Explorer Started without Fob detected in vehicle!

[reserved50]

Check with Ford dealer, sounds dangerous then if you are able to repeatedly start the vehicle with no fob in the vehicle

 

[dco43054]

Check with Ford dealer, sounds dangerous then if you are able to repeatedly start the vehicle with no fob in the vehicle

That's not what I said. I said I could repeat the isolation at will. I've not been able to repeat whatever caused it to start with no fob detected.

 

[reserved50]

If the remote is out of the vehicle not inside some bag that can be affected by moisture and it hasnt happened again I wouldn't worry about it unless you want to call Ford and explain what you mentioned here, maybe they had other occurances

 

[dco43054]

dco43054, it appears that you and I are the only ones that don't believe that the bag is the issue.

Peter

Yeah - and I'm not criticizing any one else, because it was a very weird situation, and what happened should never have happened.

The key points are:
1. The vehicle started when there was no way it could sense the fob that was in the armrest
2. The vehicle did not give the restart message on shutdown, as it should if it no longer sensed the presence of a fob
3. The vehicle would not restart afterward, and did give the "no fob" message, indicating at that point it could not sense the fob that was wrapped in the bag..
4. Even though the vehicle will not give a warning of "no fob" until the door closes and there is no fob in the vehicle, it will give the restart warning if there is no fob detected on shutdown and no fob is present.

Further evidence that the spare fob in the faraday bag is not being detected is that not once since I started keeping it in the bag in the Explorer has the vehicle ever failed to lock upon exit. If the fob was detected on exit at any point over the past 5 or so months, it would not have allowed the doors to lock.

I'm just not seeing any logical set of circumstances other than some kind of software or sensor glitch that would have allowed what happened to happen.

 

[Nasty]

Not the same issue. He was able to get in the vehicle and start it without having the keyfob.

I wasn't saying it was the same issue. Just another issue with the key fob system.

 

[1995E]

The problem with this is that you have an extra variable here which is your extra FOB in a Faraday bag. Upon researching Faraday bags, some people have experienced leakage from a Faraday bag before. This could be as a result of buildup of charge since the Faraday bag is not grounded.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Hole-Faraday-Bag-Anti-tracking/dp/B0091WILY0
Is this the Faraday bag you used? If so, check the reviews, some people still had leakage with cellular. Under the right conditions, Faraday bags do leak some RF signals.

Have you retried starting the car a few times without the FoB and the Faraday bag in it?

 

[RodgeJ34]

Yep! The black hole faraday bag notoriously fails. You need one with dual paired seams. The top one with this construction is the mission darkness keyfob bag. There are a lot of these bags out there so it can be tough to find a good one. I've used that bag for a month now and it's solid.

 

[dco43054]

The problem with this is that you have an extra variable here which is your extra FOB in a Faraday bag. Upon researching Faraday bags, some people have experienced leakage from a Faraday bag before. This could be as a result of buildup of charge since the Faraday bag is not grounded.

https://www.amazon.com/Black-Hole-Faraday-Bag-Anti-tracking/dp/B0091WILY0
Is this the Faraday bag you used? If so, check the reviews, some people still had leakage with cellular. Under the right conditions, Faraday bags do leak some RF signals.

Have you retried starting the car a few times without the FoB and the Faraday bag in it?

I have this one and highly recommend it. You just have to roll it up because it is big enough to put a cellphone in. I use a piece of Velcro around the outside to make a little tube. That means the fob is inside at least two, if not 3 layers of fabric.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01AJBYQP4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It is tight as a drum. Nothing escapes. One thing you do have to get used to is putting the device inside the bag. There is a pocket in front that is outside the fabric. I put the fob in there the first time and it didn't block anything. It took me a second to realize my mistake and I've never made it again. And on the day of the incident, the car would not restart at the gas station and gave the "no fob" message, which means the bag was working.

I have tried to recreate the situation multiple time, and it has never repeated.

The spare fob is always in the faraday bag, in the explorer, all the time. I have never had any leakage from it. If I did, it would not lock the doors when I hit the outside button as it would sense the presence of the fob.

I don't get it either, guys. I've thought back to the situation and there is no logical explanation.

 

[Macnerd]

Thanks guys. I'll try it again tonight under largely the same circumstances and see what happens.

I didn't change the position of the faraday bag with the fob inside in the armrest before trying to restart the vehicle at the gas station. It was in the armrest under some junk. And I have tested that when inside the bag, even laying right next to the "emergency start" slot in the armrest, the fob still cannot be "seen" by the car. If it was intermittent RF "leaking" from the bag, I would have received an error or warning message while driving. And if it was just leaking RF while in the bag, it would have started at the gas station when I stepped on the brake and pressed the button before removing the spare fob from the arm rest, taking it out of the bag, and starting the car. Instead, it gave a "no fob present" message until the fob was removed from the bag.

I do have remote start via my phone, but did not activate it, and as Peter noted, you still cannot drive away as the start sequence is not finalized and you can't release the shifter until a fob is detected.

Maybe the Russians are hacking my vehicle in retaliation for the whole WikiLeaks thing? Could be.

I'm thinking more along the lines of a software "remnant" that somehow hung in the onboard systems - though I really don't want to think that. But I have no other evidence or logical explanation with the set of circumstances from yesterday.

This is why I don't like these systems. At least with a key, or the models where you have to put the fob in a slot, you know it's present in the vehicle. I didn't even think when I started the car upon leaving the house that the key was not present somewhere in the car. But I didn't check since I don't have to check, the thing just starts if a fob is detected - and maybe when one is not present.

How do you have remote start via phone? Just curious.

 

[dco43054]

How do you have remote start via phone? Just curious.

It's a Ford option/accessory.

It's not nearly as robust as OnStar. It will lock/unlock/start/find (turn on lights, beep horn) - but that's it.

 

[1995E]

The spare fob is always in the faraday bag, in the explorer, all the time. I have never had any leakage from it. If I did, it would not lock the doors when I hit the outside button as it would sense the presence of the fob.

I don't get it either, guys. I've thought back to the situation and there is no logical explanation.

I have remote start on my 2013 Fusion. I had one occurrence where I left the FOB inside the car and I was able to lock and unlock the doors outside the Fusion using the touch sensors on the doors. It wasn't until I was reaching for my wallet at a store that I realized the FOB was still in the cupholder. Maybe it's a glitch or a bunch of bad boolean checks on the programmers part.

If there is a glitch. I hope someone that finds it will report it to Ford so they can roll out a recall/fix.

Thanks for the recommendation on Faraday bags by the way, I've been looking for a good one of decent size for a while now.

 

[peterk9]

I have remote start on my 2013 Fusion. I had one occurrence where I left the FOB inside the car and I was able to lock and unlock the doors outside the Fusion using the touch sensors on the doors. It wasn't until I was reaching for my wallet at a store that I realized the FOB was still in the cupholder. Maybe it's a glitch or a bunch of bad boolean checks on the programmers part.

If there is a glitch. I hope someone that finds it will report it to Ford so they can roll out a recall/fix.

Thanks for the recommendation on Faraday bags by the way, I've been looking for a good one of decent size for a while now.

You can lock your fob inside the vehicle by using the Securicode touch pad. It has been discussed before and I believe it is the only way that you can do it.

Peter

 

[TObenchain]

I used the emergency fob slot in the console, and now with no fob within 50' the vehicle will start. Trying to lock the door from the inside button gives the horn beep and doors unlock even with no fob near.

 

[peterk9]

I used the emergency fob slot in the console, and now with no fob within 50' the vehicle will start. Trying to lock the door from the inside button gives the horn beep and doors unlock even with no fob near.

Welcome to the Forum.
Did you use the backup slot because the fob battery was too low? Have you changed the battery and tried locking the doors with the fob?
For some reason, the vehicle seems to still be detecting the presence of the fob. I don't recall another post similar to your situation. You can try doing a Master Reset or disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 minutes or so and see if that helps. Either way, you will likely lose some saved memory settings. If this doesn't work I would suggest checking in with the dealer.

Peter

 

[TObenchain]

Welcome to the Forum.
Did you use the backup slot because the fob battery was too low? Have you changed the battery and tried locking the doors with the fob?
For some reason, the vehicle seems to still be detecting the presence of the fob. I don't recall another post similar to your situation. You can try doing a Master Reset or disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 minutes or so and see if that helps. Either way, you will likely lose some saved memory settings. If this doesn't work I would suggest checking in with the dealer.

Peter

I used the backup slot as the fob I had with me is a spare without a battery. How do you do a MASTER RESET?

 

[peterk9]

I used the backup slot as the fob I had with me is a spare without a battery. How do you do a MASTER RESET?

It's mentioned in the Owner's Manual. Here is some parts of it. The page numbers are from the 3rd printing of the manual.

Peter