Torque Converter Install Issue

[DSteele41]

Couple of quick questions before moving forward with that install

Is the transmission 100% mated to the engine in those pictures??
Meaning the alignment dowls are all the way flat, the engine and trans are flat to each other up top and at the bottom?

Did the spacer get installed between the engine and the flexplate?
(was the flexplate ever removed from engine)

if the answer is yes and yes then
Try putting your hand under/behind the converter as much as possible through the starter hole and pull the converter forward slightly... then you should be able to thread the first nut on and this will pull the converter through the flexplate

when the engine and trans are fully stabbed to each other the converter should pull forward 3/8"
You have everything aligned perfectly like the picture above then you can go ahead and install a few bellhousing bolts and tighten them down.. The converter should show enough thread to start the first nut...when you do this is when the converter should pull forward a full 3/8"

@410Fortune
I just thought about an idea would require alot of backtracking.

1.) Unbolt Transmission from Bell Housing Pull the Tranny all the way off the Torque Converter.

2.) Push Torque Converter Forward the 3/8"

3.) Bolt Nuts to Torque Converter through Starter Opening and then Slide Transmission / Bell Housing Over Torque Converter and Bolt Back Up

So Basically get TC Bolted in First then Bolt in Transmission Bell Housing Bolts around TC.....

Hope that makes sense.....
Seems that should be the process any way.... Just a Thought as I'm Very Perisistent in trying to Solve any Problem LOL

Hope to hear back

 

[410Fortune]

Why is the transmission already mounted and driveshaft installed if you have not even seated the converter yet??
That is not how this works
My advice was to try and pull the converter forward now with the trans bolted in...it should EASILY slide forward with little effort, enough to get a thread started. If the converter does not easily pull forward with little effort then you have bigger problems

as pointed out if the converter PILOT is fighting against the flexplate then you have bigger issues, and the transmission must come back out you are pushing the converter into the front pump which can destroy the front pump
stabbing an auto trans to an engine is a delicate process, none of the bellhousing bolts should have been installed until the converter was lined up to the flexplate and things go together smoothly, not forced together with bolts.

I hope that makes sense

The trans should NOT be on its mounts with a driveshaft installed until WELL after you stab the trans to engine, seat the converter AND install the starter and exhaust pipes...THEN the mount goes in Then the driveshaft

 

[DSteele41]

Why is the transmission already mounted and driveshaft installed if you have not even seated the converter yet??
That is not how this works
My advice was to try and pull the converter forward now with the trans bolted in...it should EASILY slide forward with little effort, enough to get a thread started. If the converter does not easily pull forward with little effort then you have bigger problems

as pointed out if the converter PILOT is fighting against the flexplate then you have bigger issues, and the transmission must come back out you are pushing the converter into the front pump which can destroy the front pump
stabbing an auto trans to an engine is a delicate process, none of the bellhousing bolts should have been installed until the converter was lined up to the flexplate and things go together smoothly, not forced together with bolts.

I hope that makes sense

The trans should NOT be on its mounts with a driveshaft installed until WELL after you stab the trans to engine, seat the converter AND install the starter and exhaust pipes...THEN the mount goes in Then the driveshaft

@410Fortune

That makes complete sense.... To answer your Question Me and a buddy was tag teaming this and while he was getting Torque Converter Bolts on through Starter Whole I was working on Buttoning Up the Rest. Drive Shaft etc....

But Again I see exactly what you are saying in Regards to "Steps" and "Delicate" Process.

I will Take Rear Drive Shaft Off and Back Bell Housing Bolts off Slightly to Get Torgue Converter Bolted First (Hopefully)

I will update you'll once that is done.

 

[DSteele41]

Why is the transmission already mounted and driveshaft installed if you have not even seated the converter yet??
That is not how this works
My advice was to try and pull the converter forward now with the trans bolted in...it should EASILY slide forward with little effort, enough to get a thread started. If the converter does not easily pull forward with little effort then you have bigger problems

as pointed out if the converter PILOT is fighting against the flexplate then you have bigger issues, and the transmission must come back out you are pushing the converter into the front pump which can destroy the front pump
stabbing an auto trans to an engine is a delicate process, none of the bellhousing bolts should have been installed until the converter was lined up to the flexplate and things go together smoothly, not forced together with bolts.

I hope that makes sense

The trans should NOT be on its mounts with a driveshaft installed until WELL after you stab the trans to engine, seat the converter AND install the starter and exhaust pipes...THEN the mount goes in Then the driveshaft

@410Fortune @DILLARD000 @transman304

As Soon as I Replied... I Got It!

I decided to Replace U-Joints in Front and Rear Drive Shafts... So I rented a Ball Joint Press to get U-Joints out of Shafts.

I took it back today and after turning it in ..... My Thought was "Let Me See If I can Find Something in Here to Pull that TC Forward".

Bingo! Brake Spoon !

TC Pulled Forward on first Try going through Starter Opening.

Solved.. Thank You Guys... Now I can button it all up and Test Drive !

I'm beyond Excited !!!

 

[DSteele41]

2001 Ford Explorer Sport Trac 4x4 with 4.0L SOHC 4x4
I removed the motor to have it rebuilt and the torque converter came slightly out when removing the motor.
I am now ready to install the motor but when putting the torque converter back in, it doesn’t seem to seat all the way. When I get the torque converter over both sets of splines and spin the TC it makes a clunking noise. It really sounds and feels like the TC and pump gear didn’t get fully engaged with each other.
I checked the input shaft and it is seated all the way in as well. It sticks out a little less than and inch and only the splines are showing.
I am thinking maybe the pump gear got missed align or maybe the stator spline isn’t aligned correctly anymore? But I’m not a transmission guy. Any suggestions from someone who has had this issue would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

@Jwalhood

Not sure if you figured your issue out but I was having a similar issue.

See my last post on this thread.

 

[410Fortune]

Wicked good news, I hope the converter slid forward easily, this means that everything is lined up properly, the pilot has stabbed and you are good to go.
Now when you have it all back together, blow out the trans cooler lines, be ready to catch the dirty fluid that comes out of the lower line, blow compressed air (like 20 psi) through the upper line...........

if the transmission fluid was drained (I hope it was) add 4 quarts of Mercon V through the dipstick hole....then start it up, check for leaks....while its running, shift it through the gears, from P all the way to 1st...several times. Add 2 quarts at a time, run through the gears, check for leaks, check fluid level
These systems hold about 12-14 quarts total, again this is if you drained the transmission while the engine was out

 

[DSteele41]

@DILLARD000 @transman304 @410Fortune

Before I go Further.... Question:

Since I got the TC Pulled Forward is it Possible or Impossible to be in the wrong 4 Holes on Flex Plate ?

I'm bolting the Second Nut and can see the Stud but there is an empty Hole right above it

Are the Extra Openings in Fly Wheel for Balance and Weight ; Similar to getting a Wheel Balanced by adding / subtracting Weight ?

 

[410Fortune]

You are fine
Impossible to have them in the wrong holes.

You have the studs in the correct holes, there are 4 of them
Turn engine over at the crank pulley to bring the next stud into view, smash it down and tighten. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet and 14mm socket for this. 21mm on the crank shaft pulley. Engine rotates clockwise

 

[DSteele41]

You are fine
Impossible to have them in the wrong holes.

You have the studs in the correct holes, there are 4 of them
Turn engine over at the crank pulley to bring the next stud into view, smash it down and tighten. I use a 1/4" drive ratchet and 14mm socket for this. 21mm on the crank shaft pulley. Engine rotates clockwise

@410Fortune
Got 3 of them on... doing the steps above...

and now I'm Super Distraught after pulling TC forward.

I dropped the 4th nut into Bell Housing... Does this Mean I'm Pulling Transmission off ?

From Jubilee to Speechless right now.

Not sure if this is the right Forum Etiquette but if you could call me that would be helpful (405) 532-3904

 

[410Fortune]

you need a magnet is all
you can retrieve it with a small mechanics telescoping magnet

something like this
Hand Tool Sets - Portable Telescopic Easy Magnetic Pick Up Rod Stick Extending Magnet Handheld Pen - Case Mechanics Hand Clearance Screwdriver Sale Tool Sets Cordless - - Amazon.com

or

https://www.shelllumber.com/resize?po=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.orgill.com%2Flarge%2F9190398.JPG&bh=600

 

[DSteele41]

you need a magnet is all
you can retrieve it with a small mechanics telescoping magnet

something like this
Hand Tool Sets - Portable Telescopic Easy Magnetic Pick Up Rod Stick Extending Magnet Handheld Pen - Case Mechanics Hand Clearance Screwdriver Sale Tool Sets Cordless - - Amazon.com

or

https://www.shelllumber.com/resize?po=https%3A%2F%2Fimages.orgill.com%2Flarge%2F9190398.JPG&bh=600

@410Fortune

Got this from Napa

This should suffice ?

 

[DSteele41]

Wicked good news, I hope the converter slid forward easily, this means that everything is lined up properly, the pilot has stabbed and you are good to go.
Now when you have it all back together, blow out the trans cooler lines, be ready to catch the dirty fluid that comes out of the lower line, blow compressed air (like 20 psi) through the upper line...........

if the transmission fluid was drained (I hope it was) add 4 quarts of Mercon V through the dipstick hole....then start it up, check for leaks....while its running, shift it through the gears, from P all the way to 1st...several times. Add 2 quarts at a time, run through the gears, check for leaks, check fluid level
These systems hold about 12-14 quarts total, again this is if you drained the transmission while the engine was out

@410Fortune

I missed this message....

I shot brake fluid through both trhe upper And lower Trans cooler lines and let dry. Is that suffice ?

Also while I was at it replaced radiator and condensor ...basically everything is new except starter ....the Trans Cooler lines are not.

Transmission is new Reman from PTS Reman Company.

Does all sound like Im in Line to finish and flow your instructions on filling Transmission?

Also How can I be sure the TC has fluid ?

10.3 quartz is what the capacity says online and via O'Reillys ?

 

[410Fortune]

Did you also blow out the aux trans cooler?

as long as there is no chance of still having brake cleaner in your trans cooler system you should be just fine. The object here is to avoid contaminating your brand new trans with any of the old debris from the defunct unit

10.3 quarts is a bit low, with the 5r55e I always have 14 quarts on hand, you do not want to get to 10 or 12 and find out you still need more
The converter you should have poured 1 at into the converter before you stabbed it to the transmission. If you did not then do not sweat it, she will fill up very quickly when the truck is running
these systems for sure can hold more then 10.3 quarts, especially with a reman trans and clean cooler system
I have probably installed 20 of these v6 transmissions...Oreillys is a little short

You are doing just fine! Yes that tool will work it might be a little bit of overkill for trying to get that dropped nut, but it should work as long as its magnetic on the end
FYI those flexible reach tools we call the "grabby jobber" in the shop...........and I use mine all of the time........

 

[massacre]

@DILLARD000 @transman304 @410Fortune

Before I go Further.... Question:

Since I got the TC Pulled Forward is it Possible or Impossible to be in the wrong 4 Holes on Flex Plate?

I'm bolting the Second Nut and can see the Stud but there is an empty Hole right above it

Are the Extra Openings in Fly Wheel for Balance and Weight ; Similar to getting a Wheel Balanced by adding / subtracting Weight ?

Some Ford flex plates have multiple holes for different torque converter bolt patterns for different torque converters in different vehicles. As long as all 4 of yours fit, you are fine.

 

[DSteele41]

Did you also blow out the aux trans cooler?

as long as there is no chance of still having brake cleaner in your trans cooler system you should be just fine. The object here is to avoid contaminating your brand new trans with any of the old debris from the defunct unit

10.3 quarts is a bit low, with the 5r55e I always have 14 quarts on hand, you do not want to get to 10 or 12 and find out you still need more
The converter you should have poured 1 at into the converter before you stabbed it to the transmission. If you did not then do not sweat it, she will fill up very quickly when the truck is running
these systems for sure can hold more then 10.3 quarts, especially with a reman trans and clean cooler system
I have probably installed 20 of these v6 transmissions...Oreillys is a little short

You are doing just fine! Yes that tool will work it might be a little bit of overkill for trying to get that dropped nut, but it should work as long as its magnetic on the end
FYI those flexible reach tools we call the "grabby jobber" in the shop...........and I use mine all of the time........

@410Fortune

I will go get 4 more qts of Trans Fluid

You do make a good point ....
We did see if the old transmission was working and after we got engine in ...filled with oil and coolant and transmission fluid .....startes the truck around 3 short times ...did not drive it ...just seen if it would go into gear ...reverse / forward...to no avail....so thats when I bought the new Reman Trans ....I did not use the newly bought Transmission fluid from old transmission ....I bought new transmission fluid but its not in....I did retreive that Nut BTW with magnet ...but this sounds dumb but I lost 2 ..but only 1 came out but I did have the 4 nuts ...so Im basically lost if theres still one in bell housing...I think I uses the wrong nut on the first lost one ....but If I turn crank shaft it qould rattle Im guessing if 1 is still in correct ?

Back to above ...got off track.....I should flush new radiator and auxillary cooler it sounds like since I did start truck 3 times with old transmission hooked up?

How do I flush Auxillary cooler if you suggest I still do so and radiator ?

Just thought Id add what I did with old and new Transmission.

Thanks a bunch ...this forum is better than any mechanic Ive ever went to.

 

[DSteele41]

Some Ford flex plates have multiple holes for different torque converter bolt patterns for different torque converters in different vehicles. As long as all 4 of yours fit, you are fine

@DILLARD000

Copy that...now if I dont looae nuts I can wrap this up

Thanks Again !!!

 

[transman304]

@DSteele41 “so Im basically lost if theres still one in bell housing...I think I uses the wrong nut on the first lost one ....but If I turn crank shaft it qould rattle Im guessing if 1 is still in correct ?”

You need to retrieve the loose nut for sure. It will get bounced around and could cause some significant damage.
Brad

 

[410Fortune]

Absolutely
Turn the converter around again and make sure you have all 4 matching, 14mm lock nuts in place. If you used the wrong one on the first stud then you will know there is still one missing.
You can use a boroscope to look in there if you can beg/borrow/rent one of those.
You CANNOT start the truck with a loose nut inside the bellhousing!! NO NO NO

You can blow air through the trans cooler lines while they are hooked up to the radiator and aux trans cooler, just a little bit of air is all that is needed at 20 psi
You do NOT want to put a bunch of air through there as compressed air contains moisture and moisture/water will kill an auto trans in short order
There is a product made by Lube guard called Kooler Kleen, this stuff is designed to clean out the transmission cooler lines and system. You can always try a can of that if you are unsure if there is anything left in the aux cooler/lines

Listen I have installed so many auto transmissions in these trucks it is silly, you get really good at it and you collect tools to make life easier. There is a REASON I keep grabby jobbers, kooler kleen AND a boroscope in the shop, even experts drop converter nuts in the bellhousing, it is how quickly you get them out so nobody sees that makes you an expert

 

[DSteele41]

?

@DILLARD000

I lost (missplelled Loose above) 2 nuts in the bell housing / Flex Plate when bolting nuts to Studs on TC . But I believe I have the 2 out

is that what you were referring to (?)

 

[DSteele41]

Absolutely
Turn the converter around again and make sure you have all 4 matching, 14mm lock nuts in place. If you used the wrong one on the first stud then you will know there is still one missing.
You can use a boroscope to look in there if you can beg/borrow/rent one of those.
You CANNOT start the truck with a loose nut inside the bellhousing!! NO NO NO

You can blow air through the trans cooler lines while they are hooked up to the radiator and aux trans cooler, just a little bit of air is all that is needed at 20 psi
You do NOT want to put a bunch of air through there as compressed air contains moisture and moisture/water will kill an auto trans in short order
There is a product made by Lube guard called Kooler Kleen, this stuff is designed to clean out the transmission cooler lines and system. You can always try a can of that if you are unsure if there is anything left in the aux cooler/lines

View attachment 324974



Listen I have installed so many auto transmissions in these trucks it is silly, you get really good at it and you collect tools to make life easier. There is a REASON I keep grabby jobbers, kooler kleen AND a boroscope in the shop, even experts drop converter nuts in the bellhousing, it is how quickly you get them out so nobody sees that makes you an expert

@410Fortune
Well I'm now Expert of Course... but have learned a bunch... and that puts me at ease to know you've dropped nuts in Bell Housing
and Yes Yes Yes .... get them out to save yourself the embarrassment from Colleagues.... Luckily for me there was No One Around

I was very hesitant to post the fact that I did in this Forum