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Tranny flush question.....


BrooklynBay

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OSUChE

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Thermostatic valve?

Hi All,

'97 5.0/AWD LTD w/trailer-tow pkg and 160k.

Recently, I have pulled two fully loaded (7500# GTW) auto transports from the Pacific NW to Anchorage. It worked hard at times, but with no issues (other than that-all-too-common cracked passenger-side exhaust manifold annoyance, fixed now) otherwise; no problems. I've always taken good mechanical care of this rig.

However; it's time to service the A/T. There are no issues with the tranny now and I'm not wanting to rebuild the valve body just a filter and fluid. (If it's not broken...)

Last (st)ealer tranny service was 50k ago.

Fixing to service the tranny myself for the first time. I have a great deal of wrench-turning experience, but not on the A/T. I have read most of the posts in the forums and have a good idea how to proceed.

I'm going to use the inlet to the external cooler for out with the old and run a setup on the inlet for in with the new.

@BrooklynBay's comment below: I'm not familiar with a thermo-valve on the A/T fluid circulation system, where would this be located?

Thanks!
 




Spuddy

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Did mine TODAY

...@BrooklynBay's comment below: I'm not familiar with a thermo-valve on the A/T fluid circulation system, where would this be located?
The thero-valve is located in the valve body. It does not allow fluid to flow to the cooler(s) until fluid temp reaches 150F, so you have to let engine and tranny warm up before any fluid flows through the cooler lines. Since you have the tow package, you have two external coolers, one inside of the radiator (as they all do - called the "transmission cooler"), and also one mounted in front of the radiator (the "Aux Transmission cooler"), which looks like a mini-radiator. See my post #79 (above) for details from the Ford Service Manual.

I just completed my X's FIRST fluid change today at 127K

I can HIGHLY recommend the method that I used today: loosen the regular old hose clamp and then disconnect the outflow rubber line of the "Aux transmission cooler" (located outboard passenger side) at the cooler and then connect a piece of 3/8" ID clear vinyl tubing to the cooler - no hose clamp needed, very low pressure and flow rate at idle. I did not plug the rubber line leading back to the tranny, and it DID, in fact, have AFT flow back out of the tranny though that line, even though that line is the 'return to the tranny' line.

SO...
That answers my question posed above about the 5R55E...

I thought it had been determined that thee 5R55E doesn't suck... fluid through these lines, it just blows (or pushes)...?
Contrary to somewhat popular belief, this transmission DOES NOT SUCK :D (fluid anyway)...

I used graduated gallon water jugs to collect the ATF drained from both of these lines - the clear tube I had attached to the Aux cooler output and the rubber 'return' line - and stopped the motor after each quart drained and then added a fresh quart of AFT though the dipstick tube. It took me 16 quarts of new ATF to before I thought it looked the almost same coming out as going in. I did plug the 'return' line with a bolt after 15 quarts, and stopped draining about 1/2 quart short of 16 (to allow for the minor spiilage I had). Reconnected the rubber return line to the Aux cooler and topped off the fluid.

Before I started, the fluid on the dipstick did not look or smell too bad, but the first few quarts out of the coolers was NASTY!!! It was also not very hot at all since it had just travelled though the coolers. Process really couldn't have been much easier - I kept saying "WOW!" and "HOLY CRAP!" because I couldn't believe a) that I was actually doing this and b) just how easy it was and c) that I wasn't getting ATF all over myself and everywhere else!!! I did lay down a crappy old hunk of astroturf and a hunk of cardboard on top of that right under the work area, and later, another hunk of cardboard where ATF had been spilling down along the dipstick tube from adding fluid too quickly.

Could not have done this without the forum! THANKS TO ALL WHO HAVE POSTED! :salute:

Tomorrow, we tear into the VB! May the force be with me... :bdrunk:

I'll post my results in the Diary and maybe the Stairway to the Diary if I have anything to add that's not completely redundant!
 




OSUChE

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Thanks for the clarification on the Therm-valve.

I pulled the pan last night and although I was able to capture nearly all the fluid in the pan, I was still happy that I took the advice to put plastic on the garage floor first!

The fluid was remarkably clean. The pan magnet had metal the consistency of graphite, and not a lot; so no worries on that.

I'm not going to flush this time around, just the filter and replacement fluid. I did wipe the bottom of the valve body down well as it also had that light grey 'dusting' of dirt/gear wear as it is in contact with the sump fluid. The balance of the case walls were pristine.

Rick
 




fastgascar

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Resurrecting the thread: I have used this method on past transmissions, not one issue, not sure why this one would be any different.
1. Drain transmission
2. Remove and replace filter
3. Add same amount drained back in
4. Disconnnect return line to trans (place both ends in a bucket)
5. Start engine put vehicle in N(engages pump)
6. Run fluid out until flow slows(you will see a significant change within 1-1.5 min)
7. Reattach return line
8. Replace the same amount of fluid drained
9. Start the engine get trans to 100 deg and add accordingly
 




Toucan

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Here is what I want to do.

1. Use suction device with clean hose and send it down the fill tube to suck out oil. Others who have done it claim you can get out up to 98% of old oil.

2. NOW remove pan, filter, clean, replace filter and pan. and refill with clean oil. Note that some oil will also drain at that point so you get more than 98% out.

Will take a bit longer than draining pan but at least you get out most of the old oil in one shot. You avoid having to drain and fill and then drain and fill - sometimes up to four times before you start getting really clean oil throughout the system.
 




fixmiester

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Very wrong

Your process simply removes fluid from the pan; over 60% of the fluid remains in the TC. You must have the engine running for the pump to transfer the TC fluid. The dipstick tube only leads straight into the pan.
 




fastgascar

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Valvoline says that this fluid is fine for any tranny that requires Mercon V: http://www.valvoline.com/products/c...sion-products/automatic-transmission-fluid/37
Has anyone used this? Any problems?

Goes against this: http://www.aa1car.com/library/atf.htm

News Update: January 15, 2015
Ford Engineers Recommend Against One-Size-Fits-All Automatic Transmission Fluids

Engineers at Ford Motor Company have released a statement that says there is no one-size-fits-all-solution for automatic transmission fluids. The company says Ford transmissions are designed for use in many different service environments and operating conditions, and each transmission has its own set of fluid requirements. All Motorcraft Automatic Transmission Fluids (ATF) have specially formulated properties to meet unique requirements that result in optimal vehicle performance – something that cannot be achieved with just a single product on the shelf.

Motorcraft has boiled down their ATF offerings to eight fluids that service technicians and motorists can use to service all Ford and Lincoln vehicles. While the aftermarket may say there is a one-size-fits-all solution ("universal" ATF), each transmission needs the correct fluid to function properly.

Current Motorcrafts Automatic Transmission Fluids include:
MERCON LV
MERCON V
MERCON SP
Continuously Variable Chain Type Transmission Fluid
Premium Automatic Transmission Fluid
FNR5 Automatic Transmission Fluid
Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid
Type F


Ford engineers do NOT recommend adding cleaners, conditioners or other performance enhancing products to these ATFs. Specially designed performance additives are already included in Motorcraft ATF formulations, making additional additives unnecessary. Aftermarket additives do not prolong the life of the fluid or the transmission, and can mask transmission symptoms without providing a cure, says Ford.
 




Toucan

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"Ford engineers do NOT recommend adding cleaners, conditioners or other performance enhancing products to these ATFs. Specially designed performance additives are already included in Motorcraft ATF formulations, making additional additives unnecessary. Aftermarket additives do not prolong the life of the fluid or the transmission, and can mask transmission symptoms without providing a cure, says Ford.

The above is true. The Oil industry works along with equipment makers to develop the best applications. There is no need for additives.
 




Spuddy

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Mercon® V does NOT equal Mercon®

Valvoline says that this fluid is fine for any tranny that requires Mercon V: http://www.valvoline.com/products/c...sion-products/automatic-transmission-fluid/37
Has anyone used this? Any problems?
I just checked that link. Excerpt Below:

"Recommended for use where DEXRON, DEXRON II, III and VI, Toyota T-IV and WS, MERCON®, MERCON® SP and LV, Allison TES 389, Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J and Matic-K, Honda Z-1 (except CVT), Mercedes NAG-1, Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II and SP-III and many others are required."

Where did you see that this is good for Mercon® V ???

Easy rule-of-thumb is Mercon® V does not equal Mercon® !

I used Lucas Oil Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid -10418.

From the Technical Data Sheet (TDS):
"Meets or Exceeds: Ford MERCON®V, Allison C-4, JASO 1-A, Voith 55.6335, Voith 55.6336, ZF TE-ML 14 A, MAN 339 Z1, Z2, Z3 V1, V2, F and MB 236.9, Esso LT 71141, all GM specifications except DEXRON®VI, all Chrysler ATF, BMW LT 71141, BMW LA 2634" [my emphasis added]

Available (today) at Auto Zone for $8/qt. and Summit Racing for $8/qt. & $40 for a case of 6 (with free shipping over $99), which works out to $6.67/qt. by the case (with free shipping) - your gonna need ~15 or 16 quarts for a proper flush.

I used the Lucas - 10418 because A.) I think I like Lucas (go ahead, call me silly) and B.) because is was it was relatively affordable, compared to AMSOIL, etc...

No issues after 40K miles, so I still think I like it... :)

With the price of any atandard motor oil up to like $6/qt. nowadays, I thought this stuff was a real bargain!

:salute:

PS - If you see links in this post (like I do), they are not from me!
 
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fastgascar

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Application

I just checked that link. Excerpt Below:

"Recommended for use where DEXRON, DEXRON II, III and VI, Toyota T-IV and WS, MERCON®, MERCON® SP and LV, Allison TES 389, Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J and Matic-K, Honda Z-1 (except CVT), Mercedes NAG-1, Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II and SP-III and many others are required."

Where did you see that this is good for Mercon® V ???

Easy rule-of-thumb is Mercon® V does not equal Mercon® !

I used Lucas Oil Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid -10418.

From the Technical Data Sheet (TDS):
"Meets or Exceeds: Ford MERCON®V, Allison C-4, JASO 1-A, Voith 55.6335, Voith 55.6336, ZF TE-ML 14 A, MAN 339 Z1, Z2, Z3 V1, V2, F and MB 236.9, Esso LT 71141, all GM specifications except DEXRON®VI, all Chrysler ATF, BMW LT 71141, BMW LA 2634" [my emphasis added]

Available (today) at Auto Zone for $8/qt. and Summit Racing for $8/qt. & $40 for a case of 6 (with free shipping over $99), which works out to $6.67/qt. by the case (with free shipping) - your gonna need ~15 or 16 quarts for a proper flush.

I used the Lucas - 10418 because A.) I think I like Lucas (go ahead, call me silly) and B.) because is was it was relatively affordable, compared to AMSOIL, etc...

No issues after 40K miles, so I still think I like it... :)

With the price of any atandard motor oil up to like $6/qt. nowadays, I thought this stuff was a real bargain!

:salute:

PS - If you see links in this post (like I do), they are not from me!
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf

Also listed in the 2013 application guide
http://www.carquestprofessionals.co...F Application NON-Laminated Guide 6.10.13.pdf
 




Spuddy

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^ @fastgascar ^


That is not what you had previously linked to. That is their full application guide.

This is the recommended Valvoline product: Valvoline® ATF for MERCON® V applications (Part# VV360) HERE. [~MY LINK ~]

If this is what you were trying to referring to, it is probably fine, but I have no first-hand info on that product. In general, I do like Valvoline motor oils. :thumbsup:

NOTE: Any other links that you may see on this post are not from me, except as noted.
 




fastgascar

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That is not what you had previously linked to. That is their full application guide.

This is the recommended Valvoline product: Valvoline® ATF for MERCON® V applications (Part# VV360) HERE. [~MY LINK ~]

If this is what you were trying to referring to, it is probably fine, but I have no first-hand info on that product. In general, I do like Valvoline motor oils. :thumbsup:

NOTE: Any other links that you may see on this post are not from me, except as noted.
I used this one http://www.valvoline.com/products/c...sion-products/automatic-transmission-fluid/37
because it was lableled full synthetic, I then found out that http://www.valvoline.com/products/c...sion-products/automatic-transmission-fluid/35 was also full synthetic

I called Valvoline tech support and they said either was fine. My only concern is when I was watching it drip out it was foaming. So I was thinking that possibly what I used is counter acting with the leftover Mercon V that is in the tq converter, cooler lines and cooler.

After my fluid/filter change, I was on the highway and could smell trans fluid, I got to my destination, had it towed back to my home, then realized that It was coming out of the vent tube (probably over filled). So I went ahead and warmed up the trans, while at idle in park, opened the fill plug I let it dribble some more fluid out, I still noticed that it was foaming some @ the fill plug, but when looking @ the catch pan, it was normal pink color.

Valvoline says there is anti-foaming chemicals in the oil......Which led me to my quote about the Ford Engineers:

Ford engineers do NOT recommend adding cleaners, conditioners or other performance enhancing products to these ATFs.
 




Toucan

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The foaming normally happens with an "overfill". The makers of the oil do add additives/chemicals to enhance product performance as part of their product development. No further additives are required once they complete a production. At least that is the way things were when I was with one of the Majors.
 








Spuddy

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Further Clarification

Easy rule-of-thumb is Mercon® V does not equal Mercon® !
I probably worded my quote above BACKWARDS. It should have read:

Easy rule-of-thumb is Mercon® does not equal Mercon®V !

That is to say, Mercon is not suitable for use in Mercon V spec'd transmissions.
Mercon V is tighter spec'd than Mercon (now discontinued).

Mercon V is now the recommended replacement fluid for Mercon spec'd applications.

The notes in the above linked Service Bulletins clearly state:

"CAUTION: AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS / TRANSAXLES THAT REQUIRE MERCON® V SHOULD STILL ONLY USE MERCON® V OR DUAL USAGE FLUID LABELED MERCON® / MERCON® V."

Further notes from the TSB should not be ignored for other applications...

"CAUTION: MERCON® SP, MOTORCRAFT PREMIUM AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID AND MOTORCRAFT M5 ATFS ARE UNIQUE FLUIDS AND MUST BE USED IN APPLICATIONS RECOMMENDING THAT PARTICULAR FLUID. USE OF ANY OTHER FLUID MAY CAUSE REDUCED FUNCTIONALITY OR TRANSMISSION DAMAGE.

CAUTION: THE FUNCTIONAL CHARACTERISTICS OF FLUIDS FOR CVT TRANSMISSIONS ARE VERY DIFFERENT THAN THOSE OF OTHER AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUIDS (ATFS). USE OF A FLUID OTHER THAN MOTORCRAFT CONTINUOUSLY VARIABLE CHAIN TYPE TRANSMISSION FLUID OR ONE LABELED AS MEETING MERCON® C WILL CAUSE FUNCTIONALITY CONCERNS AND INTERNAL TRANSMISSION DAMAGE.

CAUTION: DO NOT USE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID SUPPLEMENTS, ADDITIVES, TREATMENTS OR CLEANING AGENTS. "

I hope this clears things up for everyone. It did for me...!

I have not posted any links in this post.
 




Toucan

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I am getting a bit rusty! I have always used Shell's Esso's and Texaco's products. Now, the last 2 are no longer here, the first is out of stock for quite a while. It was a new world to me when I went to Ser Stations and stores hunting for MERCON V. All I found were synthetic fluids - Castrol, Valvoline etc. Now I am not sure what my Trans has right now - well I am sure it has a Mercon V. I want to drain and refill.

My question is will there be a problem if what I have in is "non synthetic" and I put in the synthetic fluid.
 




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Hierarcy

I believe that MERCON V has always been partially synthetic based = semi-synthetic = synthetic-blend, etc. - whatever the folks from the Marketing Dept. wanna call it his week.

So, upgrading to Full-Synthetic and/or mixing with a synthetic-blend (etc.) - this would just be increasing the synthetic portion of your blend - would be no problem.

The original Mercon was NOT part-synthetic (etc.) at all = NON-synthetic = strictly petroleum-based = dino-based-only, etc., and should never be used in applications calling for higher-grades, such as Mercon V in our Explorers, etc...

SO, full-synthetic based would be tops, followed by part-synthetic-blend (etc), and then the lowly non-synthetic.

Someone please correct me if I'm way 'off base' here...
:salute:

Again, I have posted no links here - I don't know where those come from! Quite annoying - stop putting words in my mouth!
 
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Toucan

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Tks sounds okay. When I left the industry our company was not yet into synthetic products.
 


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Toucan

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OK! I need to decide!! These are what I have available
1. Lucas Multivehicle - Mercon V
2. Pure Guard Global
3. Valvoline MaxLife DEX/MERC VI
4. Napa - V
5. Castrol Mercon V
6. Lucas Sure Shift
7. SUPER S - MERC V
8. Havoline VI

Lucas Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid meets or exceeds Ford MERCON V, Allison C-4, JASO 1-A, Voith H55.6335, Voith 55.6336, ZF TE-ML 14A, MAN 393 Z1, Z2, Z3 V1, V2, F, MB 236.9, Esso LT 71141, GM Dexron, Dexron II, Dexron III H, Chrysler ATF + 3, Chrysler ATF +4, BMW LT 71141, BMW LA2634, Audi G-052-162-A1, Audi G 052 025-A2, MERCON, Kia SP-II, Kia SP-III, JWS 3309, Idemitsu K17, Hyundai SP-II, Hyundai SP-III, Honda Z-1, Mazda ATF-MV, Mazda ATF-M III, MB 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.10, Subaru, Nissan Matic-K, Nissan Matic-J, Nissan Matic-D, Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II, Mitsubishi Diamond SP-III, Toyota T-III, Toyota T-IV, VW G-052-162-A1, VW G-052-025-A2, ZF TE-ML 03D, TE-ML 17C, TE-ML 16L, TE-ML 14C, TE-ML 14B, TE-Ml 14A, Volvo 97340. Lucas Multi-Vehicle ATF is also recommended for use in all power steering applications with the exception of Honda.


VALVOLINE MAXLIFE DEX/MERC ATF
Performance Levels
Suitable for use in:
Ford MERCON®, MERCON®V, MERCON®SP and MERCON®LV applications


Which should I go with 1. and 2. choice
 
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