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U.S. Expands Probe Into Ford Explorers Over Carbon Monoxide Concerns


reserved50

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I think some ones splitting this up into two stages. The first one is a low amount of exhaust entering the cabin therefore they have issued a TSB on non pursuit vehicles or whatever it applies to. Then theres the large hole drilling with no sealer which makes people pass out and get sick, to say theres no issue on non pursuit vehicles is an understatement if that's what is being implied, shouldn't have issued a TSB for exhaust entering then:crazy: . So if you don't pass out or the allowable CO count in your body is within reason, means its ok?

Still wondering if they do the TSB to the pursuit vehicles when they are sealing them up which includes new exhaust turn downs and rear cabin vent etc.
 


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peterk9

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What I heard on WTOP (major Washington, DC area news station) this morning is that Ford is not buying that civilian models are affected. Live just north of you and travel in Monkey County daily to get to work in VA. Frederick police and MD State are still using their Explorers.
Going by the TV show "Live*PD", in which they cover different departments in several states, there are many agencies that are still using the Interceptor. Many of the segments show the vehicles going WOT many times. Never heard a mention of the "issue".

Peter
 




Sixonemale

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Article showing pics of modified police explorers with open holes Ford has found from the installers. More evidence that it is the upfitter for the PIUs.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ford-police-cruiser-carbon-monoxide-leaking/?ftag=YHF4eb9d17&yptr=yahoo

And I love this little gem.. "Tests showed potentially dangerous levels of the gas in her blood" It is either dangerous or it isnt.. wth is potentially dangerous ?

And then there is the piece where the NHTSA has stated there still have not been any co formation or proof that CO caused the accidents.

I tend to error on the conservative side of safety issues, "potentially dangerous" is enough for me, especially when I see articles like the one below:

http://wnep.com/2017/08/01/feds-inv...tments-pull-some-ford-explorers-from-service/

"Austin’s police department isn’t the only one to have been impacted by faulty vehicles. James Thibodeaux, captain of the Henderson Police Department in Louisiana, said one of his officers passed out while driving and crashed after she spent 11 hours in an Explorer."

“She was treated at a nearby hospital and was released the same day,” Thibodeaux said. “She had to undergo some oxygen level treatment because her carbon monoxide levels were near fatal 2 hours after the accident.”

Potentially dangerous example: If you are swimming in the ocean and see a shark fin sticking out of the surface of the water and the shark is heading your way, the shark is potentially dangerous. The shark may ignore you or it could be hungry and think you are a large fish. My better judgement says to avoid the shark at all almost all costs because the shark could be hungry and therefore potentially dangerous.

I think some ones splitting this up into two stages. The first one is a low amount of exhaust entering the cabin therefore they have issued a TSB on non pursuit vehicles or whatever it applies to. Then theres the large hole drilling with no sealer which makes people pass out and get sick, to say theres no issue on non pursuit vehicles is an understatement if that's what is being implied, shouldn't have issued a TSB for exhaust entering then:crazy: . So if you don't pass out or the allowable CO count in your body is within reason, means its ok?

Still wondering if they do the TSB to the pursuit vehicles when they are sealing them up which includes new exhaust turn downs and rear cabin vent etc.

This is getting humorous, a quote from the article:

"While showing images of modified and repaired Explorer police SUVs, Gubing described how holes had been drilled into the rear lift gate for wiring on some vehicles but not properly sealed during the modification process."

Did all owners that have complained in this forum modify their Explorer and that's why exhaust is entering their cabin? I for one did not modify mine.

Going by the TV show "Live*PD", in which they cover different departments in several states, there are many agencies that are still using the Interceptor. Many of the segments show the vehicles going WOT many times. Never heard a mention of the "issue".

Peter

Well Peter, carbon monoxide is tasteless and odorless, unless another constituent from exhaust that has odor enters the cabin, no one would know. Also, what's the harm in a mild exhaust odor for full day or nights shift?
 




peterk9

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Sixonemale

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I hope you're not serious.

Peter

Not serious at all, but it seems as though many in this forum are dismissing all exhaust issues associated with civilian Explorers. I'm not dismissing anything until the investigation concludes itself and makes proper recommendations if necessary.
 




peterk9

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Not serious at all, but it seems as though many in this forum are dismissing all exhaust issues associated with civilian Explorers. I'm not dismissing anything until the investigation concludes itself and makes proper recommendations if necessary.
I agree wholeheartedly. I don't have the exhaust smell but can't say with 100% certainty that there isn't any carbon monoxide in the cabin. But then again, I don't spend that much time in the vehicle. Longest trips are about 30 minutes. Just filled it up after the last time which was June 15th.
 




Zinc

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But is Ford even acknowledging consumer Explorers yet? What I heard today is that they are solely focused (bad Ford pun) on Cop Explorers and not on civilian models.
 




peterk9

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But is Ford even acknowledging consumer Explorers yet? What I heard today is that they are solely focused (bad Ford pun) on Cop Explorers and not on civilian models.
They have issued 2 or 3 TSB's for the Explorer.

Peter
 




BaseFan

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Many years ago I used to work on my friend's old Malibu and he cracked two exhaust manifolds (both on the same side). After the second manifold went, we checked everything we could before putting in the third. We discovered a weak but not broken engine mount. When he hit high revs, the engine torqued a bit at high revs and the engine lifted on one side as the mount flexed more than we liked but it wasn't broken, just worn. We replaced the engine mounts and manifold and despite even some street racing, the problem never happened again. We suspected the engine torqued against a rather stiff (probably cold) exhaust system and cracked the header.

Since they seem to link this to WOT... it just seems to remind me of that issue. The torque could crack or open the exhaust at any place along the entire exhaust. Just shows how hard it is to diagnose these issues..
 




Jon M

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Some interesting info.

http://www.those-who-serve.com/2017/07/29/ford-explorer-carbon-monoxide/

Also
https://www.policeone.com/police-pr...airs-Austin-police-SUVs-but-questions-linger/
"But Ford is still investigating why many non-police consumers have also complained to the automaker and the government about exhaust fumes — which contain odorless, colorless carbon monoxide as well as sulfur and other chemicals — in their vehicles. It also can't explain why there have been no carbon monoxide complaints about a rival SUV, the Chevrolet Tahoe, which is also used by police."

"But Ford clearly knows it has a problem with non-police Explorers. It has issued two bulletins to dealers — in December and March — telling them how to repair vehicles with exhaust in their cabins, and has told customers with concerns to take their Explorers to a dealer. It also settled a class action lawsuit over the issue in Florida last fall.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has found more than 2,700 complaints of exhaust odors in the passenger compartment in an investigation started a year ago. Among the complaints were three crashes and 41 injuries, mostly loss of consciousness, nausea and headaches. Many — but not all — of the complaints came from police departments."

"Gubing said the problem isn't found in police cars like the Ford Taurus because the exhaust is usually trapped in the trunk. But he couldn't explain why police departments haven't complained about the Chevrolet Tahoe, which is also fitted with extra equipment. Darrel Stephens, head of the Major Cities Police Chiefs Association, said he hasn't heard about exhaust problems in the Tahoe.

"I wish I could comment on their product design, but I don't have that," Gubing said. "This is not a Ford-specific design problem."

Gubing also said Ford has ruled out cracks in the exhaust manifold as a cause of the problem. NHTSA says tiny cracks in the manifold — a cast iron or stainless steel tube that carries combustion gasses to the exhaust — could explain why exhaust is entering the cabin. But Gubing said there is no pathway for exhaust to escape from the manifold and into the car."


I hadn't thought about it until now, but my 2005 Grand Cherokee had broken exhaust manifold bolts, at the rear of the manifold, on both sides of the engine. I never smelled a thing. I only knew because of the noise. I drove it that way longer than I've owned the Explorer.

My friend and I poked around, and couldn't find any signs of cracks or other damage in the exhaust system. When I demonstrated the issue, he was shocked by how strong the smell was.

There are work days that I spend 10-40 minutes out of each hour in the Explorer. On those days, especially if I have been driving it hard, I start to feel sick by the end of the day. FIrst it's a headache, then I'll get lightheaded and nauseous. I have to be careful to remember to open the windows and clear it out periodically.

Something that I've noticed, that I haven't seen any comments on, is that this issue seems to be more prevalent in hotter climates. A bunch in Texas, and we've had a few pulled in South Carolina, but the one in Mass didn't happen until the peak of the summer. I bought mine in January, and couldn't demonstrate the issue until late March, when it got hot. So, it seems that ambient temperature has some sort of affect on the issue.
 




dragonexplorer12

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I hadn't thought about it until now, but my 2005 Grand Cherokee had broken exhaust manifold bolts, at the rear of the manifold, on both sides of the engine. I never smelled a thing. I only knew because of the noise. I drove it that way longer than I've owned the Explorer.

My friend and I poked around, and couldn't find any signs of cracks or other damage in the exhaust system. When I demonstrated the issue, he was shocked by how strong the smell was.

There are work days that I spend 10-40 minutes out of each hour in the Explorer. On those days, especially if I have been driving it hard, I start to feel sick by the end of the day. FIrst it's a headache, then I'll get lightheaded and nauseous. I have to be careful to remember to open the windows and clear it out periodically.

Something that I've noticed, that I haven't seen any comments on, is that this issue seems to be more prevalent in hotter climates. A bunch in Texas, and we've had a few pulled in South Carolina, but the one in Mass didn't happen until the peak of the summer. I bought mine in January, and couldn't demonstrate the issue until late March, when it got hot. So, it seems that ambient temperature has some sort of affect on the issue.

This is a very good observation. I'm from the Philippines and we drive with AC on all the time. We also use AC under RECIRC since air outside is not so pleasant unlike in the US.

That exhaust fume smell comes in most noteworthy when all windows are up and AC on RECIRC. Before the TSB 12-12-04, you can get a whiff of that smell right away when you suddenly accelerate from 2500RPM to 3500RPM.

My dad has a 2017 Chevy Suburban and that SUV does not get any SMELL whatsoever even under WOT. So yeah, MR. GUBING, it's right of you to say you have no idea about their design but you do on the Explorer.

Another Explorer owner here has a CO meter in his vehicle. It registered 30 ppm. I googled 30 ppm and here is what it showed: "30 ppm - Earliest onset of exercise-induced angina (World Health Organization)".

If you have that exhaust fume smell, then it would be best to register it with the NHTSA. We don't have that kind of agency here in the Philippines, but if a considerable number of complaints have been filed there then it would reach here. All the Explorer units we have here are completely built units (CBU) from the US. Any recall there would also be applied there.

For the record, I have not modified my Explorer at all and yes my unit has that smell.
 




Dfred

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I got my Explorer back from the dealer late last night it took longer than was originally planned because Ford added a procedure to the latest TSB and they had to wait on the parts which was some kind of new sealant. I saw the Explorer in the shop and the entire back of the vehicle was taken apart, including the lift gate. I could make the vehicle get the rotten egg smell almost on demand before the TSB was done. So I will see in the upcoming days if it is fixed or not.
 




peterk9

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I got my Explorer back from the dealer late last night it took longer than was originally planned because Ford added a procedure to the latest TSB and they had to wait on the parts which was some kind of new sealant. I saw the Explorer in the shop and the entire back of the vehicle was taken apart, including the lift gate. I could make the vehicle get the rotten egg smell almost on demand before the TSB was done. So I will see in the upcoming days if it is fixed or not.
I believe the "rotten egg smell" is a different issue. It is linked more to the catalytic converter and/or possibly the level of sulphur in the gasoline you use. That smell has been around ever since the catalytic converter was introduce. It is not isolated to the Explorer. Since the cabin is not a sealed unit, some of that smell is bound to make its way into it but it is not something that should linger. There is a separate thread on this issue.

Peter
 




Michael W

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This is making me rethink my plan to buy a MY'18 this October. I am now considering a Yugo or Trabant.
 




peterk9

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This Yugo would be nice. Have you looked at the VW Atlas?

Peter

yugo.jpg
 




Dfred

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Well put 200 hard miles on the Explorer after the TSB....... tried as hard as I could to get the smell and the co2 detector to go off..... nothing..... and last week I would have had to roll the windows down........ I'm not saying it's fixed, but in my case it seems to be so far.....
 














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