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Water pump failure leads to dead engine

Should Ford cover part of all of this repair out of loyalty?

  • Yes, a water pump failure at 95k should not destroy an engine

    Votes: 95 88.0%
  • No, and please quit whining about it

    Votes: 13 12.0%

  • Total voters
    108

BlownGP

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The chain guides on these barely wear as long as they are taking care of. Just did a 13 Taurus recently with 130k and there wasn't a bit of wear on the guides. Put the pump in and put it back together, took about 7 hours total in a fully equipped shop. I'd do any of the cyclone water pumps in a driveway unless it's in an Edge. They can be done from the top but are super super tight. Only takes about 2 hours to drop the subframe in a shop.
So are you saying the 3.7L Cyclone pump is easier to change?

I just found this randomly seeing if there was cooler thermostat for my wifes 13 MKZ 3.7L
So now I'm freaked out. lol

Only have 45K on the MKZ so I guess I should be fine a while. but I guess I will get rid of this car when it close to 100K

I have to tell my parents about this too since they have a 2013 Explorer.
 
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boominXplorer

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So are you saying the 3.7L Cyclone pump is easier to change?
It all depends on engine bay. The Taurus, Flex and Explorer have much more room to work than Edge / MKX. There's a 3 hour difference in book time.
 

Odrapnew

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So are you saying the 3.7L Cyclone pump is easier to change?

I just found this randomly seeing if there was cooler thermostat for my wifes 13 MKZ 3.7L
So now I'm freaked out. lol

Only have 45K on the MKZ so I guess I should be fine a while. but I guess I will get rid of this car when it close to 100K

I have to tell my parents about this too since they have a 2013 Explorer.
Just curious as to why you were looking for a cooler thermostat.
 

Steve Ribbe

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I am joining the ranks of failed water pumps. I caught it before it leaked into the oil. 2013 Ford Explorer 102,000 miles, well maintained...end result is $2600+ Cost, conversations with Ford Corporate went nowhere when I called, and nowhere when the dealer called on my behalf. Fords official answer is no support since we bought the vehicle used (24k miles) when it was barely a year old. They did not care about our past or current Ownership of Fords....so I guess they don’t care about Future ownership either. Who in the world thought it was a great idea to bury a wear item deep in the motor!?

Anyhow, great forum and site! Happy motoring!
 

gdruss

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2014 XLT with 146k. The only issue I have had is the left rear wheel bearing had to be replaced around 64k.
 

blwnsmoke

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I am joining the ranks of failed water pumps. I caught it before it leaked into the oil. 2013 Ford Explorer 102,000 miles, well maintained...end result is $2600+ Cost, conversations with Ford Corporate went nowhere when I called, and nowhere when the dealer called on my behalf. Fords official answer is no support since we bought the vehicle used (24k miles) when it was barely a year old. They did not care about our past or current Ownership of Fords....so I guess they don’t care about Future ownership either. Who in the world thought it was a great idea to bury a wear item deep in the motor!?

Anyhow, great forum and site! Happy motoring!
Not sure what you were expecting? I wouldn't expect a manufacturer to do something when I am 42,000 miles outside of my warranty.

Regarding Ford not being concerned about your past or future history, Ford didnt make a dime off your Explorer purchase (you bought it used). I have seen Ford step up outside of warranty but not anywhere near this far beyond.

You also had a choice to buy an ESP which you chose not to.

Sorry that it happened to you. Your dealer is a little high on price, you should ask them if they would use some of their funds to put towards it that Ford gives them. If you aren't a frequent customer of the dealership, they probably wont as they typically use them to take care of their customers who frequent the dealership for service/sales.
 
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bigdude2468

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I mentioned this earlier in this thread but auto manufacturers do step up. Ford's response to the water pump and hood paint problems, a know defect are lame. GM had an issue with the 6T70 transmissions in 2007 - 2009 Buick's, Chevy's, GMC's, Saturn's & Pontiac's. They extended the warranty to 10 years, 120,000 miles, not only to the original owner but any subsequent owner. I gave my son a 2008 Saturn Vue in 2013. In 2017 at 104,000 miles the transmission failed. GM "happily" replaced the transmission, provided a loaner and gave my son a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty on the new transmission. Auto manufacturers sometimes do the right thing, Ford has chosen not to.
 

Sixonemale

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I mentioned this earlier in this thread but auto manufacturers do step up. Ford's response to the water pump and hood paint problems, a know defect are lame. GM had an issue with the 6T70 transmissions in 2007 - 2009 Buick's, Chevy's, GMC's, Saturn's & Pontiac's. They extended the warranty to 10 years, 120,000 miles, not only to the original owner but any subsequent owner. I gave my son a 2008 Saturn Vue in 2013. In 2017 at 104,000 miles the transmission failed. GM "happily" replaced the transmission, provided a loaner and gave my son a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty on the new transmission. Auto manufacturers sometimes do the right thing, Ford has chosen not to.
I have to agree that there is nothing more important than customer satisfaction, especially in the information age. Perhaps Ford can learn from Costco who has extremely high customer satisfaction scores or ratings and are now selling cars.
 

peterk9

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[QUOTE="Steve Ribbe, post: 3803468, member: 352125".................... Who in the world thought it was a great idea to bury a wear item deep in the motor!?

Anyhow, great forum and site! Happy motoring![/QUOTE]
Welcome to the Forum Steve.:wave:
Being that the engine in the 5th gen is installed transversely, there was no room to put it elsewhere. With the 6th gen 2020 Explorer now having the longitudinal engine, the water pump is now external, where it should be.

Peter
 

goochman

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I mentioned this earlier in this thread but auto manufacturers do step up. Ford's response to the water pump and hood paint problems, a know defect are lame. GM had an issue with the 6T70 transmissions in 2007 - 2009 Buick's, Chevy's, GMC's, Saturn's & Pontiac's. They extended the warranty to 10 years, 120,000 miles, not only to the original owner but any subsequent owner. I gave my son a 2008 Saturn Vue in 2013. In 2017 at 104,000 miles the transmission failed. GM "happily" replaced the transmission, provided a loaner and gave my son a 3 year, 36,000 mile warranty on the new transmission. Auto manufacturers sometimes do the right thing, Ford has chosen not to.
Being an owner of one of these I can tell you GM did not extend any relief to used buyers prior to extending the warranty. If original owner you got 50% relief, used none. Fortunately the problem was rampant and GM extended the warranty, however it was 12/12k after the fix not 3/36k as mine died 14k miles after it was repaired with no help from GM(I bought new). Im driving an Explorer due to the way GM "handled" me.
 
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bigdude2468

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Being an owner of one of these I can tell you GM did not extend any relief to used buyers prior to extending the warranty. If original owner you got 50% relief, used none. Fortunately the problem was rampant and GM extended the warranty, however it was 12/12k after the fix not 3/36k as mine died 14k miles after it was repaired with no help from GM(I bought new). Im driving an Explorer due to the way GM "handled" me.

Here is the warranty: This special coverage covers the condition described above for a period of 10 years or 120,000 miles (193,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership.

The defect was improper heating treating of the 3-5 wave plate. If the transmission fails for another reason GM does not cover the repair. I am also aware that customers that paid to have repairs made prior to extended warranty were reimbursed after the fact.
 

goochman

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Here is the warranty: This special coverage covers the condition described above for a period of 10 years or 120,000 miles (193,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership.

The defect was improper heating treating of the 3-5 wave plate. If the transmission fails for another reason GM does not cover the repair. I am also aware that customers that paid to have repairs made prior to extended warranty were reimbursed after the fact.
What missing is the history *before* GM extended the warranty - they told people who bought the vehicles used to go pound sand. It was only after a huge amount of these wave plates failed that they provided an extended warranty and reimbursed anyone who had to pay out of pocket. I know this situation well as I had a 2009 Buick Enclave that failed. The repaired tranny was warrantied 12/12k, not 3/36. You could pay extra for a refurb tranny to get 3/36, but the warrantied fix was a repair. 14k miles after the repair the tranny went again and GM did nothing for me.
 
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pdxgeek

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I am pre-emptively doing this job at 92k. Timing chain, tensioners, water pump, etc. Might as well for peace of mind not to worry about it for another 100k.
 

JAPeterson

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The sad thing is that your stock pump may last another 100k (not likely) and your replacement pump may go out in 5k, it is just a roll of the dice.
 
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dont slow down

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Just noticed last weekend while changing the oil in my 2013 Explorer that the coolant level was down to near the bottom of the reservoir. Its usually mid level as I checked it on the previous oil change. I'm really kicking myself too because last oil change I found this thread and ordered a sample kit from Blackstone to see if I have coolant in my oil and I drained the oil and completely forgot to take the sample as it drained. I'm considering running it for another week or so and then trying to figure out a way to take a sample without draining all the oil again.
 
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Ryan327

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Just noticed last weekend while changing the oil in my 2013 Explorer that the coolant level was down to near the bottom of the reservoir. Its usually mid level as I checked it on the previous oil change. I'm really kicking myself too because last oil change I found this thread and ordered a sample kit from Blackstone to see if I have coolant in my oil and I drained the oil and completely forgot to take the sample as it drained. I'm considering running it for another week or so and then trying to figure out a way to take a sample without draining all the oil again.
Use an oil extractor if you just want to take a sample and not do a full change. But normally oil/coolant mixed together looks like chocolate milk and won't have that deep black of used motor oil. It probably would have been obvious on the last change if it looked that way.
 

KayGee

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...the coolant level was down to near the bottom of the reservoir. Its usually mid level...
That is quite a bit of coolant. I want to say maybe a quart or close to it and should be easy to see visually if it was leaking into your crankcase (oil would be milky). Maybe check for a leak that is dripping onto the engine and burning off or possibly a leak into the combustion chamber (check your plug color).
 

dont slow down

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Use an oil extractor if you just want to take a sample and not do a full change. But normally oil/coolant mixed together looks like chocolate milk and won't have that deep black of used motor oil. It probably would have been obvious on the last change if it looked that way.
I might need to figure that out. So after seeing this I figured I would try something. If there is a good amount of coolant leaking into the oil then I should have pulled out more than 6 quarts. Luckily my oil drain pan was empty when I drained the oil, so I poured all my oil back into the empty quart bottles. I know you shouldn't ever really get exactly out what you put in, due to some still in the oil filter and throughout the engine. I got just about exactly 6 quarts, just a smidge under which could still be in the old oil filter. Also the oil looked black and shiny, not milky at all. This leads to this comment VVVVV

That is quite a bit of coolant. I want to say maybe a quart or close to it and should be easy to see visually if it was leaking into your crankcase (oil would be milky). Maybe check for a leak that is dripping onto the engine and burning off or possibly a leak into the combustion chamber (check your plug color).
I agree that's more coolant than can be accounted for by expansion and contraction. I bought a jug of coolant and filled to the lower cold fill line and I'd say that it took about a quart. So if I lost a quart of coolant, but only drained 6 quarts of oil, I would say I should have had closer to 7 if it was leaking into my crankcase. This makes me think I may have a leak somewhere else. We did have a major temperature shift here in the past week and a half, low temps went from the 60s all the way down to 30 this past week and half. Still a solid quart of coolant low is more than contraction should account for. I will have to pull my plugs and take a look at them. I just changed them March 6th and they now have about 28k miles on them.
 

boominXplorer

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Weep hole comes out behind the alternator, keep an eye out there for sure.
 
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pdxgeek

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The sad thing is that your stock pump may last another 100k (not likely) and your replacement pump may go out in 5k, it is just a roll of the dice.
True enough, but same with any part change. Its a PIU with 92k and many idle hours. The tensioner was already 5-6 notches out, which is right around the point it starts generating CELs. Still worth it to me.
 

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