the PCM to calculate things like fuel economy.

Out of the 3 things needed for an engine to run:

Gas: Wet plugs indicate fuel is getting in... so it should at least try to start
Spark: Spark present, but is it strong enough, and did you test it on all cylinders?
Air: Dumb question, but did you try starting it while "feathering" the throttle? If the IAC valve completely died it may not start (no air). Maybe a dead squirrel in the air intake???

This is weird... Were you able to pull the passenger side valve cover?

 

[kevinspann]

The message center isn't tied to the PCM as far as general operation - it just pulls some engine data from the PCM to calculate things like fuel economy.

Out of the 3 things needed for an engine to run:

Gas: Wet plugs indicate fuel is getting in... so it should at least try to start
Spark: Spark present, but is it strong enough, and did you test it on all cylinders?
Air: Dumb question, but did you try starting it while "feathering" the throttle? If the IAC valve completely died it may not start (no air). Maybe a dead squirrel in the air intake???

This is weird... Were you able to pull the passenger side valve cover?

I didnt test for spark on all cylinders, i just pulled one plug on the drivers side to verify the coil hadnt completely died. I have tried to start it with the throttle open...but if the IAC was completely dead, it wouldnt have stopped running like it did. IAC is fairly new as well. And i havent been able to pull the passenger side cover yet.

 

[loder]

You guys are making things too complicated --- Pulling valve covers??? Start with the most obvious stuff first (and check them thoroughly). It's probably something simple. Don't mean to be critical but I've been there and after removing all kinds of stuff, it was always the simplest thing causing the problem.

 

[budwich]

I agree but a compression test isn't outside the "realm of simple".

 

[marragtop]

Have you ruled out bad gas? Try starting it with shooting ether into the throttle body. It's a quick and easy test to verify you don't have a gas issue.

 

[hworksinc]

You guys are making things too complicated --- Pulling valve covers???

Just to check for busted timing chain - a compression test would be more thorough, but if one doesn't have a gauge...

Have you ruled out bad gas?

Now there's an idea... that happened to me once - took me forever to find the problem.