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Water pump failure

It made sense to me too. I did a preemptive replacement of the water pump, on my 2011 Explorer Limited at 200,000 miles. My calculus was different from most because I use the care for Uber and Lyft. ie I make money with it. I budget 5 cents a mile for repairs and maintenance and it has been 80000 miles since the replacement.... so its worked out, And its running great

I now send an oil sample to Blackstone Labs on a regular basis and one of the things they are looking for is coolant contamination. Hopefully they will find a problem before a catastrophic failure. Whether they do or not, I'm planning for another water pump next year at 350,000 miles,

Albeit probably mostly highway miles, 200,000 miles is a lot on this engine without an elongated timing chain and/or water pump failure. How often were you changing the oil, at what mileage intervals? TIA
 



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Albeit probably mostly highway miles, 200,000 miles is a lot on this engine without an elongated timing chain and/or water pump failure. How often were you changing the oil, at what mileage intervals? TIA
If you look at consumer reports this generation gets poor reliability buy for mainly other things.
 






Albeit probably mostly highway miles, 200,000 miles is a lot on this engine without an elongated timing chain and/or water pump failure. How often were you changing the oil, at what mileage intervals? TIA

I use the car as a "vehicle for hire" (Uber Lyft and my own customers) 5000 to 6000 miles a month. Im guessing 50% highway miles. also a lot of idle time. Im in Florida so no potholes, and no salt. so the suspension and body are holding up well, Oil changes every 5000 miles But Im switching to synthetic and will extend the interval

Ive only done one transmission service And Im having another done next week and then every 30000 to 40000 miles

Ive heard others say that except for that one fatal flaw (the water pump issue) these engines are bullet proof.. So far thats been my experience too
 






If you look at consumer reports this generation gets poor reliability buy for mainly other things.
Too late for me to care about what Consumer Reports says. I own this thing... and my 278000 miles says they are wrong
 






I use the car as a "vehicle for hire" (Uber Lyft and my own customers) 5000 to 6000 miles a month. Im guessing 50% highway miles. also a lot of idle time. Im in Florida so no potholes, and no salt. so the suspension and body are holding up well, Oil changes every 5000 miles But Im switching to synthetic and will extend the interval

Thanks. I'm becoming more and more convinced that changing the oil on a regular interval basis vs what the computer calculates, which is usually higher than 5,000 miles, has a lot to do with the elongation of the timing chain that can adversely affect the water pump. Plus not driving the vehicle with harsh acceleration also helps. The last question, have you ever had your timing chain and related components replaced? TIA
 






Too late for me to care about what Consumer Reports says. I own this thing... and my 278000 miles says they are wrong
I don't know about switching to full synthetic with that number of miles on the engine. I've read that it could cause issues due to it being a 'thinner' oil. I'm not sure if that is true with these newer engines or not.

"In fact, some new cars require synthetic oil. However, one exception is with older vehicles, especially those with high mileage. The seals in those engines may not be able to handle the additives in synthetic oil. However, that doesn't mean it's impossible to switch to synthetic in an older car."

Peter
 






I don't know about switching to full synthetic with that number of miles on the engine. I've read that it could cause issues due to it being a 'thinner' oil. I'm not sure if that is true with these newer engines or not.

"In fact, some new cars require synthetic oil. However, one exception is with older vehicles, especially those with high mileage. The seals in those engines may not be able to handle the additives in synthetic oil. However, that doesn't mean it's impossible to switch to synthetic in an older car."

Peter
What I have read about this is synthetic oil has consistently sized oil molecules where conventional oil molecules vary in size and the synthetic molecules are generally smaller than conventional ones. If the seals are hard/worn then they can let the smaller molecules through where the larger molecules in conventional oil would not pass through. Don't ask me to verify this because chemistry is not my forte but it does makes some sense to me if the size of the molecules differ.
 






I don't know about switching to full synthetic with that number of miles on the engine. I've read that it could cause issues due to it being a 'thinner' oil. I'm not sure if that is true with these newer engines or not.

"In fact, some new cars require synthetic oil. However, one exception is with older vehicles, especially those with high mileage. The seals in those engines may not be able to handle the additives in synthetic oil. However, that doesn't mean it's impossible to switch to synthetic in an older car."

Peter

I had heard synthetic oil will actually clean the engine, removing any sludge present. Which is why when changing to synthetic the recommended to make the first 2 oil changes at 3000 miles.

The issue is that sometimes this sludge is what's keeping the seals from leaking. Remove the sludge and expose the leaks

both the royal purple and mobile 1 websites say that this is nonsense heres what I read on another site
wheels.ca/guides/the-long-run-synthetic-oil-in-high-mileage-engines/

Myth, Busted

In the past, a common argument against switching to synthetic oil in an older car was rooted in the belief that a synthetic oil would react poorly with the rubber seals of a high-mileage engine, causing them to break down and spring leaks where none previously existed. This was primarily blamed on the synthetic oil’s viscosity properties, which were said to allow the lubricant to find small holes in the seals and gaskets of an older engine, creating new leaks.

Like all good myths, there may have been a granule or two of truth to that argument years ago. To understand the skinny on today’s synthetic oils, we spoke to Sarah Nordin who works at ExxonMobil.

“This year, we introduced a new high-performance synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 Extended Performance High Mileage. The new oil is specifically designed for high mileage vehicles with more than 120,000 kilometres on their engines,” explained Nordin. “It is a full synthetic specially formulated to help resist oil breakdown, prevent sludge, and stop leaks in higher mileage engines.” That last point used to be the entire reason not to use synthetic oil in an older engine, a notion that is now seemingly biffed to the curb like yesterday’s recycling.


In any case I did it.
with mobile 1 high mileage synthetic, My first change was at 3000 miles second will be next week at 5000 and then at 7500 or as suggested by Blackstone labs
 






I guess it's a myth as long as you use the specific new synthetic although it may not apply to all of them.

Peter
 






It made sense to me too. I did a preemptive replacement of the water pump, on my 2011 Explorer Limited at 200,000 miles. My calculus was different from most because I use the care for Uber and Lyft. ie I make money with it. I budget 5 cents a mile for repairs and maintenance and it has been 80000 miles since the replacement.... so its worked out, And its running great

I now send an oil sample to Blackstone Labs on a regular basis and one of the things they are looking for is coolant contamination. Hopefully they will find a problem before a catastrophic failure. Whether they do or not, I'm planning for another water pump next year at 350,000 miles,
I'm thinking I'm going to have to do the same in the very near future and change mine. My 2011 has 112,000 on it and it's very stressful having this in the back of my mine. What makes it worse is our other vehicle is a 2015 Fusion with the garbage 1.5L ecoboost that have coolant intrusion issues. (bought used before the TSB was released) So Coolant problems are always in the back of my mind.
 






Hi all, since the thread was resurrected yesterday, I'll chime in that my 13 Limited with 150k has started dripping from the weep hole. While I'm typically a full DIY guy, after doing a little research and seeing what was involved and thinking about my work schedule next week I took it to the local reputable shop and dropped it off fully intending to have them do the work knowing it was going to be +-$1500 ish for the WP. Knowing they were essentially going to have the timing chain out, etc I asked them for the cost to install new timing chain, etc.

They called back a little later with an estimate of $1800 for the WP replacement and $3600 for the full job with replacing all the timing components (chains, solenoids, guides, etc). I figured the additional labor was an hour or less so this means the parts for the timing job (they were going to get them from Ford) run up to +-$1700? Just looking at the Ford Parts site for the major components, this seems like they're doing some extreme markup on the parts or am I off base in what the costs should be?

In either case, I didn't want to pay the extra $1800 and they declined to do the WP by itself without changing the timing kit as well. Them refusing to do the WP by itself was annoying but I understand it as its just as likely something could go bad on timing kit tomorrow and most customers would be back blaming them. So I picked it up and cancelled my plans for the weekend. I've watched the videos and while I'm not afraid of doing the job I do admit I'm not excited about doing it either, it looks tedious with a lot of bending over the fender.
 






Hi all, since the thread was resurrected yesterday, I'll chime in that my 13 Limited with 150k has started dripping from the weep hole. While I'm typically a full DIY guy, after doing a little research and seeing what was involved and thinking about my work schedule next week I took it to the local reputable shop and dropped it off fully intending to have them do the work knowing it was going to be +-$1500 ish for the WP. Knowing they were essentially going to have the timing chain out, etc I asked them for the cost to install new timing chain, etc.

They called back a little later with an estimate of $1800 for the WP replacement and $3600 for the full job with replacing all the timing components (chains, solenoids, guides, etc). I figured the additional labor was an hour or less so this means the parts for the timing job (they were going to get them from Ford) run up to +-$1700? Just looking at the Ford Parts site for the major components, this seems like they're doing some extreme markup on the parts or am I off base in what the costs should be?

In either case, I didn't want to pay the extra $1800 and they declined to do the WP by itself without changing the timing kit as well. Them refusing to do the WP by itself was annoying but I understand it as its just as likely something could go bad on timing kit tomorrow and most customers would be back blaming them. So I picked it up and cancelled my plans for the weekend. I've watched the videos and while I'm not afraid of doing the job I do admit I'm not excited about doing it either, it looks tedious with a lot of bending over the fender.
It's about an eight hour job. I know what you mean though and I would go to another shop. I was quoted about 1k in labor and about $800 in parts. I'm getting the water pump and timing kit done. They will look at the phasers and solenoids and see if its needed. With the timing kit they do offer one that is just chains, guides and tensioners. boominXplorer recommend do it at 200k miles but your only 50k away while I'm about 95k away. I don't have the Cloyes kit number but if your interested just let me know and I can get it for you when I go to work tomorrow.
 






@Rayxor Appreciate any input. The Cloyes kit I was looking at was 9-0738S which seems to be correct for the non-turbo 3.5.

One note is I'm only planning on keeping the Explorer another year as a daily driver while I finish paying off the wife's Subaru and hopefully let the vehicle supply normalize a bit. So I "need" to get 20-25k out of it after the repair as after that I'll either be keeping it as an occasional hauler or selling it.

The wife's heading out of town for the day tomorrow so I'm stuck at home anyway, so I'm planning to do the tear down tomorrow so I can take a day and go straight back to install as the parts get in.
 






Oh and I priced out what I thought the "full" parts kit was from ford. Basically everything that I thought would be a real wear part and it runs up to $1000-$1400 depending on exactly what you choose. So it still feels like a pretty healthy markup on the parts.

The problem with being a pretty competent DIY guy is that I just don't have enough experience dealing with shops on mechanical repairs to know whether this kind of mark up on parts is typical. The only work I've had done by somebody else in the last 8-10 years was either warranty work or insurance paid.
 






Hi all, since the thread was resurrected yesterday, I'll chime in that my 13 Limited with 150k has started dripping from the weep hole. While I'm typically a full DIY guy, after doing a little research and seeing what was involved and thinking about my work schedule next week I took it to the local reputable shop and dropped it off fully intending to have them do the work knowing it was going to be +-$1500 ish for the WP. Knowing they were essentially going to have the timing chain out, etc I asked them for the cost to install new timing chain, etc.

They called back a little later with an estimate of $1800 for the WP replacement and $3600 for the full job with replacing all the timing components (chains, solenoids, guides, etc). I figured the additional labor was an hour or less so this means the parts for the timing job (they were going to get them from Ford) run up to +-$1700? Just looking at the Ford Parts site for the major components, this seems like they're doing some extreme markup on the parts or am I off base in what the costs should be?

In either case, I didn't want to pay the extra $1800 and they declined to do the WP by itself without changing the timing kit as well. Them refusing to do the WP by itself was annoying but I understand it as its just as likely something could go bad on timing kit tomorrow and most customers would be back blaming them. So I picked it up and cancelled my plans for the weekend. I've watched the videos and while I'm not afraid of doing the job I do admit I'm not excited about doing it either, it looks tedious with a lot of bending over the fender.
Run from that shop. If they don't want to do the water pump without doing everything then they are out to make money, not help customers. With that being said even at 150k as long as inside looks clean and no sludge is throw a pump and a timing chain (chain itself) in and let it eat. There's a guy on here with 300k+ on original phasers. If you break a guide in the process Ford does sell everything separately. The little guide under the bank 1 intake cam has broken on me before upon removal but I think its $16 or less from Ford.
 






The shop is known for doing good work and being neither cheap nor expensive. They are also well known as standing behind their work. So it doesn't bother me all that much that they took the position they did. The cost is another question though and that seems a bit steep.

I order the Cloyes kit this morning with the inlet and valve cover gaskets from Rockauto. As rental cars are $90 a day now and my wife needs her car early next week, I went ahead an paid the extra $50 for expedited shipping to have the parts tomorrow from Rockauto. The local dealer has the water pump and other parts and I'm headed down to pick them up shortly. I'm planning to start tomorrow and with any luck I'll have it buttoned up in time to BBQ on Sunday.
 






Oh and I priced out what I thought the "full" parts kit was from ford. Basically everything that I thought would be a real wear part and it runs up to $1000-$1400 depending on exactly what you choose. So it still feels like a pretty healthy markup on the parts.

The problem with being a pretty competent DIY guy is that I just don't have enough experience dealing with shops on mechanical repairs to know whether this kind of mark up on parts is typical. The only work I've had done by somebody else in the last 8-10 years was either warranty work or insurance paid.
Welcome to the Forum Mike. :wave:
The Ford parts site is the most expensive one out there that I know of.
The following are much better if you are the one ordering the parts.
Discount Ford Performance Parts, Lincoln Accessories | Levittown Ford This is a forum vendor and discounts are available for forum members.
Some members have also used Rockauto to source parts.

Peter
 






Peter,

Thanks, I've lurked the forums for a long time as I've had one explorer or another from the early 2000s and gotten a lot of info here. I ordered the cloyes kit and some of the gasket sets from Rockauto mostly because they had reasonably priced expedited shipping.

I was just using the Ford parts site as a reference for how the shop could have arrived at the number they did for the additional timing kit work. I agree that the Ford Parts site itself is pretty stout on pricing.

Mike
 






For my 2016 Sport, the quote (Ford Dealership) is as follows:
$432.93 Parts (WP, Chain, Tensioner,Sealant, Gaskets, Flanged Bolt, Antifreeze)
$1740 Labor
$130.38 Tax
-----------
$2303.31

They forgot to add the oil change to the quote. so add another $50
 



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Well, not everything is here yet, but so far my cost for parts is looking to be approx $660 including:
1. WP - from Ford
2. Special secret squirrel Ford silicone for the front cover
3. 4 phasor bolts
4. camshaft holding tool
5. TP55 torx
6. Cloyes timing chain kit with chains, guides, all tensioners, and crank sprocket
7. front seal
8. inlet plenum gasket
9. both head cover gaskets and a bunch of the other small rubber seals for the cover

Most everything ordered from Rockauto and I opted for express to get the parts by tomorrow night so I can try and get it wrapped up Saturday. It was a weird deal that ordering the cloyes kit with the water pump plus the increase in expedited shipping cost actually was pretty much the same as getting the WP from Ford so thats why I ended up going that route as I wanted to get the phasor bolts locally in case I didn't end up needing to pull all the phasors I could just return the other ones locally pretty easy.

Add in oil, coolant, etc and I'm guessing I'll have 20 hrs of my time and maybe $800 in it by the end?
 






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