Explorer Started without Fob detected in vehicle!

[dco43054]

OK - this is really weird. Anyone else have it happen to them?

The post is a bit long, but I wanted to provide all the details as only one answer makes sense, at this point.

2016 Explorer XLT with Key Fob system. 10k or so miles.

I came home and pulled the car in the garage. Walked in the house, and put my fob down 20+ feet away from the Explorer. Changed clothes, took the dog out and back in, etc.

About 20 minutes after pulling into the garage, I went out and got into the Explorer, foot on brake, pressed button, started up as usual and headed out. Was going to an appointment a couple hours away. No error messages, warning messages, horn beeping, etc. occurred.

Stopped for gas an hour away. Pressed button to stop engine. No warning messages. Looked down for the fob, as I always lock the Explorer while fueling. Fob is often in the cupholder. Wasn't there. Long story short, wasn't anywhere in the vehicle I could see. "No problem" I thought, it has to be in here somewhere as it started at home, and I drove away without any warnings.

Finished fueling. Checked under seats, under and around everywhere, still couldn't find it. Since it started previously, I thought I would confirm the fob was in the vehicle, so I stepped on brake and pressed button and got the "no fob present" message. "WTF?" I thought. It started normally at home - it has to be in here somewhere.

I keep the spare fob in the vehicle in a faraday bag. it is rolled up and secured in velcro. I've tested it - the fob is totally shielded and cannot be seen by the vehicle. I have to take it out of the bag for it to work. Trust me, the bag does work as designed. The Explorer does not see the spare fob in the bag. If it did, it would have started when I pressed the brake and the start button.

So I removed the spare fob from faraday bag. Vehicle starts up immediately And before you say it must have been an intermittent issue and the bag wasn't totally shielding the spare fob so that's why it started at home, remember at no point in the first hour it did I get a message telling me the fob was missing, or one telling me no fob was present and asking if I wanted to restart the car as I went to shut it down. It acted totally like normal in both start up and shut down.

I thought maybe it fell out of my pocket when getting in the car and was close enough to start the car. If that was the case though, I should have gotten the "missing fob" message as I backed away. But no - I looked when I got home and the fob was on the counter where I left it. I walked in the house and found I left the fob on the counter. So then I went outside and tested whether the car would start with the fob 20+ feet away. It did not.

I'm at a complete loss. I received no error or warning messages or horn beeps. The faraday bag was totally shielding the spare, so it didn't sense the spare fob and start - and even if it did, it would then have given me a "no fob detected" message at some point along the way. Or it should have given me the "no fob detected" message when I went to shut down at the gas station.

So anyone ever have something like this happen to them, or hear of it? I've searched the forum and couldn't find a similar thread. The only answer that makes sense to me without any error or warning messages is that somehow it retained the fob for 20+ minutes and allowed a restart - and I don't like that answer.

 

[613GT500]

"Remnants" unlikely either, as my keyfob is attached to the left side of my pants (one of the belt loops) and I get no key present when standing outside the door and trying to turn the vehicle on (just power, not ignition).

 

[Nasty]

Mine also allows me to turn it on from remote start without using the brake.

 

[peterk9]

Mine also allows me to turn it on from remote start without using the brake.

Not the same issue. He was able to get in the vehicle and start it without having the keyfob.

Peter

 

[1995E]

Did you have anything laying on the faraday bag that could have amplified the fob signal inside the car?

I would suggest trying to start it without the fob consistently and see if this happens again because this would be a huge security issue. If you managed to start it without the fob, I would then test it for a couple of days without that second fob in the car.

Or maybe your phone is being spied on by Russians and is capture packets and retransmitting them.

 

[peterk9]

...... The only answer that makes sense to me without any error or warning messages is that somehow it retained the fob for 20+ minutes and allowed a restart - and I don't like that answer.

The time frame is 20 seconds for a restart without a valid key detected. It's in the Manual on page 167.

Peter

 

[dco43054]

Thanks guys. I'll try it again tonight under largely the same circumstances and see what happens.

I didn't change the position of the faraday bag with the fob inside in the armrest before trying to restart the vehicle at the gas station. It was in the armrest under some junk. And I have tested that when inside the bag, even laying right next to the "emergency start" slot in the armrest, the fob still cannot be "seen" by the car. If it was intermittent RF "leaking" from the bag, I would have received an error or warning message while driving. And if it was just leaking RF while in the bag, it would have started at the gas station when I stepped on the brake and pressed the button before removing the spare fob from the arm rest, taking it out of the bag, and starting the car. Instead, it gave a "no fob present" message until the fob was removed from the bag.

I do have remote start via my phone, but did not activate it, and as Peter noted, you still cannot drive away as the start sequence is not finalized and you can't release the shifter until a fob is detected.

Maybe the Russians are hacking my vehicle in retaliation for the whole WikiLeaks thing? Could be.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a software "remnant" that somehow hung in the onboard systems - though I really don't want to think that. But I have no other evidence or logical explanation with the set of circumstances from yesterday.

This is why I don't like these systems. At least with a key, or the models where you have to put the fob in a slot, you know it's present in the vehicle. I didn't even think when I started the car upon leaving the house that the key was not present somewhere in the car. But I didn't check since I don't have to check, the thing just starts if a fob is detected - and maybe when one is not present.

 

[Odrapnew]

You say it started without fob detected in your title, but then state that you didn’t get that error until you were at the gas station at which point the vehicle didn’t start. It must have “seen” the spare key. Your title is a little misleading in that regards.

I would say you are getting some leakage from the bag. If it’s intermittent, you could drive it for days with the key in the bag tucked away in the bag.

Maybe the battery in the fob was strong enough to get through the bag, but then got to the point where it doesn’t have enough power to get through the bag. Just a thought.

 

[dco43054]

You say it started without fob detected in your title, but then state that you didn’t get that error until you were at the gas station at which point the vehicle didn’t start. It must have “seen” the spare key. Your title is a little misleading in that regards.

I would say you are getting some leakage from the bag. If it’s intermittent, you could drive it for days with the key in the bag tucked away in the bag.

Maybe the battery in the fob was strong enough to get through the bag, but then got to the point where it doesn’t have enough power to get through the bag. Just a thought.

Good thoughts, but nothing in this instance points to RF leakage. If that were the case, the car would have started and then at some point displayed the warning that no fob was present. It would also have displayed the message on shut down that no fob was present and asked if I wanted to restart. It didn't do either of those.

Also, I have never received a warning when locking the car with the fob in the faraday bag. If there was leakage, it would have sensed the second fob and not locked the door in the first try.

 

[Odrapnew]

Good thoughts, but nothing in this instance points to RF leakage. If that were the case, the car would have started and then at some point displayed the warning that no fob was present. It would also have displayed the message on shut down that no fob was present and asked if I wanted to restart. It didn't do either of those.

Also, I have never received a warning when locking the car with the fob in the faraday bag. If there was leakage, it would have sensed the second fob and not locked the door in the first try.

If the leak it's intermittent, maybe the bag has worked most of the time, but it had a leak only during your trip. Long shot, but could be the cause.

The fact that the vehicle started and ran fine for most of your trip and the only time it didn't start was when it popped up the "no fob present" error leads me to believe the faraday bag isn't working as expected all of the time.

 

[peterk9]

Since we are all speculating here my guess is along the lines of an electronic abnormality and not a signal leak. I don't see an intermittent leak. To me it would leak all the time or not at all. Given that there was never any issue with locking the 2nd fob in the vehicle just seems to confirm that suspicion in my opinion.

Peter

 

[dco43054]

I did try again this evening under somewhat the same conditions. This time its didn't start. Gave a "no fob" message.

I actually have two faraday bags. After pulling into into the drive tonight, I put the primary fob into the other bag. Within seconds it gave a "no fob present" message and then gave two beeps of the horn.

Hopefully, someone else will have a similar instance and give the particulars of their experience and we can compare.

What was really the most troubling to me is that I was 60 miles away from home when I discovered the primary fob couldn't be found. If I would have just shut down the Explorer and didn't have a way to start it again. I'm glad I had the second fob onboard.

 

[Odrapnew]

Maybe there's an error in the software code where it won't check for a key under certain conditions? If it was hardware related, like the sensor in the interior failed, you'd think it would give an error.

The big question is: Can you repeat it and under what conditions? Maybe try as close as possible to repeat the process that you did when it started without the primary key and the other key in the bag.

Sorry to go back to this, but the fact that you had a key inside the vehicle(even though it was in a faraday bag) still leads me to believe it saw that key somehow. Maybe one way you could confirm is to set up your spare with MyKey features. I'm not sure what you could do, maybe limit radio volume so you can still operate the vehicle but you would know it's registering the spare? That's assuming you can repeat the issue.

Electrical gremlins suck.

 

[dco43054]

Appreciate the thought - but no, the faraday bag is bulletproof. Tried it multiple times after, and before for that matter. No signal escapes.

To follow that logic though, as it did occur to me - if there would have been enough leakage from the bag when starting the car, there would have followed at some point a "no fob detected" message when the vehicle couldn't see the fob any longer.

Since the vehicle was in the garage and unlocked, I didn't need the fob to unlock the door, so I can't correlate door locking into the situation.

I have not been able to repeat the issue. I sure would like to. I've tried multiple times since. I do have a second faraday bag, and I can repeat what happens when the both fobs are in a bag - it gives a warning that no fob is detected, and a double horn beep, after just a few seconds.

It remains a very strange instance, and I do concur with the gremlin strike. I'm guessing a software failure/hang.

 

[thefranchise713]

Keep in mind that the vehicle only looks for the fob when the door is recently opened/closed, in my experience. If you start the car with the fob, throw it out the window and drive away, you won't get No Fob Detected until the door open/closes again, or the vehicle turns off (Restart Now or Key is Needed)

Someone keep me honest, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

 

[dco43054]

Keep in mind that the vehicle only looks for the fob when the door is recently opened/closed, in my experience. If you start the car with the fob, throw it out the window and drive away, you won't get No Fob Detected until the door open/closes again, or the vehicle turns off (Restart Now or Key is Needed)

Someone keep me honest, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Mine does not care if the door is opened before showing the "no fob present" warning. Tested that last night. Had the primary fob out, then put it in a faraday bag. In 20 seconds or so, the "no fob" message popped up, and when I shut it off, it gave me the "restart" warning message when you shut down without a fob present.

Correction - tf713, you are correct. The "no fob present" message is tied to a door open. I tried it again twice today and confirmed that no message appears if the fob disappears without an opened door. On shutdown though, you get the "restart message" if no fob is detected, even if no door was opened.

 

[thefranchise713]

I have a faraday bag myself... I'll have to try this tomorrow! Thanks for the additional note.

 

[reserved50]

vehicle will only start if theres a programmed fob in the vehicle without using remote start... your radio signal bag has broken down over time and need to buy another one or double bag it, some work better than others.

 

[peterk9]

dco43054, it appears that you and I are the only ones that don't believe that the bag is the issue.

Peter

 

[dco43054]

vehicle will only start if theres a programmed fob in the vehicle without using remote start... your radio signal bag has broken down over time and need to buy another one or double bag it, some work better than others.

Sorry, but that is not the case. The spare fob is in a little larger bag that is rolled up 3 times. Nothing is escaping. It's less than 6 months old and the fob has only been in/out a handful of times. I can repeat the isolation at will. It never fails to make the RF disappear.