The Alternative Fuel Dilema

[Afboy143]

Perhaps it is? And were just accelerating it.


Shoot the stuff into space? hehe convenient, until space flight really gets going.
sounds like when i used to say why not dumb garbage in volcanos... totally unrelated, but oh well.

Yea it would make sence...then the saying goes "if it were only that easy". Is the earth going to end with another mass extinction? Yes, its happened several times in the past. Is global warming causing all these damn hurricanes in the summer? Yes... Is the water rising, poles melting at crazy rates, and many islands such as one off the coast of maryland now under water? Yes. But many scientists say for the first time ever we can actually defend ourselves from major distaster such as a comet hiting earth. What are we doing about it? Well now that gas is $3 is the states we see e85 and bio. I say bump it to 5 bucks...then lets see what comes out.

I nice quote I read was "The earth is eventually going to come to an end. We can either make it a crash landing, or start acting now and make it a bit more smooth"

 

[Brandons]

good quote i must say, but is it really true that everything must come to an end or is it just that everyone thinks that way now? Just throwing that in the mix, then well turn the blender on i guess.

 

[Afboy143]

Okay, so I've been going over a lot of this stuff in my head, and I have to get it all out there for someone else to read/hear and see if any of it makes sense.

Here's the deal. I'm very happy with my x. It's something I dreamed about and wanted since it came out in 99! I'm even happy paying nearly $3.50/gal for gas and getting ~12MPG on average.

However... I'm under the strong impression that petroleum based gasoline isn't going to get any cheaper, based on a few facts (or facts, as I see them).

1) The US is overly dependant upon foreign oil, and with the tendancy to pick fights with the sources of oil, supply can only become more limited.

2) Gasoline is a fossil fuel. There is a finite amount of it out there. Sure they said this in the 70's, and we're still going strong burning the stuff, but it's gotten progressively more expensive, and as the supply gets smaller, I expect the price to raise. I don't foresee fuel prices dropping.

3) Okay, so I'm no tree hugger, but it is true that all the fossil fueled vehicles out there are indeed contributing to a REAL global warming problem, and should government ever decide to make changes to fix it, it's likely that this is one of the first things that'll go. So if I can preempt it and start burning something that's cleaner, all the better.

So, what have I considered?

1) CNG (Compressed Natural Gas). This is much cleaner, and typically much cheaper, and with minor mods my fuel injected gasoline engine should run on it. Problem is, I'll likely get slightly less fuel economy, and it's still derived from the process of harvesting fossil fuels!

2) E85 Ethanol. It's plenty clean, has a higher octane rating so I can run a more aggressive tune, is made (mostly) of renewable stuff. Problem is, it's only just catching on, it's only as "cheap" as it is because of govt. subsidizing, and it's still 15% fossil fuels.

3) B100 Biodiesel. It's also very clean, has a higher cetane rating that D2, will net me a higher MPG number, and is 100% renewable. Problem is, my vehicle doesn't run on diesel, so I'm looking at a repower to run the stuff.

In my mind, the best long term option is B100 Biodiesel. I can run an engine that has respectable performance, gets great gas mileage, is clean, and 100% renewable. But the problem remains that I'd need to swap a motor into my righ to make it work.

What does that mean? I figure it'd cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $10k-15k to do such a thing. My prefered donor motor is a 2004+ GMC Duramax. It makes 300+ HP out of the box. I should be able to pick one up for around $3k, plus about $1.5 for a transmission. Leaving me around $5.5k for hoses, wiring, accessories, fabrication, etc, etc, etc.

I've already paid $12k for my truck. Adding this conversion puts me at about $27k-$30k. Assuming, of course, that I can fit ANY diesel motor into the engine comparment, they're all quite large. Ohh, and assuming also that I can make it street/smog legal in california.

How's that stack up?

Well, if I stayed with my 5.0L gasoline engine, and went with gasoline, E85, or CNG, I still plan to modify it. I want to do a 331 or 347 stroker, some head work, cam, etc. I figure that would total about $3000+ not to mention other stuff like headers, exhaust, chip, intake, etc. If for whatever reason a stroker isn't enough power (it never is) then I'd like to add the explorer express eaton super charger. There goes $3500+. So I'm still looking at spending probably about $8k-$10k just on performance mods for my gasoline engine, and I'd be getting closer to 10MPG than 20MPG which I believe is possible from a diesel power plant.

So, say I do swap in a diesel. I'll have something that gets around 20MPG, has ~300 rwhp, can tow a fair amount, has plenty of people and cargo space, and can run on Biodiesel. Sounds an awful lot like a VW Touereg V10 TDI doesn't it? Of course, my truck will have cost around $30k total, where a new Touereg TDI is about $55k new and extremely rare to find. So what would I do with the extra $25k? Maybe buy a VW Jetta TDI for the wife to drive. Hmmn.

Then again, I could wait 5 years or so and pick up a used Toureg TDI probably for around $30k, assuming there are enough in circulation, and they depreciate significantly.

So... What do I do?

Do I do a diesel repower?

Do I just suck it up at the pump and continue to mod my gas motor, and run it on gas, or possibly E85 when it becomes available locally?

Do I sell the x, and just buy something that already runs on diesel and forget the whole thing?

There's probably a million other details I've thought about that aren't shared here, but I had to just get this out while I could. Maybe your thoughts can bring some order to the chaos of my thoughts!

Thanks for reading!

I actually read your whole thread lol. Right now, I wouldnt sell the X because your probably wont get much for it. I would prolly wait until E85 becomes available locally (E85 companies are pushing HARD for Cali). In the mean time, build up that motor and run e85 104 octane. Which I believe is same as race gas....just be prepared for 10 mpg like mentioned.

Ford is coming out with a hybrid e85 car soon. Should be pretty interesting...This way no one can ***** on how e85 gets crappy fuel milage. I also saw on MSN cars in concept going 100mpg

 

[Afboy143]

good quote i must say, but is it really true that everything must come to an end or is it just that everyone thinks that way now? Just throwing that in the mix, then well turn the blender on i guess.

I think the reason everyone thinks that now is because we actually have the knowledge of it happening a few times in the past. I believe the earth has gone through 4-6 mass extinctions in the past? Throw in ice ages, climage changes, etc etc. History repeats itself, its a known fact...just the details on how exactly it will repeat arent so clear

 

[Brandons]

How can it be an extinction when living things have come back? I can see what your saying though, for sure, and add a couple drinks to that, i must say i was referring more or less to events like the sun going out or the earth becoming totally uninhabitable. Really interesting topics i havent really looked into.

 

[cherrybomb]

Wow, I'd be checking into that. There is no reason your mpg should be that bad. The mpg I'm getting is all completely stock on a truck w/ 70,000 miles.

I just removed the roof rack a couple weeks ago, just bought the truck a few months ago. It's due for an oil change and I'll use Amsoil for that and eventually use Amsoil in the rest.

As for plugs and wires, I just changed mine last week. NGK V-Power from a local parts store $2.00 a piece. Taylor wires and Moroso indexing washers from Summit Racing. ($100.00 shipped to my door)I went with the V-Powers 'cause I had very good luck with them on a '93 I had some years ago. I went on vacation the same day I changed plugs and wires and was towing a 3500lb boat. So that mpg doesn't count. I'll let you know after a week or 2 what my mpg is now. But I know my worst tank hasn't been worse than 15. I usually drive 80% highway and usually get about 16.5

I read a recent post on another forum where someone changed plugs and wires and gained 3+ mpg. Maybe that's your biggest problem. He went from 16.4 to 19.8.

and dam it, I was planning on getting an air dam

I'll take a look at it. The only other problem I know I have, is a minor exhaust leak on the passenger side manifold. But I don't think that's making a big difference. I don't doubt I can get some better mileage, but still, the bottom line is what type of fuel I'm burning, and how much it costs. ;-)

Feeling like I'm gonna probably go with building this thing up, and running E85 when it's available.

I actually read your whole thread lol. Right now, I wouldnt sell the X because your probably wont get much for it. I would prolly wait until E85 becomes available locally (E85 companies are pushing HARD for Cali). In the mean time, build up that motor and run e85 104 octane. Which I believe is same as race gas....just be prepared for 10 mpg like mentioned.

Ford is coming out with a hybrid e85 car soon. Should be pretty interesting...This way no one can ***** on how e85 gets crappy fuel milage. I also saw on MSN cars in concept going 100mpg

Hey, thanks for reading!

Yeah, I think I'm tending to agree with this. Also, if I understand correctly, if I build the engine, and tune the ECM to run on E85, I should see only a minimal, if not non-existent decrease in fuel economy. Only problem is, I end up being dependant upon it, and probably can't run gasoline.

 

[Afboy143]

Cherry,

E85 gives off less energy than gasoline. For example, the new f150 were rated at 20 mpg gas and 13 mpg e85

 

[tnmk]

I think the reason everyone thinks that now is because we actually have the knowledge of it happening a few times in the past. I believe the earth has gone through 4-6 mass extinctions in the past? Throw in ice ages, climage changes, etc etc. History repeats itself, its a known fact...just the details on how exactly it will repeat arent so clear

Let's be careful now. This is Ford Explorer forum, not a evolution vs. creation forum. I personally believe in creation and a young earth.

Evolution is an unproven theory and if you do your homework you'll find every bit as much evidence (if not more) for the theory of creation.

Bottom line is that this earth will eventually die out along with the rest of the universe. That is simple science. But you have to do your homework first.

 

[Fredness]

Umm, YOU just turned it in to evolution vs. creation...

Anyhow... E85 is in its infancy. With Denatured Ethanol (not what we are seeing now), E85 will produce 5% MORE energy than current pump gasoline, so you would get more power and better gas mileage. Right now they are working on “switchgrass” and yard clippings to make Cellulosic Ethanol. Once this becomes commercial, you are looking at gasoline meeting a serious threat.

E85 needs higher compression to work. 12-15:1 or a supercharger/turbocharger on a 10:1 base engine. Lots of timing too!

Regardless of what has been said here, I’m still going to use it in my “Gas-Only” Focus. I’ve had dozens of people tell me I couldn’t supercharge my 3.0L ’94 Ranger too, so I did.
Then they said I couldn’t use 87 octane at 6psi, so I did.
Then they said I couldn’t bolt a Whipplecharger (’02-’06) kit because I had a distributor, so I did.
Then they said it would blow the [pick one or more: hypereutectic pistons, rods. crankshaft, block, heads] at 10psi, so I pumped it to 15.
…all on pump gas. (Read: custom tuning, no detonation, aftermarket timing control)

See a trend?

I take little faith in idle talk.

 

[kabukie]

The Ohio State University actually converted an Chevrolet Equinox to a diesel hybrid. Ive also seen a diesel hybrid Explorer at their center for automotive research too.
http://car.eng.ohio-state.edu/