What should the inside of my starter look like? | Ford Explorer Forums

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What should the inside of my starter look like?

RangerX

Elite Ranger
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Omao, Kaua’i
Year, Model & Trim Level
'93 Ranger XLT 4X4
I've gone through two or three starters in the 20 years I've had this Ranger, but I've never opened one up before today.
Should it be dry inside, or not? Mine's well coated in a red oil, like ATF or something. Normal or not? :D
 



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Normally a 20+ year old OE Ford starter will just have a ton of powder in it (from the wearing of the brush contacts), most of it stuck to the inner walls of the housing between the magnets, and some on the rest of the parts.

Red oil would probably be ATF, or might be Type F from the power steering, although usually oil-soaked starters are fairly common, especially when they are located below leaky valve covers and rear main seals like they are on the Explorer.

If you're using one of those gold zinc aftermarket starters, there's no telling, they could use some kind of oil/lube from the factory for some reason - maybe to allow the armature to spin if it's a tight fit in the housing with the magnets. I haven't taken apart ANY starters that had oil or any lube other than a tiny tiny amount for the end bushings though. Could even be that particular starter received too much bushing lube and so it leaked everywhere, and the armature spun it everywhere over the life of the starter.



You can probably just clean up the oil, replace the brush assembly, check the bushings, and have a like-new starter, even if you need to buy a rebuild kit to get the parts. If it's a cheap aftermarket starter anyway, you can buy 'em for $50-70.

If you think it's from a leak, generally if you clean up the block all around the starter, and keep checking it every so often after a few days of driving, you can find where a fluid leak is coming from. Of course, if you've replaced valve cover gaskets, a PS pump, changed the rear main seal, etc. then the ATF/oil might be from a leak you've long since fixed.


I'm still on the original starter, only having replaced the brush assembly once at 220,000+ miles since the brushes wore down. If you're going through starters, it may be from that fluid leak, or the starter-mounted solenoid might be going bad, not the entire starter itself. If nothing else, it's worth your while to take an old starter apart to try to figure out what's going on.
 












I do have a leaky engine. Oil at the rear main seal, and fluid at the steering gearbox. So I guess it's from that. The power steering leak is next on the list, the rear main seal may never happen.

This starter was from Autozone with a lifetime warranty, but now I live a plane trip away from the nearest Autozone. :rolleyes:

I haven't checked the price on a new starter here, but stuff tends to be a lot higher than the mainland so I was searching about rebuilding it.
We only have Oreillys and Napa, I'll check for a rebuild kit and decide.
Any advice or link on doing that would be appreciated.
Meanwhile, I pulled the starter from my spare Ranger and put it in #1 .
 






What are the symptoms that caused you to pull the starter? Was it not cranking, clicking, nothing?

The only thing a starter usually needs a rebuild from is when the brushes wear down. These Ford starters are super-easy to replace the brush assemblies in, just pop the end cap off, remove the wire from the solenoid, remove the old brush assembly, put the new brush assembly in, reconnect the wire, put the end cap back on, reinstall starter.

Of course its often better if you take it completely apart and clean out all the old brush dust. After a brush assembly has been replaced once, it's a good idea to replace the bushings on the next brush replacement, which is pretty much doing a complete rebuild. You can even get replacement end caps with one of the bushings already pressed in, making the job even easier.


If you're having other starter problems, like the starter not even clicking, not working at all, as I posted above, it may be the solenoid on the starter itself, not the actual internal parts of the starter that are the problem. Rebuilding it might not change anything if there's other mechanical issues or if it's the solenoid.

Since you're saying there's fluid inside the starter, and there are fluid leaks on the engine, it may be that the solenoid itself has some fluid inside it and that's causing it to have problems. You should probably take the solenoid off the starter, see if anything comes out of it, and work the plastic piston to make sure it moves smoothly.

You can get a Ford-style solenoid pretty cheap, they are super common as they came on just about all the starters on Ford vehicles from the 80's and 90's. The starters are fairly specific to an engine/transmission combo, but the solenoids aren't. The only big difference in the soleniods is the newer ones had a screw-on terminal for the starter wire, where the original older design that came on 91-94 Explorers used a spade terminal. You may already have used a screw-on terminal starter with a spade-to-screw-style wire adapter from buying starters at auto parts stores.

If you just want another starter, O'Reilly's and NAPA both offer lifetime warranty starters, but O'Reilly's is probably the same as Autozone's. You can also find the gold zinc starters for 91-97's on ebay for $50-70 with free shipping, and of course places like Rockauto have them as well.

You might also consider sending the starter and autozone receipt/info to a family or forum member on the mainland via USPS flat rate box, having them do an exchange at AZ, and sending it back in a flat rate box. Shipping both ways might cost you less than a solenoid and you get a whole new starter.
 












Anime, first, thanks for the in depth responses. I'm getting a click. The first time, I was at the store, so I crawled under and taptaptapped the case and it started. I came home and cleaned all connections at starter and battery. Then I got the click again, and tapping didn't work. That's when I pulled it and opened it up, thinking it's probably brushes.
Tomorrow, I'll open it again and try to get a good pic to show the fluid. I'll also open and check the solenoid like you describe.
I'll look if I still have the AZ receipt, but I think I tossed it when I moved here, thinking it was pointless to keep.
 






I know that you're limited on auto parts retailers where you live. Which place is the closest to where you live? Maybe they could bench test your starter?

Oreillys will test it, but from past visits at chain parts stores getting things tested, I know it's just a pass/fail from the test box, if it spins it passes, and this starter is not fully dead yet. It will start (spin) sometimes. I'd like to try to rehab this one. And since I swapped in the 'spare', the pressure if off and I can try to fix it myself.
 












Does your starter have contacts inside of it? When my Paseo had the click symptoms, the contacts inside were worn. It got to where I would attempt to start like 10-15 times, and it then would crank once.
 






If a starter just clicks, but giving it a whack gets it to start the engine, usually it's worn brushes, especially so if this repeats every time you try to start it.

Usually worn brushes only happen with very high mileage, but maybe cheaper starters have cheaper brushes that wear out faster. It might also be that the oil that's in the starter affects the brushes, making them slighty softer and so they wear down quicker.

If you open a starter, worn brushes should be very obvious - brushes that are worn so much the starter is clicking will be worn down so small, the springs in the retainer part of the brush assembly will be fully extended and they will still barely make it to the center hole where the armature goes.

New brush assemblies are pretty cheap, ~$10-15 on ebay, free shipping.
 






Looking forward to seeing this continue.

Anime, great responses!
 












New $59.59 Starter (Manual):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-91-...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c21ae483a&vxp=mtr

New $58.15 starter (Automatic):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Starter...ts=Model:Explorer&hash=item1c15abc7fd&vxp=mtr


Brush Assembly:

One for $9.85 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/STARTER-BRU...Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e88da27c8&vxp=mtr

Another $9.85: http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-STARTER...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ae405f269&vxp=mtr

Yet another for $9.85 - http://www.ebay.com/itm/FORD-PMGR-S...Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a4b5a40d2&vxp=mtr

(Note I am not endorsing ANY of these sellers.)

You can find more brush assemblies from $9.85 to $12.00+ by searching on ebay for "FORD PGMR STARTER BRUSH"
 






...After reading the title I was so hoping Bill got out the BFH and was going to show us all the parts he found inside..:D

First thing I would have done would be check battery voltage then have someone crank it and see what the battery voltage dropped to during click..

Next I would have taken a pair of pliers across the starter relay with key on in park/neutral to rule out relay..

You can also run direct to starter to get it to crank like a bench testor for more fun you can pull the starter and try starting it with jumper cables with the starter between your feet..party favorite..:)

iirc, Rick has a great thread on here somewhere about buildind a starter..
 






Okay, new posts here have caused me to get off my ass and continue this. :D
I opened up the starter again just now, it doesn't seem as oily as my first impression. I did disassemble it further than before, and found what i believe are the brushes.
Anime's comment about bad brushes being so far worn down makes me think these are not worn much, assuming these are the brushes! Electric motors are not my strong suit.
Also, to get this piece separated from the starter end cap, I need to remove two small bolts, smaller than the long bolts that run straight through the starter. The long bolts take a 5/16 socket, but on the small ones, 1/4" is too big and 7/32 is too small. What the hell is in between!? Maybe it's metric, but I don't have metric that tiny...
 

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Those brushes aren't worn much, they stick into the center plenty and so have lots of starts left to go.

6mm is between 7/32" (5.55mm) and 1/4" (6.35mm).

You should really get a metric set of any sockets you don't already have, especially 1/4" drive for taking apart smaller stuff. Most stuff on vehicles is metric.
 






6mm, thanks! I have that in a box wrench. I looks to me like I need that end cap/cover off to get the brushes around the copper piece when I reassemble.
So If the brushes are okay, what's the next most likely thing?
The battery is two weeks old. I could follow Ted's suggestion of ruling out the relay by jumping at the starter relay... What else fails?
 






You'll probably need to take the end cap off. It's tricky to get all four brushes pushed back to slip it over the armature without the plastic ring made for the job (it comes with some aftermarket brush assemblies to make the install easy), but you can do it if you hold the brushes back using two fingers from each hand on either side, holding the brushes back with a fingertip on only half the brush, letting the other half clamp onto the armature, then just slide it on the rest of the way. Either that or find a plastic cap or wooden dowel the same diameter as the inner part of the brush assembly, use that to hold the brushes back, slip it over the armature, and slowly slide it back to let the brushes click against the armature, but without messing them up. They are pretty soft and will chunk or lose material if scrubbed with something rough. They'll still work ok, but every tiny bit of material they lose is less electrical contact and less electricity getting to the starter, so less torque.

Before you put the starter back together though, look at it and make sure all the magnets (the curved black things inside the metal housing and around the inner copper armature) are stuck on there good. The magnets should not move and should not have any cracks, or otherwise be damaged. If there's any damage to anything inside the starter, that will prevent it from spinning and so the solenoid will just click but the starter can't use the electrical energy to do anything if it's stuck, or at the very least will be noisy after awhile of starting with loose parts inside.


Since Ford vehicles have two starter solenoids (one at the fender near the battery, one on the starter) you need to be sure they are both good, sometimes the fender relay goes and it's the only original part left in the system but nobody suspects it. If it works fine with the other starter though, that should mean the fender relay is good and the relay on the starter might be bad.

You might also want to check the battery cables, in particular the ends near the battery for green/blue on the copper wire showing corrosion, and check the ground point for the negative wire on the frame and at the engine block. It's rare that a bad ground is the cause, but the combo of old corroded cables, a rusty crusty frame ground, and an oily wet engine block ground can be enough to make a starter click instead of spin.


If there are no starting issues with the other starter on there for now, then it's likely just something to do with the starter, possibly the solenoid. I haven't heard of too many issues with them, even on the cheapo China-made gold zinc ones, but there are plenty of vehicles where the cheapo solenoids on the starters constantly go bad, but the solenoid costs about as much as a starter, so it's cheaper/easier to just keep replacing the starter.

You should also be sure the small positive wire to the starter solenoid is on there good - if it's loose (which is why they went from the spade terminal to the stud terminal, some spade connectors were never pushed all the way on, so a lot of 'starter problems' were just DIYers or techs that didn't push the terminal on enough or where the female spade connector was loose and just never adjusted with pliers to clamp on tight to the male terminal) it won't make a good connection and again, it'll be enough of a connection to make it click but not enough to spin.
 



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..and even if the battery is new I would test it as mentioned..

Any updates yet?
 






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