5r55e "issues" after fluid replacement and filter change

[Blown98]

Hey guys, it's been a long time since I've been on the forum. Hope all of you have been well!

I'll jump straight into it.

Funny story: About 5 months ago, I had to replace my o2 sensors. No big deal, except that I forgot to reattach the sensor bracket to the transmission. Well, I hit a bump driving about 2 weeks ago, the o2 sensor wires touched the exhaust, shorted to ground, and blew the fuse that also coincidentally controls the transmission. I had horrific torque converter shutter, terrible time trying to get it to move, etc. Naturally, I did not check the fuses. I was convinced I had lost a solenoid, computer, harness had broken, etc., as the codes we pulled were all electrical in nature(duh, it was the fuse). Anyways, after verifying that the computer, all solenoids, and harness were in spec/working order, we discovered the fuse was blown, after dropping the pan to verify things.

Now, things have been great since the fluid was changed. It blew my mind how clean this trans pan was/magnet at 243,000 miles (last service was done at 100,000 miles). I did a partial drain and fill at 205,000 miles when I drained my converter after an engine replacement. But still, It had less material stuck to the magnet than my 100,000 4l80 did.

HOWEVER, my long time issue with hesitation going into drive has gotten horrendous. I never had an issue with it NOT going into drive(it would just hesitate for about a second then kinda drop rpm into drive), but now, if it is cold(sudden cold snap in the south has us at less than 40F every day), and I do not fully warm it up before driving, I do not have any forward gears. Reverse continues to be and has always been immediate. I am assuming that the new fluid is much thinner than the old fluid when cold and I do not have the correct amount of line pressure, most likely also caused by a lazy EPC and blown valve body gaskets.

As this has only happened in the past 3 days, I have not had the time to experiment with what does and does not fix this. I have made sure to warm it up fully after it has happened twice. I did notice that if it revved to 2,000 rpm a few times(as in 2), it will go into drive. And drives fine with no other issues.

The TSB for the 5r55e valve body gaskets was never done. I am assuming, like I have for awhile, that my valve body gasket is blown and that the EPC is very lazy/needs replaced.

Am i correct in assuming that I need to follow the rebuild diary found here to fix this problem? I know there has been some debate on which kit and parts to buy, so is the parts list listed here everything I need to fully rebuild this valve body? I would like to purchase everything in one go and complete the fix ASAP.


Thanks guys.

TL;DR:
1998 4.0l SOHC 4x4 5r55e with 243,000 miles and new fluid/filter will not engage any drive gear unless the vehicle is up to operating temperature. Reverse engages normally as before trans service. Drives fine with normal shifts in every gear once in drive. Suspect blown valve body gasket and failing EPC based on research from the linked articles.

 

[transman304]

To me that is the perfect description of worn forward clutches. With that mileage and the recent fluid change. If it was working properly before the O2 wire shorting I wouldn’t condemn the VB gaskets. Maybe @JK080 wil jump in with some suggestions hopefully.
Good luck.
Brad

 

[Blown98]

I'm hoping it is not in need of a rebuild, however, being realistic, it does have nearly 250k miles on it.

But like I said, it has never had an issue going into drive(other than a hesitation of about a second). Reverse has always been quick.

I just drove home from work actually, and as before, 43F outside, fully warmed up to operating temp, and it went into drive just like it did before all of this, even the same hesitation time of a second. Drove home with the same shift characteristics its had for the past 5 years. Checked fluid level as soon as I got home after my 15 minute commute(plus 15 minute warm up), and fluid level is dead on full. Shut it off, checked level again, and the level remained the same( i had read in a different thread that that could be a converter drainback issue if the fluid level rises).

Hoping I can just replace the valve body with one of the ones from Central Valve Bodies - Aw5550sn 09g Tf60sn 5r55e 48re, Remanufactured Valve Bodies like everyone else seemed to do in the first linked thread, and throw in some new D-ring orings for the low/reverse servo, replace the OD and Intermediate servos, and tighten the bands...but that may be wishful thinking

Also, just as an aside....I'm curious if my trans filter has fallen off....i know that can cause some issues to say the least

 

[transman304]

Filler wouldn’t fall off as it’s bolted. Could very well be a clipped o ring or cracked filter. There are a lot of aftermarket China made filters that don’t meet specs being sold also. The drain back could be happening with that and after the initial prime of the pump it will work for the rest of the day. You have to check for drain back after sitting overnight by pulling stick before starting the engine. Let us know what you find.

 

[Blown98]

Alright, just a quick update. I ordered the Central Valve Bodies valve body kit (that comes with gaskets and separator plate) as well as:

D-oring for the low/reverse servo
Gasket for Low/reverse servo
AB servo
ZC servo cover
ZC servo
New Filter

In total(minus the the filter), I am sitting at around $350 with shipping. Still cheaper than a car payment!

Hopefully I didn't forget any parts for while I am in there!

I will update once I have the parts and can throw in some pics, hopefully verifying my theory about things. Sure would hate for this thing to be smoked at the low mileage of 243,000 miles

 

[JK080]

If the problem is only with drive and not reverse I wouldn't think its a drain back issue, line pressure, converter and pump have to work to back up.

It being a cold problem makes me think the seals in the forward clutch may be worn and or hardened, once it warms up a bit they start to seal and typically can work fine most of the day. Every winter I take vehicles in with this complaint and most of the time it due to seals in the forward drum.

Blown valve body gaskets typically cause problems once the fluid is hot, the fluid gets thin and pressures drop due to the leak in the hydraulic circuit.

The servos play no part in the forward engagement, they are for 2nd 3rd and 5th and the low/reverse stuff is good but so is your reverse.

 

[Blown98]

@JK080 , I see you are not far from me in Chattanooga.

Assuming you are correct with your diagnosis, or @transman304 is correct with his, and I throw these new parts in and it does not fix my issue, will the parts still be usable if you were to rebuild the trans after the fact? Filter would obviously be trash at that point.

Also, I didn't mention that I switched trans fluids. I know this may or may not be linked to my issues, as it does have 243k miles now, but I did not have this issue using Maxlife ATF as opposed to the Schaefers/Maxlife mix I have currently. Any chance that the additives in Maxlife were keeping the seals more "conditioned" than the Schaeffers is?

 

[boominXplorer]

Last I checked Valvoline max life doesn't make a mercon V fluid, it makes a "universal". If your running regular mercon then it's the extra thickness vs mercon V possibly causing the delay issue.

 

[JK080]

@JK080 , I see you are not far from me in Chattanooga.

Assuming you are correct with your diagnosis, or @transman304 is correct with his, and I throw these new parts in and it does not fix my issue, will the parts still be usable if you were to rebuild the trans after the fact? Filter would obviously be trash at that point.

Also, I didn't mention that I switched trans fluids. I know this may or may not be linked to my issues, as it does have 243k miles now, but I did not have this issue using Maxlife ATF as opposed to the Schaefers/Maxlife mix I have currently. Any chance that the additives in Maxlife were keeping the seals more "conditioned" than the Schaeffers is?

Sure you can use everything you bought during the overhaul, you just need a kit, bands, input sprag and converter at a minimum.

Not sure about those brands of fluid, I wouldn't think if one had a additive that made the seals softer and able to seal better that changing the fluid would remove that additive from the seals and make them hard again.

Some conditioners will swell the seals and can help with this condition however I dont recommend them nor use them myself. They may swell the seals to a point they start working better but it will also swell them to a point they fail too. I have been in many transmissions that have had they seals swollen from additives and can see how it affects them, it's a temporary fix for sure. Lucas makes a additive that I see people use a lot with mixed results, old school was to add brake fluid to the transmission, dont recommend that either....

If you are trying to milk every last mile out this thing try the additive, worse case is you will still have to build the transmission, just hope it dont finally let go too far away from home.

 

[Blown98]

Alright guys, have some updates!

First off, having a vacuum pump to siphon fluid out is a life saver. Definitely helped prevent the lovely shower of transmission fluid I took before by lowering the fluid level in the pan to almost nothing before dropping it. I used a vacuum pump from Lowe's called "LiquiVac". Highly suggest a very long hose.

Second, I was unable to replace the servo's on the side of the trans. I was not sent the correct parts by the transmission company. I was, however, able to remove and replace the low/reverse servo orings that were sent, as they were correct.

Now, I had some debris in the pan this time with stuff stuck to magnet. Fluid came out reddish, no doubt due to the detergents "cleaning" as things were not operating correct/slipping into drive. Same ultra fine debris on the magnet I found in the pan at the original service. Not alot, but enough to wipe off. Upon removing the valve body from the trans, I had a "large" amount "stuff" of sitting on top of the worm track in 1 particular area. Crunchy stuff, maybe about the same amount as "a pinch of salt". Felt like clutch material. Who knows where it came from, I have 243,000 miles. It may have just dislodged from somewhere else in the trans. If you look in the picture attached below, it was in the area of the brass solenoid bracket screw on the passenger side of the trans(right side in the pic).

Assuming the worst, and with no other recourse than continuing, I cleaned everything as best as possible. I wiped out the "worm tracks" in the transmission case that had dirty looking fluid in them(easy to see black fluid vs pink in this area), and disassembled the low/reverse servo to remove the fine debris that was spread throughout it(I should have taken a picture, but I had just sprayed myself with trans fluid as I pushed up on the servo to remove it). No crazy amounts of debris or anything anywhere else in the transmission or from the fluid that came out.

I then reassembled the transmission, having mixed feelings about whether or not the transmission would work, and much to my surprise, all of my issue are now GONE. It immediately drops into drive when I put in drive, as well as reverse, and shifts into all gears as it should. I have not had the chance to put many miles on it as of yet, but the first 15 or so driving around my friends shop and surrounding area have me very optimistic.

Also of note, I ditched running the Maxlife and/or Schaeffers transmission fluid. Rather than running something that is listed as "compatible", I bought actual Mercon V (God help me for running Supertech brand as it was the only one available in my area). Seems to have no issues. Whether or not the fluids had anything to do with any of this, well, that can be debated up, down, and sideways, and none of us will really have any idea.

Something else of note, I have noticed a lot of people saying that they only take 4 quarts to refill their trans after a service. I take 7. I am not sure if, because I have a 4x4, that I have a deeper pan, or some other issue. But this is the third time around with using 7 quarts to refill it. 7 quarts of fluid replacement puts me at 70% of the fluid being replaced, if the 10.3 quarts for total fill is to be believed. Maybe this has something to do with a factory option, aka "Engine super cooler package" listed on my window sticker? Or a tow option?

Anyways, thanks for the help guys! I will update with any news/relevant info , probably at week/month/6 months/year.

Edits: Fixing grammar and adding additional details

 

[974X4BLACKSPORT]

The 4x4 pan is deeper than the regular pan, also the 4x4 spec. trans filter has an extension on if to sit deeper in the pan so as to maintain fluid submersion under off road conditions on inclines and such.

 

[BruceExploder]

Alright guys, have some updates!

First off, having a vacuum pump to siphon fluid out is a life saver. Definitely helped prevent the lovely shower of transmission fluid I took before by lowering the fluid level in the pan to almost nothing before dropping it. I used a vacuum pump from Lowe's called "LiquiVac". Highly suggest a very long hose.

Second, I was unable to replace the servo's on the side of the trans. I was not sent the correct parts by the transmission company. I was, however, able to remove and replace the low/reverse servo orings that were sent, as they were correct.

Now, I had some debris in the pan this time with stuff stuck to magnet. Fluid came out reddish, no doubt due to the detergents "cleaning" as things were not operating correct/slipping into drive. Same ultra fine debris on the magnet I found in the pan at the original service. Not alot, but enough to wipe off. Upon removing the valve body from the trans, I had a "large" amount "stuff" of sitting on top of the worm track in 1 particular area. Crunchy stuff, maybe about the same amount as "a pinch of salt". Felt like clutch material. Who knows where it came from, I have 243,000 miles. It may have just dislodged from somewhere else in the trans. If you look in the picture attached below, it was in the area of the brass solenoid bracket screw on the passenger side of the trans(right side in the pic).

Assuming the worst, and with no other recourse than continuing, I cleaned everything as best as possible. I wiped out the "worm tracks" in the transmission case that had dirty looking fluid in them(easy to see black fluid vs pink in this area), and disassembled the low/reverse servo to remove the fine debris that was spread throughout it(I should have taken a picture, but I had just sprayed myself with trans fluid as I pushed up on the servo to remove it). No crazy amounts of debris or anything anywhere else in the transmission or from the fluid that came out.

I then reassembled the transmission, having mixed feelings about whether or not the transmission would work, and much to my surprise, all of my issue are now GONE. It immediately drops into drive when I put in drive, as well as reverse, and shifts into all gears as it should. I have not had the chance to put many miles on it as of yet, but the first 15 or so driving around my friends shop and surrounding area have me very optimistic.

Also of note, I ditched running the Maxlife and/or Schaeffers transmission fluid. Rather than running something that is listed as "compatible", I bought actual Mercon V (God help me for running Supertech brand as it was the only one available in my area). Seems to have no issues. Whether or not the fluids had anything to do with any of this, well, that can be debated up, down, and sideways, and none of us will really have any idea.

Something else of note, I have noticed a lot of people saying that they only take 4 quarts to refill their trans after a service. I take 7. I am not sure if, because I have a 4x4, that I have a deeper pan, or some other issue. But this is the third time around with using 7 quarts to refill it. 7 quarts of fluid replacement puts me at 70% of the fluid being replaced, if the 10.3 quarts for total fill is to be believed. Maybe this has something to do with a factory option, aka "Engine super cooler package" listed on my window sticker? Or a tow option?

Anyways, thanks for the help guys! I will update with any news/relevant info , probably at week/month/6 months/year.

Edits: Fixing grammar and adding additional details

There is nothing wrong with super tech i ran the same with no probs. Such a satisfing repair isn't it?

 

[Blown98]

Thought I would update, it's been roughly 6 months and everything is still going well! Still shifts extremely firm and is showing no signs of issues.

Thanks for the help again guys!