Transfer Case

[noles4life002]

So, my shop is saying I need a new transfer case. Two oil changes in a row the X-case oil was very dark. I get a noticeable whine, when I'm hitting the accelerated at speeds above 40-45. Shop said that it is having a hard time engaging the 4x4. I've never owned a 4x4 before, so I don't notice it. They are quoting 1k for a used x-case and 2k for a new x-case. First question, is it going to hurt the vehicle to leave it until winter since it's only for the 4x4? Second, does this make sense that the x-case would need to be replaced?


2002 XLS 4x4 Ford Explorer

 

[Verno]

#1 GET A NEW SHOP. !
#2 Does the whine occur all the time or only when in 4WD?
#3 Why was the transfer case oil changed anyway?

 

[noles4life002]

#1 GET A NEW SHOP. !
#2 Does the whine occur all the time or only when in 4WD?
#3 Why was the transfer case oil changed anyway?

1. What can I do to actually tell if it's bad?
2. All the Time - When the transfer fluid was changed, the whine stopped for a month and now it's back.
3. I had it changed during a 4x4 service.

Here's my other thread, the reason I had it brought in to begin with.
http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233628

Thanks for the quick response.

 

[jrford]

I pay for a heep, $650 rebuilt xfr case, mind you that was a NV242. They replaced all seals, bearings, ran like new. Not sure on the price of a Borg Warner 4411.

 

[noles4life002]

I pay for a heep, $650 rebuilt xfr case, mind you that was a NV242. They replaced all seals, bearings, ran like new. Not sure on the price of a Borg Warner 4411.

I'm interested in this. $650 just for the xfr case? Did you bring it to the guy in Royal Oak? Someone mentioned him in a previous thread I had. That's a 3 hour haul for me. How much labor did you pay to get it installed, or did you do it yourself?

 

[jrford]

opps, i hit post to quick.
In answer to your questions:
1a) No 4wd - drop two wheels in the gravel other side on pavement, hit the gas, if it goes then it seems to be working, there shouldn’t be much tire spin on the gravel side. Repeat in Part Time, and I would expect nothing to spin.
1b) always 4wd - you can't make drive a figure 8, trucks bucks and can not make a tight turn.
2) might be putting pressure on a bad bearing while in 4wd. I would also expect vibrations if there was a bad bearing. Also the chain, pump, clutch . .

Only way i know of telling is to put it on a hoist (safely) and put it in gear and see what happens. In auto only 2 wheels should spin. In 4wd Lock all 4 should spin. Also while in gear you someone might be able to pinpoint the noise. . .although i wouldn't crawl under it while its running 50mph. .

 

[jrford]

That was me, PM me, i'll give you his number, he should give you a quote over the phone. If your sure its the xfr case.
On my heep, 6 years ago, the xfr case went out, it was barely driveable. I called around this guy quoted me $650 pulled and parts, 1-2 weeks turn around, Orignal owner lifetime warr. Best quote i foudn and the best part - the quote dosn't change even after he tears into it. This guy also rebuilt my transmission with the same deal last month.

 

[Limited02]

In 4x4 auto the fronts will spin. So if you have 4x4 auto, High and low, then no matter what, you will not be able to spin the rear tires. If you can spin them, either the 4x4 module is bad or #17-18 fuses could be bad.

 

[rrgone]

You know there is no reason to rebuild or replace the t-case if it's doing what it's supposed to - that's engage the front drive shaft when it detects wheel slip. It could be detecting what it thinks is slip when it's actually a mismatched tire, or a faulty sensor or control module, or even a bad wheel bearing. Your other post makes it sound like that is what is happening. Not so sure now though if it's a constant whine from the t-case. Does it still do that binding and groaning when you are doing sharp turns?

 

[noles4life002]

You know there is no reason to rebuild or replace the t-case if it's doing what it's supposed to - that's engage the front drive shaft when it detects wheel slip. It could be detecting what it thinks is slip when it's actually a mismatched tire, or a faulty sensor or control module, or even a bad wheel bearing. Your other post makes it sound like that is what is happening. Not so sure now though if it's a constant whine from the t-case. Does it still do that binding and groaning when you are doing sharp turns?

I replace the control module when I had 4x4 high blinking. Since then, the buttons have worked like I feel they should. Kind of a noob when it comes to 4x4. (Odd in Michigan, I know)
I have not had the binding and groaning at all in sharp turns since it went away about 2 months ago. Tires are all the same brand. When I gave her hell in slushy snow, in 4x4 auto the back end was swinging around, in 4x4 high S.O.B. went straight as an arrow. I don't know that the whine is from the t-case and my mechanic hasn't eluded to it. That is the reason I brought it in initially. I have a friend that is a mechanic on Toyota Lexus Scion and he is sending me to a personal friend of his that runs a shop. He said that he's never seen a t-case in my explorer that needed to replace the t-case. Sure, he had to replace parts in them, but not a complete overhaul. He said that tends to be much, much cheaper.

I still am not clear if I'm hurting anything else by not fixing the transfer case. Please help the ignorant.

 

[rrgone]

I replace the control module when I had 4x4 high blinking. Since then, the buttons have worked like I feel they should. Kind of a noob when it comes to 4x4. (Odd in Michigan, I know)
I have not had the binding and groaning at all in sharp turns since it went away about 2 months ago. Tires are all the same brand. When I gave her hell in slushy snow, in 4x4 auto the back end was swinging around, in 4x4 high S.O.B. went straight as an arrow. I don't know that the whine is from the t-case and my mechanic hasn't eluded to it. That is the reason I brought it in initially. I have a friend that is a mechanic on Toyota Lexus Scion and he is sending me to a personal friend of his that runs a shop. He said that he's never seen a t-case in my explorer that needed to replace the t-case. Sure, he had to replace parts in them, but not a complete overhaul. He said that tends to be much, much cheaper.

I still am not clear if I'm hurting anything else by not fixing the transfer case. Please help the ignorant.

I dunno, you might have a couple of different things going under there now. If it didn't engage the front driveline when you got on it in the snow then maybe the mechanic you talked to is right about it having trouble going into 4WD while it's set at Auto. The whine might be the notorious rear differential whine that is common in these, since you are not sure where it's comming from. You could try changing the rear differential fluid for some fresh high performance 75W-140 synthetic and see if it quiets down. It's a pretty easy DIY job. I wouldn't screw around too much longer though if the whine turns out to be from the t-case.

 

[noles4life002]

I dunno, you might have a couple of different things going under there now. If it didn't engage the front driveline when you got on it in the snow then maybe the mechanic you talked to is right about it having trouble going into 4WD while it's set at Auto. The whine might be the notorious rear differential whine that is common in these, since you are not sure where it's comming from. You could try changing the rear differential fluid for some fresh high performance 75W-140 synthetic and see if it quiets down. It's a pretty easy DIY job. I wouldn't screw around too much longer though if the whine turns out to be from the t-case.

I did have the fluid changed on the rear diff and the noise didn't change. When I change the fluid in the t-case it went away for a short period of time. Why wouldn't you screw around too much longer if it's the t-case? What else can go bad if the t-case is bad? Not being a #####, I just don't understand the function.

 

[jlrapp8]

my 02 mountaineer AWD was making a clunking binding kind of noise when turning wheels all the way. seemed like it was getting hung up on something. someone told me to change rear diff. did that with 85-140 full synthtic and the friction mod. the specs said it should take 2 3/4 quarts of oil. but when filling it only took 1 1/2????? the noise went away for about a 2-3 days and now its back? should i pull the filler plug again and see if it needs more?? any ideas???
i think it might of been 75-140 NOT SURE

 

[rrgone]

I did have the fluid changed on the rear diff and the noise didn't change. When I change the fluid in the t-case it went away for a short period of time. Why wouldn't you screw around too much longer if it's the t-case? What else can go bad if the t-case is bad? Not being a #####, I just don't understand the function.

The BW 44-11 t-case hasn't had many issues at all compared to the Ford rear differentials in these Explorers. It does sound like maybe you have a support bearing or something going out in the t-case though. I would want to get it fixed before it seized up and destroyed the t-case. Good luck.

 

[jlrapp8]

my 02 mountaineer awd was making a clunking binding kind of noise when turning wheels all the way. Seemed like it was getting hung up on something. Someone told me to change rear diff. Did that with 85-140 full synthtic and the friction mod. The specs said it should take 2 3/4 quarts of oil. But when filling it only took 1 1/2????? The noise went away for about a 2-3 days and now its back? Should i pull the filler plug again and see if it needs more?? Any ideas???
I think it might of been 75-140 not sure

any ideas on this?????

 

[rrgone]

my 02 mountaineer AWD was making a clunking binding kind of noise when turning wheels all the way. seemed like it was getting hung up on something. someone told me to change rear diff. did that with 85-140 full synthtic and the friction mod. the specs said it should take 2 3/4 quarts of oil. but when filling it only took 1 1/2????? the noise went away for about a 2-3 days and now its back? should i pull the filler plug again and see if it needs more?? any ideas???
i think it might of been 75-140 NOT SURE

You might need a new clutch pack for the LS differential. Take a look at this TSB:

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/supplier/tsb/042420.pdf

 

[noles4life002]

You might need a new clutch pack for the LS differential. Take a look at this TSB:

http://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/supplier/tsb/042420.pdf

Ever feel like your thread gets hi-jacked?

Second shop looked at the vehicle on Monday. Confirmed that the transfer case fluid definitely shows that the transfer case is damaged. He has no idea to what extent without tearing it apart. He said going into 4x4 high locked well, but he feels the last shop may be thinking that the Auto 4x4 is not engaging smoothly. He took the vehicle home last night to listen to the howl from the back end. I mentioned the TSB on this thread, and he was very aware of this problem with Explorers. He was going to check out the axle code, but felt that it would be limited slip, due to it being Auto 4x4. I expect a call today from him with more information. He didn't want to fix the problem with the t-case, and when we get the car back it still has problems. Final question, can he make the determination from the fluid that the t-case needs to be replaced, and would you replace the t-case if it showed problems with the fluid?

 

[noles4life002]

So being the nerd that I am, I searched online for people who actual rebuild the borg warners and found a company Worldwide transmission group out of IL. They will sell me a rebuilt t-case for 960 shipped with core return. Would it make more sense for me to buy a rebuilt t-case, have my shop tear apart the current t-case, or buy a used t-case for 650? Has anyone ever dealt with Worldwide transmission group? I understand they normally do not sell to the public.

 

[jrford]

Good question, I had the same thought a few years back.

Used: now that i think about it - how many have we heard about on this board that had problems with the guts? Excluding the Module, Motor issues, your the first one if i recall. Figure you have the motor and module already, you only need guts, which seem very reliable so a junkyard or used - i'd be very tempted. . . .imho I was at one yard in detroit that i know and he has 5 Ex. 02-07's) but i don't know what a used one will cost. I wouldn't pay over $200 for it . .

Rebuilding old one: in my old XJ heep, the first xfr case i ever had to replace, different guy then the last time. It was stuck in 4wd, in turns it would make a wizzzing noise. The first quote was $600, upon teardown they found that the planatery was missing teeth, 'oh thats $600 alone" they said, then he tried to quote me over $1200 to fix it. I had that feeling, . . but they had the truck. So i called around and found one for $800 rebuilt which they matched. Unless the guy locks in the final price before, you could pay a lot more, . . .Now that i know the guy in RO, he is the only guy i'll trust now.

ReMan, comes with a warranty, to some extent, then there is shipping, what happens if its the wrong one? Returns are b##!h. They can test it to some extent on a bench, but will that tell you if its OK at 90mph?

hopefully this helps, or confuses it even more lol.

 

[noles4life002]

Good question, I had the same thought a few years back.

Used: now that i think about it - how many have we heard about on this board that had problems with the guts? Excluding the Module, Motor issues, your the first one if i recall. Figure you have the motor and module already, you only need guts, which seem very reliable so a junkyard or used - i'd be very tempted. . . .imho I was at one yard in detroit that i know and he has 5 Ex. 02-07's) but i don't know what a used one will cost. I wouldn't pay over $200 for it . .

Rebuilding old one: in my old XJ heep, the first xfr case i ever had to replace, different guy then the last time. It was stuck in 4wd, in turns it would make a wizzzing noise. The first quote was $600, upon teardown they found that the planatery was missing teeth, 'oh thats $600 alone" they said, then he tried to quote me over $1200 to fix it. I had that feeling, . . but they had the truck. So i called around and found one for $800 rebuilt which they matched. Unless the guy locks in the final price before, you could pay a lot more, . . .Now that i know the guy in RO, he is the only guy i'll trust now.

ReMan, comes with a warranty, to some extent, then there is shipping, what happens if its the wrong one? Returns are b##!h. They can test it to some extent on a bench, but will that tell you if its OK at 90mph?

hopefully this helps, or confuses it even more lol.

A used transfer case is $650 at the JY. This rebuilt is 960. Brand new from ford is 1650. I replaced the 4x4 module on this vehicle when i bought it 5 months ago.

The shop I sent it to is now trying to diagnose if the rear diff is bad. Another shop I talked to said, if it ain't broke, why are you fixing it? That the fluid may be dark for a long time and never have any problems. Or you could have problems the next day, it's hard to say. Basically asking me why I'm throwing money at something that isn't a problem right now. Telling me that fixing a known problem in the explorer, "rear diff" not a perceived problem in the t-case. I keep getting more and more confused.

/rant on So, now I can take it to RO for a t-case that may or may not be bad. Be without my explorer for 2 weeks and out money I can't afford, still have the rear end whine and have to throw money into that, all the while being on reduced hours working in automotive thanks to no one buying new cars. That may be a run on sentence. It'd be nice if these were engineered a bit better. Maybe this is why people aren't buying new cars? /rant off

**I forgot to mention - running at 90 mph? You must live near 696, cuz thats the going speed. Here on the west side we drive 77 and like it. You east siders drive it like you stole it