Update: starting problems

[DonM]

Well last week the Ex was looked over by two Dealerships, and neither could find out what the problem is.

The Ex went 5-6 days with out a single starting problem, untill this morning when I went to leave work. This time it did somthing different. When I went to start the engine on the first crank, no start. Second crank the engine started and the rpms shot up to 2500 and slowly increased for about 3 sec, I then shut it off and tried it again. This time it started and went 2500, so I shut the engine off again. Next thing I did was primed the fuel pump, turning the key on and off a couple times. Then It started up with no problems and I came home.

Ive thought all along the Fuel pump is going. More so with the Check valve! Ive hooked up a FPG a few times and the pressure held overnight. Only problem is, I cant do this every night and I never know when the problem will act up. Fuel pump has a high pitched hum/whine and was very loud this moring after I got it started.

Dealer ship also suspected it was the fuel pump, but since they couldnt get the engine to act up, they had nothing to go by. So this means my warrenty will not pay for somthing that's not really broken.

Some of you have also sugested the FPR, which i havnt ruled out. It's just that the Fuel Pump seems to be more likely, but im not expert.

Note: Starting problem only seems to happen after the ex has sat for more then 5-6 hours, and cold weather seems to have a factor? Here in NJ, the weather was fairly warm for the last few days. A cold front came in yesterday and it was pretty cold last night.

I was thinking about taking the Ex to one more shop on Fri, but i think im wasting my time....

What a pain in the ass this has been!!!

DonM

 

[DonM]

Well, I decided to drop the Ex off at another dealer today. Same deal, they could not find anything wrong. They to say it sounds like the Fuel pump might be the problem from what I explained the problem is.

Since they could not get it to act up they only could go by what I told them...

Im about ready to drive the Ex into the ******* Ocean

 

[BillWms01]

Hey, I feel your pain!

Last summer my daughter's X had similiar problem. Sometime wouldn't start, then miraculously after a few minutes or hours, it'd start. I tried the fuel pump relay, engine control relay (or whatever it's called); no luck. Problem kept reappearing.

Took it to shop for one week, and got the same story you did; it didn't give them a problem, no codes, etc.

Finally, I saw on this board thread on the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Bought one at Autozone for ~$40 and replaced in 5 minutes. NO Problems Since!

 

[DonM]

Bill, thanks for the reply.

It's weird I tell ya, some times it startes and some times it doesnt. I might have problems for a few days and then no problems for a week.

BTW, when I turn the key in the on position the fuel pump some times stays on longer then the 2-3 sec. Did your daughters Ex do this also? What about a high pitched hum//whine????

I read about the crank shaft sensor, but I have a feeling it's the Fuel Pump?

 

[BillWms01]

Well, to tell you the truth, I've never heard the fuel pump. Maybe it's just my poor hearing!

For the first month or so, I thought it was fuel related too. The first time it refused to start, I bled some fuel pressure off the Schrader valve, and it started right up! I sure didn't understand it, but figured "I've got this thing licked.". NOT. Next time, I tried the same trick, and it didn't work.

Then, I decided to definitively determine whether it was fuel or spark. I would pull a spark plug, ground it and get somebody to turn the engine over and see if it sparked. Well, it was a good idea, but each time I tried it, the d#*& thing cranked (even with the plug out!). Go figure.

Then, I decided to take the $40 plunge (mainly because it was getting to be such a PIA having my daughter driving all over in an unreliable POS) and change the CPS. Knock on wood, it fixed my problem. And, other than that problem, and despite my lack of affection for X's in general, it's been a pretty good vehicle for her.

Good luck with yours.

 

[wreining3]

I had similar problems with a Buick Skylark a few months ago. Drove me nuts for a few weeks. No trouble codes. Every time I checked for spark it was there. Everytime I checked for fuel pressure it was fine. I finally left the pressure guage on the engine. The next time it stalled I immediatly checked the guage thinking that it would be at zero. The pressure was FINE! To make a long story short. It was the crankshaft position sensor. The dealer and the parts stores had sworn up and down that when they go bad the car just stops. It isn't an intermittent problem. They don't know what they are talking about. The car has ran great ever since I replaced the CPS. And the dealer should be able to check it with a meter. Hopefully this helps you out.

Wayne

 

[DonM]

Nah, it never stalls while im driving. It just gives me starting problems when it sits over night.

Im pretty sure it's a bad Check valve.

Another simptom is, my fuel economy is down. After I put the new TB and Apten chip on, I havnt noticed any difference.

If it wasnt for the Fuel pump running longer then normal some times, I would say it was the FPR.

Plus the Fuel guage started going screwy last week.( Or Im burning more fuel then ever?) I filled up the tank last Fri, drove 30 miles and the needle was on 3/4 mark! When the needle reaches the 1/2 mark, it drops down to almost 1/4 for a few miles and then it drops even more. I keep fairly good records of my gas mileage, it's pretty crappy considering all the mods a I have. I was getting like 450 miles out of a 22 gallon tank and this was before alll the mods! I should be getting atleast 500 miles with my mods.

 

[Mushkego]

Hi, just read about your problem and in my experience the first thing to check when dealing with ANYTHING electrical is the battery. One situation you described was the cold weather being a factor. One morning, hook up a DVM to your battery before you start your truck, turn on the key & measure battery voltage (should be @ 12.5 volts) then, crank your truck over and measure the voltage again. If it drops below 9.5 volts it may be the problem. Sometimes the battery will test fine AFTER you've driven the truck to the shop and had an AVR test done on it so checking first thing in the morning cold is the best way. But then if you've already checked the battery this wont be any help at all.

 

[DonM]

Mushkego, Thanks for the reply.

Battery is a few months old and working fine(tested it).

This is a fuel problem for sure. When the problem arises, it's hard to start, Fuel Pump whines fairly loud and the only way to get the engine started is by switching the key on and off a few times. Which leads me to believe the check valve is bad.

The cold weather does seem like a factor though, it's been 4-5 days since the temps were in the 30-40. Now they are 60-70 and havnt had a problem since last week!

 

[DonM]

Well I replaced the Fuel Pump Monday. New Fuel pump seems to be less noisy.

It still takes a few cranks to get the engine started. It's given me troubles twice in almost two weeks. It's not nearly as bad as it was over a month ago. Now it just takes a few cranks and it starts right up and runs fine.

Still not normal...

 

[2000Mountaineer]

Hi guys my name is Josh and I'm new here. I am having the same problem. I just had my fuel pump changed and I still get the hard start. It idles fine once its started it just takes awhile to start. It has 44k miles if that helps any. Does anyone have any ideas for me? How do I check on the check valve?

Also I get 10-12mpg in town and about 14-16 on the highway is that normal?

Thanks alot guys!

 

[DonM]

Welcome Josh.

Well, could be many things! As far as the Check valve goes, thats inline with the Fuel Pump, so the only way to fix that problem would replacing the Fuel Pump. Which you have already done!

My next step is to replace the Crankshaft posistion sensor. Im told they can cause a hard start.

Maybe you should start there...

 

[DonM]

Saturday afternoon i ran out and started the Ex with no problems. It had sat for over 12 hours!

Drove down to Wawa parked and shut the engine off, went in and came back out to restart the engine. Crank,crank, crank, vrrrrr. Third hard crank the engine started and ran crappy!!! Shut it done once more and retried for the fourth time, this time no problem.

I give up, either im gonna end up stranded some place one of these days or what ever the problem is will break fully.