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The "Check Engine" light is the bane of my existence

Blackout2017

Elite Explorer
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February 11, 2016
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City, State
Vegas, baby!
Year, Model & Trim Level
2017 Sport Shadow 401A
I traded in the 2010 XLT because the dash was lit up like a Christmas tree, and now after only one week with the 2017 Sport I'm getting the "Terrain Management System Fault" error message. I tried key cycling, no luck. I'll have the battery checked today, since I have no idea what condition it's in or how old it is. Otherwise it's straight back to Car Max. They'll fix anything within 30 days, and after that I have their extended warranty.

We'll see how this goes.
 



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I traded in the 2010 XLT because the dash was lit up like a Christmas tree, and now after only one week with the 2017 Sport I'm getting the "Terrain Management System Fault" error message. I tried key cycling, no luck. I'll have the battery checked today, since I have no idea what condition it's in or how old it is. Otherwise it's straight back to Car Max. They'll fix anything within 30 days, and after that I have their extended warranty.

We'll see how this goes.
I have seen this over the years, usually battery issue as a matter of fact I have seen it in few years. 10 yrs ownership with nearly 200k miles.

Once on my tundra, i read the code. it said 3 abs module and something failed in one incident. what is the probabilty ? so put a new batter.all these sensor operate in such small margin of acceptable voltage that any voltage issue pops as something else.
 






I have seen this over the years, usually battery issue as a matter of fact I have seen it in few years. 10 yrs ownership with nearly 200k miles.

Once on my tundra, i read the code. it said 3 abs module and something failed in one incident. what is the probabilty ? so put a new batter.all these sensor operate in such small margin of acceptable voltage that any voltage issue pops as something else.
Thanks, it's good to know that it may be a simple fix.
 






The best way to handle used vehicle ownership is tackle each fault as it comes up. Maybe you did that but the prior vehicle "dash lit up like Christmas tree" without addressing the causes, seems like you should get a code scanner tool and identify the set codes and go from there.

If the '17 Sport has the original battery it is due for a new one by now. If it has a new battery, unless it was replaced with the low shelf cheap replacement, it should be good still unless it has been sitting over the Covid era, or some fault is excessively draining it.

You can get a battery tested free at many auto parts places, but certainly with the Carmax warranty you should take it back to have them do whatever they will on their dime.

Battery manufacture date should be on a sticker on it, you may need to remove a top plastic beauty cover or insulating wrap to see it.
 












The best way to handle used vehicle ownership is tackle each fault as it comes up. Maybe you did that but the prior vehicle "dash lit up like Christmas tree" without addressing the causes, seems like you should get a code scanner tool and identify the set codes and go from there.

If the '17 Sport has the original battery it is due for a new one by now. If it has a new battery, unless it was replaced with the low shelf cheap replacement, it should be good still unless it has been sitting over the Covid era, or some fault is excessively draining it.

You can get a battery tested free at many auto parts places, but certainly with the Carmax warranty you should take it back to have them do whatever they will on their dime.

Battery manufacture date should be on a sticker on it, you may need to remove a top plastic beauty cover or insulating wrap to see it.
Oh I did check the codes, the problem was the mechanic who could never fix anything.

I had the new truck's battery checked today at an auto parts store. It's a 850 cca battery reading at 83%. I didn't check the manufacture date, but at 83% do you think it's due to be replaced? The guy said they didn't have any batteries the right size with higher cold cranking amps, and he suggested an AGM (gel) battery from another store. He said it would have numerically lower cca but would perform much better. I don't know anything about batteries, so I guess my options are get a new lead battery with 850 cca that's running at 100% instead of 83%, get an AGM battery with lower cca that hopefully will perform better, or just take it back to Car Max and drive a loaner until they can figure something out.
 






^ Does Forscan work on OBD1 vehicles?
Oh I did check the codes, the problem was the mechanic who could never fix anything.

I had the new truck's battery checked today at an auto parts store. It's a 850 cca battery reading at 83%. I didn't check the manufacture date, but at 83% do you think it's due to be replaced? The guy said they didn't have any batteries the right size with higher cold cranking amps, and he suggested an AGM (gel) battery from another store. He said it would have numerically lower cca but would perform much better. I don't know anything about batteries, so I guess my options are get a new lead battery with 850 cca that's running at 100% instead of 83%, get an AGM battery with lower cca that hopefully will perform better, or just take it back to Car Max and drive a loaner until they can figure something out.
Woah wait a minute there! "I did check the codes", but, what codes did it set? This is usually a primary piece of info, more important than anything else you've stated so far. If the check engine light comes on, it will set a readable code.

I don't know if an 850CCA battery is stock for a Sport, "maybe" especially considering it may be a group 65 which lower trim models didn't receive, lower trim even received a smaller battery group for a while, but it is not clear cut whether 83% means needs replaced or not.

You shouldn't expect one with higher CCA, 850 is a premium group 65 battery. largest size that will reasonable fit and plenty with battery in good condition and charge state, but, the question is whether it's at only 83% because of poor charge, or excessive discharge, or worn out battery and yet, if it is at 83% due to only being worn, that's plenty to get you through summer months and only in the colder winter climates would be a problem in winter.

Rather than a % #, the readings would have been more useful, just as check engine light isn't as useful as the code that set it. Details.

If it did not come with an AGM battery, you don't need AGM even if the battery is bad (which is indeterminate at this point, just a new battery. It will not "perform much better", but it will last a few more years if it is the only problem (being bad battery) but a waste of money if some other problem is draining the battery excessively. If the current or original battery was not agm then I would reject all his statements as nonsense.

Let's back up a bit. This is not so complicated. When the vehicle is running and the malfunction is observed, use a multimeter to measure the electrical system voltage. If it is near, even a little bit below 12.0V, it is not the battery, but if it is not up closer to 14V with the engine-off state battery reading 12.0V or below, it may be the charging system, and yet the newer setups disable much charging if just idling till the battery voltage drops too low so I do mean an already below 12.6V battery.

It is possible there was an existing fault and this was why it was sold to carmax, and regardless of any of the above they should make it right as long as they are obligated to, whether this entails replacing the battery or something more - it is not your problem/expense/burden yet, except to make them hold to what they promised contractually.

I would not buy a new battery given the present obligation by carmax, if it is the battery, or the charging system, or whatever, it's their burden to fix. You might suggest to them that a mechanic (or whoever tested, I wouldn't lie but I wouldn't screw myself over about this either), determined that the battery capacity was lower than ideal, and maybe they put a new battery in and it fixes, it, or maybe it doesn't but you drive and pay attention and if the problem comes up within the repair window of 30 days, they keep working to fix it and you get a new battery out of it as a bonus, but be sure that being a sport with a 850CCA battery, they don't swap in something sub-par with lower CCA, I mean 750CCA or more could be due to variances with suppliers but below that is substituting a lower quality battery and is unacceptable, as long as you do the research to find what the factory battery CCA is, they only have to match that, or come close if being reasonable... it really doesn't need 850CCA but if much below that, the lifetime of the battery may be compromised so might as well hold them to what the vehicle should have had in it.

Haha, now I'm just rambling. Make them fix it until it becomes your burden to do so and then, either DIY or if taking it to someone, don't take it to someone who suggests some special more powerful battery, with stock parts it should work fine, unless you have a specific reason to change from stock. FYI the best value group 65 batteries for it are the upper tier from Costco or Walmart, which are about 850CCA and around $100, maybe a little more due to covid.
 






Haha, now I'm just rambling.
No! That was all excellent information, thank you.

Just to get it out of the way, the "dash lit up like a Christmas tree" comment was about the previous vehicle which I traded in to get the current 2017 Sport. I didn't go into detail because hopefully I'll never see that truck or that mechanic again. Codes were read, problems were diagnosed, money was charged, work was done, problems returned along with new ones, rinse and repeat for the last two years. You can maybe see why that part of my brain is a bit frazzled right now.

So getting to the new situation, everything you said here was very helpful. The only error message I'm getting now is the Terrain Management System Fault. Unlike some, I am not also getting ABS errors, Forward Collision Warning, steering issues, etc., and my problem has nothing to do with mud or snow so perhaps we can rule out whatever may cause those similar-but-different situations. That leads me to the list of potential solutions that, going from easier to more difficult, begins with a new battery, works its way through software updates, and ends with replaced throttle bodies/steering racks/ABS modules. My hope was that I would see an obvious problem with an equally obvious solution. What I saw was a big, powerful battery that is no longer functioning at it's optimum level, but is probably kinda sorta ready to be replaced. I was reaching for my wallet when I thought I'd check this thread again, and here we are.

I admit that I am being a bit obtuse because I want to fix what I can, but you are correct that Car Max is under obligation to provide a functioning vehicle, regardless of its previous owner, condition, or treatment, and my responsibility is to stay on top of them until the problem is fixed and not let them cut corners. I shouldn't need to buy a new battery for a vehicle that they sold me two weeks ago, and there is no proof yet that a new battery will even solve the problem... although, when all is said and done, driving around in triple-digit heat with a four year old battery is asking for trouble, so if they do fix the problem and it isn't the battery, I'm going to buy a new one anyway, the difference being that I'll give them a chance to pay for it themselves.

I'll give them a call today and make an appointment to drop it off after the weekend. Mostly my intention was to gather good information here first, and between this thread and the poor souls who also belong to the TMS Fault club (still waiting for my membership card), I may be able to provide the dealer's mechanics with a nudge in the right direction.
 






I don't know for sure if that is the OEM battery or not. The one that was in my 2017 Platinum was a BXT-65-650 (650 CCA) and I don't see why the Sport would have a different one from the factory.

Peter
 






I don't know for sure if that is the OEM battery or not. The one that was in my 2017 Platinum was a BXT-65-650 (650 CCA) and I don't see why the Sport would have a different one from the factory.

Peter
Looks like you're right. Forum member dimatrixxx has a thread that begins, "My stock battery bxt-65-650 is now dead," and he drives a 2017 Sport as well. You asked him there if he had reset the Battery Management System after upgrading his battery from a 650 CCA to an 850 CCA, and now I'm wondering if the BMS not being reset may be a contributing factor to my issues, seeing as my battery has apparently been changed at some point as well.
 






I have recently discovered that the 2016+ models apparently do not require that procedure as it is no longer mentioned in the Owner's Manual.
There is a procedure laid out on page 289 of the Manual, 3rd print, to follow when the battery is replaced but I doubt that would now still apply in your case since the battery was replaced some time ago.
Looks like someone used the 'Search' feature. ;) :thumbsup:

Peter
 






"I have recently discovered that the 2016+ models apparently do not require (Battery Management System reset) as it is no longer mentioned in the Owner's Manual."

Excellent, great info, thank you.
 






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