Wheel bearing again?

[07EddyB]

I'm getting a roar and vibration starting about 60 and trailing off around 75. Seems to be coming from the front. I can definitely feel it in the steering wheel and the drivers floor board. As it has gotten worse over the last month it seems to be louder in a left turn. The vehicle has 95K on it now. So - passenger front bearing - right?
Well - that bearing was replaced with a Timken in Nov 15 - about 10K ago. At that point, I was getting a vibration and went with replacing the OEM bearing with 80K+. I seem to recall that it helped but didn't go away completely. The driver front was replaced around 30K - the rears are OEM. I'm hoping against a rear - I don't have a press or an extra vehicle for extended down time.
That's the story - what direction are you leaning toward?

Edit - this is the bearing on the front right -
Timken HA590156 Front Wheel Bearing and Hub Assembly

 

[tripplec]

Jacking up suspected wheel and testing for play will pretty much reveal a failing bearing and spinning it as well.

For me its a guess as to whether its fronts or rear. But any steering vibration is pretty much telling you its at the front.

 

[Tech By Trade]

How tight did you torque that cv nut?

 

[Explorer_PL]

Tripplec - Front hubs usually have no play when going bad, just humming noise.

The rears develop play initially and you can buy few hundred miles by tightening the 35 mm CV nut and then you really need to replace them, unless they are really shot and they grind against the e-brake, that's another warning sign about the rears.
I replaced both my fronts about 25k ago and I start hearing again something from there. I used Timkens, and either one of them just went bad or I over-tighten that nut.
But even Timken bearing can go bad quickly.

 

[tripplec]

OH,
I stand corrected as I don't have experience on this vintage of Explorer. Other vehicle I have worked on with them are the 02 Exp;orer and an older AstroVan AWD all share the same type of bearing design with internal ABS sensor. All got play detectable testing jacked up 3-9 & 12-6 oclock position. grinding when turning as well. I tightened the CV shaft nut on them with a couple of hits of the Air gun and good to go on the replaced bearing..

So this is a different beast to diagnose when its going.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Left hand turn will be your passenger front bearing. If that CV nut isn't torqued to 183 lbs foot it will take out the bearing in around 10k.

 

[07EddyB]

How tight did you torque that cv nut?

Good question - I don't remember the exact value right now but I got the torque on line. I do remember it being lower that I thought it should be though - I'm thinking in the 160 range. While we're on the subject - I'm having a hard time wrapping my little brain around why the axle nut torque is so important on this job when the same bearing is used for a 2wd with no front axles. How can preload come into play here?

 

[Tech By Trade]

Good

Good question - I don't remember the exact value right now but I got the torque on line. I do remember it being lower that I thought it should be though - I'm thinking in the 160 range. While we're on the subject - I'm having a hard time wrapping my little brain around why the axle nut torque is so important on this job when the same bearing is used for a 2wd with no front axles. How can preload come into play here?

Good point, I don't remember exactly myself but a couple years back a fellow posted a good reasoning for why. Something about pressure on the bearing. I will have a search for the post if I have a minute.

 

[tripplec]

I am with you on that question 07EddyB.

Since as you say its only tightening the CV shaft against the bearing core. There is no load handling of the wheel bolted onto it.

 

[Dag06XLT]

Take a look at the rear right as well if making a noise turning right. I had you exact scenario a few month back but had already replace both fronts with Motorcraft. Further inspection up on a lift and it was my rear right. I could have sworn it was the front for sure; did tons of testing swerving back and forth.

 

[07EddyB]

Oil change and tire rotation due this weekend so I'll have the wheels off the ground. I've heard (as mentioned previously) that you can't really tell if the fronts are bad by looking for play in the assembly. Are the rears the same?

 

[Dag06XLT]

I could feel it while rotating the rear tires. When I compared left and right I could feel it right away. I was also getting a hum/roar from 35mph-60mph.

 

[07EddyB]

Good

Good point, I don't remember exactly myself but a couple years back a fellow posted a good reasoning for why. Something about pressure on the bearing. I will have a search for the post if I have a minute.

If you could find that I'd appreciate it I believe I have read every bearing related thread on this forum - also the ST forum.

 

[tripplec]

I can see it need to be tight but at that level as do or bust the bear level. I don't see it. Wheel lugs are a about 100ft/lbs give take for vehicles and easy for a impact air gun to hit 150ft/lbs or more. It depends but either way its tight. Nothing is moving period.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Not much luck finding it, perhaps it was something else. What you could do, is if it is that same side, you could go drop another 250 bucks on another wheel bearing, torque it to 160 lbs ft, and see if it goes again. Then you could be 100% sure if under torque can cause it or not.

 

[07EddyB]

Did some more research last night and I'm just not seeing justification on the axle nut torque. Don't get me wrong - I understand there is a stated torque and that should be followed. My issue is with the continued assertions that anything less than or greater than that exact torque will cause premature failure of the bearing. If the torque is so low that it isn't even snug then maybe. If the torque was exceeded to the point that the threads were stripped then maybe. It looks to me like the torque exists for the same reason most torque values exist - it's a function of the size and grade of the fastener and the thread pitch. Basically what that combination is rated for to be sufficiently tight without stretching the threads to excess.
I kept the last bearing I replaced - I'm going to dig it out and look at it more closely to see if anything stands out but I doubt that it will.
I hate to harp on this but I also hate to see this wisdom repeated over and over on the forums without justification. Let's get to the bottom of it and decide one way or the other.

 

[07EddyB]

Not much luck finding it, perhaps it was something else. What you could do, is if it is that same side, you could go drop another 250 bucks on another wheel bearing, torque it to 160 lbs ft, and see if it goes again. Then you could be 100% sure if under torque can cause it or not.

Actually I was thinking about this if it did turn out to be the last one I replaced. Unfortunately, with a sample size of only two bearings, the results would be far from 100% conclusive.

 

[Explorer_PL]

I have probably 4 or 5 front hub bearing in my garage that I kept for "who knows " reasons. Few are still good or almost good and could be used as a temporary replacement in case of some emergency. One is definitely shot: when I grab it and turn in my hands, I feel horrible grinding, the others I can detect "some" grinding. The new ones out of the box are smooth and hard to turn.

 

[Tech By Trade]

Yeah, I have one too, that I replaced with a white box special a few years back. It has an slight grab at one point in the rotation that is probably where the click was coming from. No play in it at all. The white box special is still running strong.

 

[Explorer_PL]

What is "white box special" ?